link

Read this article. Dublin have been getting 1 million a year as part of this deal from the ISC - whose funding comes from the people of ireland. So yes, taxpeyers money.


As for 'vast tracks of dublin not having clubs'. There are 192 adult teams in dublin spread across 12 divisions. Far more than anywhere else in the country, yet it is a small county. So if there are 'vast tracks' in dublin by your reckoning, then imagine what it is like in other, far larger counties. They are actually far better off then youngsters in places like cork, mayo, galway, donegal etc.

Finally, you make a point that non-dubs cannot fathom the sheer size of dublin, and then make a point about getting people to school -well this money is for gaa, not school, those are different things. However, to revisit the first point, this stance seems to flucuate when it suits. I actually do fathom how big dublin is compared to other counties - hence the argument, how are other teams supposed to compete with them as a single entity - an argument that you among others have roundly rejected. If it costs that much to run the county gaa system, compared to other counties, then is stands to reason that there is an imbalance there, that, objectively speaking, probably should be addressed, in the same fashion the low uptake of the game is being addressed. You cant have it every way. I agree with you, dublin is massive, a huge development opportunity for the game. As you say, new clubs could well be needed, well the other side of that is, with all this development, a new county team is needed in the exact same fashion, on the back of all this extra development that is clearly going on. If people want to develop dublin to its potential, then going forward the logical thing is to split the county and bring football to more people, while making things fairer on competing teams, that just follows on with this investment, which you lads are clearly totally behind. Yet you argue the opposite when the point of splitting the county is raised. Can you not see how that is a contradiction?


Jimbo makes the point that there is a natural selection with things and that is that. There is no point trying to change it because it cannot change. But then how can he turn around and make the point that there should be intervention when some dubs dont play gaa by using massive investment, investment that everyone is funding, and large-scale projects to get them playing and get as many people playing gaa as possible? Isnt that interfering the natural standing of things also? Just as splitting dublin is hard on dublin, isnt giving them a massive helping hand even harder on everyone else? Can you not see that your stance contradicts itself? Fair enough, I am for bringing gaa to as many people as possible also, but there are side effects to doing so, namely dublin becoming too big to compete with the other counties.

The reality is if people are behind spending money to bring gaa to the masses in dublin then they should be behind splitting dublin also. That is the natural progression of the stance you have just supported. What you lads want is spend fortunes on dublin, and then let them compete against everyone else who didnt get a penny. The reality is that is totally unfair. When all things were equal, or at least a little more equal, dublin with all their numbers werent able to match the other counties at the top table, that was the natural standing of things. That has now been changed. If jimbo had an issue with changing the natural standing of things then they wouldnt have taken the handouts. You did, therefore talk of 'the natural way of things' doesnt stand up.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 30/10/2013 12:11:02    1507359

opa01
So that's why Mayo lost this year. And last year - how much did Donegal get to stop Sam making the journey west?

Listen these childish points are only side-tracking what is a genuine issue in the gaa. Getting bogged down in who won a single game is daft. Alex ferguson made the point, he didnt want to build a top class football team, he wanted to build a top class football club, because a top football club will generate top team after top team. The point is dublin are being turned into a 'top club' while everyone else is having to make do. It is actually very similar to barca/real in spain. And we see the end result of that in a joke of a league where most teams are struggling to even stay afloat.

Investment is fine, getting youngsters playing is the way forward, but the upshot fo that is dublin will, or at least should, probably need to be split in two, or something along those lines, as a result. You cant just put all these facilities and resources in place for 1 team and allow them to carry on afterwards. I actually think, after reading through some of this stuff, that this is in fact the plan for a few years down the line.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 30/10/2013 12:21:45    1507368

The natural selection of things...

It's only natural for the GAA to invest in a county with over a quarter of our countries population living in it

Benefiting people from right across Ireland...

The importance of competing against other sports cannot be over looked

If the GAA is to remain on top then investing 7 million in say.. well lets just say Mayo.. would have been the wrong thing to do.

Last time I looked... over a 1/4 of the population of Ireland doesn't live in Mayo.

The notion of fairness comes up again.

The GAA has invested many millions into every county in this country.... you'd swear that Dublin are the only county to receive investment.

Dublin GAA is the most marketable and stand out attraction seen in the GAA

The strength of GAA in Dublin benefits everyone... make no mistake about that

It attracts the major sponsors, it brings in the TV generated revenue, look at the viewing figures when Dublin play

For the GAA to work to it's maximum... thus benefiting everyone... that 7 million was a sound and wise investment but it's not nearly enough

As an example Mayo spent 500,000 preparing 30 men. in 2013... do the maths

7 million is a small figure.

But listen it's only gone to strengthen the GAA and will continue to do so... thus benefiting every other county.

You just cant please some people.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 30/10/2013 13:13:09    1507404

It's only natural for the GAA to invest in a county with over a quarter of our countries population living in it

Oh absolutely. Just as it is only natural to assume that a quarter of the country cannot compete against 1/40 of the population. The exact same argument.


Also, you make reference to what mayo spent on their senior team. Can you quote what dublin spent please?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 30/10/2013 13:54:50    1507424

But I'll give you this themaster

I do see the angle you're taking and it has it merits

Perhaps you're a tiny bit naive and some of your proposals will never see the light of day

But if the continued growth of Dublin GAA leads to a sort of dominance]

Then that's not good for the association either... even though examples of this have happened before

Kilkenny / Cork / Kerry are already miles ahead of most... and Kerry will be investing close to 6 million themselves soon enough

Over 1 million from their sponsors

I think then that they'd have to look at it... perhaps Dublin GAA being split into two teams might be an option

But there are other options... in the interest of fairness if calls for counties to be split has certain merits then surely calling for counties to be amalgamated has to be looked at in the same vein.






I think we know hpw you feel at this stage.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 30/10/2013 14:02:06    1507427

I'd hope that we spent what we can afford to spend.

Because of our marketability and current vodafone sponsorship deal... I'm sure that would easily exceed Mayo's spend.

But that's only natural... we're a far more profitable and successful beast.

Just like Mayo spent more than say... Roscommon... it's only natural for Dublin to have the means to spend more than Mayo.

I don't know the exact figure. I haven't seen it published...

But spending 500,000 on 30 odd men... makes 7 million on 1.27 million sound like small change doesn't it.

We have to bring a bit of perspective to this 7 million figure... a wee bit of scale to a rather over blown stance.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 30/10/2013 14:12:00    1507434

Anyway enough of this...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 30/10/2013 14:21:54    1507446

Well hang on, that is a 7 million handout I am referring to. Taxpayer's money from all over ireland. Mayo raised their money. Im sure dublin raised more money via sponsorship etc, and Im sure that dublin spent more than '500,000 on a group of 30 men' themselves. The point is the unfairness of the 7 million handout. Not counties spending the money they raised themselves, so your point about roscommon etc has no relevance.

As regards amalgamating teams, it is far less feasible to do it.

Finally, as I already referred to, people shouldnt get bogged down in all irelands won. Games can turn, mistakes can happen, it wont always give a fair reflection. The point is dublin is being given handouts to turn it into a stronger gaa county than the natural heirarchy had intended. I understand that the more people playing the better, but then you fail to understand that this shouldnt unfairly affect the all ireland series, and that if dublin are being given so much help, then there is a good possibility that down the line dublin wil be split. For me, I think this is in the pipeline, they wont admit it, but it seems they are working towards it.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 30/10/2013 14:35:49    1507454

How much money has Dublin GAA generated for the GAA?

Revenue generated on the back of Dublin GAA and it's supporters has gone onto benefit every county in this country

It must run into the tens of millions..

Excuse me man... but I think we have generated a lot more than 7 million...

I don't think we have anything to feel ashamed about.... such revenue has benefited every county in this country.

It's no wonder the GAA and ISC had deemed it important to grow GAA participation in Dublin

Not only is it promoting sport.. it's just good business sense.

Ps

You're welcome. We'll continue to be the flag ship county... sure weren't you saying that revenue generated by Dublin sponsorship deals should benefit everyone... I mean...

Talk about take, take, take...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 30/10/2013 15:02:59    1507472

The average dublin fan gives no more or less than any other fan. In fact, compared to fans in tyrone for example I would say they actually give a fair bit less. We all support our teams. I dont subscribe to the idea that because there are more supporting a particular team they should get to bully others and dictate to the masses with this 'look what we do for the gaa' spiel. You go to watch football and hurling, same as the rest of us, you arent doing us an favours by going, no more than we are for you. The fact that there are more of you isnt anything that you as a fan have done more than any fan of any team. Furthermore, if there was a split there would actually be more money generated.

After all, as you say, there is a quarter of the population from dublin, well there are three quarters not fom dublin, many of whose own county are capable of filling croke park on their own, even though they only have on average one tenth your population. Therefore, I could ask the same question, look at what we the non dubs have done for dublin, we outnumber you 3 to 1, yet you get all the handouts and we are footing the bill. We can all go down the bully by number route, but then that isnt addressing the actual point, but more forcing our way onto others.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 30/10/2013 16:21:14    1507508

It's not just about buying tickets themaster

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 30/10/2013 16:35:02    1507517

We can all go down the bully by number route, but then that isnt addressing the actual point, but more forcing our way onto others.
____

So Dublin GAA is bullying you?

:)

Man honestly...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 30/10/2013 16:37:24    1507518

For the love of god enough of this allready , The master never answers comparisons to counties like Roscommon Sligo or Leitrim , for him Mayo can do what they like as long as he can put the poor mouth on when comparing to Dublin the nations capitol , he has an anti Dub agenda no amount of articles / ledger of books will ever change is mind ,his fair communist idea of things pertains to all things blue and blue only , he will have no issue with the spend if Mayo do lets say 5 -6 in a row and will gladly beat up the smaller counties in his province .
Just see the master for what he is lads , a poor mayo mans E Dunphy .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 30/10/2013 16:59:27    1507524

jimbodub
It's not just about buying tickets themaster

Im aware of that. But you are trying to say that dublin fans do so much for the gaa. What does the average dublin fan do that, say the average donegal fan doesnt? You are saying that dublin do so much for the gaa, well Im asking you what they do that fans of other counties dont.


jimbodub
So Dublin GAA is bullying you?

No, I am saying you are trying to use this stance as a means of forcing your will onto the rest of the country. 'Look what we do, where would you be without us'. From what I see you go to games, same as everyone else. Having more fans is down to geography, not the averge dub fan on the street doing more than his country counterpart.


Damothedub
For the love of god enough of this allready , The master never answers comparisons to counties like Roscommon Sligo or Leitrim

I have actually addressed that point numerous times. There are several reasons. For a start it isnt feasible to join up all other teams. The symantics just wouldnt work. That isnt the case with dublin, people would actually be closer to home as regards training etc. Secondly, leitrim have 100 thousand less than the average, dublin have 1.2 million more than the average. Obviously instead of trying to join everyone up to match dublin with wholesale changes in 20 odd counties, the logical and reasonable thing to do is to split dublin, i.e 1 change in 1 county. You could easily support it, and now with all this outside handouts, on top of what you are already bringing in, it has gone to the point of being ridiculous. At the end of the day, you have 192 adult teams, you are getting funded out your ears and have a ridiculous amount of players. It just isnt fair. Im for investment, but the other side of that should be the requirement of dublin being seperated. Otherwise all that investment is doing is ruining the all ireland football championship as a competition.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 30/10/2013 18:04:21    1507550

he will have no issue with the spend if Mayo do lets say 5 -6 in a row and will gladly beat up the smaller counties in his province .

Damo if we got a load of funding from the gaa, taxpayers and whoever else, got all our games at home and the result won 5-6 in a row I would happily say we are cheating the rest of the country and it should be stopped. Simply because we would be. However, if we done it off our own bat, without all the cash, the home games, the high numbers etc then that would be a different story, as it would be if one of the dublin teams won sam after a split.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 30/10/2013 18:08:13    1507551

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 9302

You cannot compare density of people to actual geographical area, 192 clubs is meaningless if they are serving per head of population much bigger numbers than anywhere else in the country. Ballymun is bigger in population terms than a lot of towns in Ireland and are served much less by GAA sports or any sport for that matter and that's were tax payers money comes in. ISC money isn't just handed over to the GAA/FAI/IRFU etc it has to go on specific projects and target area's.

Dublin has a huge deficit in large parts of the City/County in terms of GAA profile and numbers playing, that is where a lot of the money is being invested. Having successful county teams helps hugely in bringing people into the GAA. The GAA recognises (while most of the country outside can't) ultimately the sustainability will only come from Dublin having the numbers to help keep the whole organisation afloat and growing. You might not like it, I might not like it, but its the reality.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4954 - 30/10/2013 18:38:38    1507557

So why stop at splitting Dublin in 2? Is that making it any fairer?

I don't believe any county with a population of less than 100k has won an All-Ireland Football since 1982. Splitting Dublin in 2 is not going to redress the balance. Should Dublin be split into 4 or 8? Should Antrim, Down and Cork be split in 2 if it's the population that makes the difference?

Should Sligo and Roscommon combine?

Personally I'd prefer sorting out the Provincial Championships so that there are 4 eights rather than the current lobsided championships that allow Mayo or Galway and Kerry or Cork to waltz into an All-Ireland QF without breaking sweat while Ulster teams have to slog it out every year to get to a Provincial final.

If Dublin won 5 or 6 All-Irelands in a row then there might be some reasoning to the argument to look at an alternative but that hasn't happened yet and I don't see it happening any time soon.

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 521 - 30/10/2013 19:23:22    1507570

Well said opa01

At last some sense after the usual anti Dublin tripe from the Master. Well said the man from Cavan!
5 in a row 5 in a row - ah well I can dream!!!!

fingalman (Dublin) - Posts: 233 - 30/10/2013 20:16:27    1507581

Fair enough arock. When you used the term 'vast swards' I assumed you were referring to area. I agree with what you are saying, in fact it is part ofwhy I have come to the conclusion I have. Geographics are changing. Money is being pushed into dublin because it wouldnt make sense not to. However, with that comes changes to parameters around inter-county football also. Surely you can see this?

opa01. I have already addressed why amalgamating teams doesnt make sense. Again I find myself making the point to you - if you actually read the threads you wouldnt be making the same mistakes over and over. You make the assumption that the whole point revolves around jealousy or something along those lines. Again, if you read the posts you would see that there is basis to what I am saying and that your assuptions are far from the truth.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 30/10/2013 21:05:42    1507596

How can you completely ignore common sense!

Most of TheMaster's observations are torn apart when scrutinised!

Amalgamation is not a good idea but splitting the market leading brand in two is an idea?

There's a complete ignorance that Mayo hold financial and numerical superiority over many other counties in their Provence?

Dublins lack of success over the past twenty years...with the financial clobber and population they've had....explain that!?

Right Im gonna put this into simple maths....

If you have less people, less costs.

More people, more costs!

And if you are playing in two codes and trying to be successful......the costs get bigger.....more quickly.

500000 euro spent on one team......and you question Dublin!?

And let's go back to the population thing......take Finglas ...... One GAA club close to twenty soccer clubs....so put that into action across the county Dublin has far lower playing numbers that you'd think.

Look, you don't like Dublin but all your points fall down when scrutinised! You have no knowledge of the complex attritional nature of sport and player access in Dublin. Your headline arguments are dismissed by Dublin posters as you are black and white......no grey areas or context.

People can't take you seriously.

Forget about Dublin for one second......answer the following question......

Kerry and Kilkenny have dominated their respective codes for the last 15 years, they are obviously funded better than most other counties and only really take one code seriously....

What would you do to counteract this obvious imbalance?

TheMaster there you are......seriously, I'd like to know your thoughts.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 30/10/2013 21:18:24    1507599