This is meant to be a constructive criticism so I hope the Mayo lads on here don't take it the wrong way.

Mayo are a very good team with some excellent players. They blew a lot of teams away this year so they weren't under a lot of pressure in most of their games.

However I've noticed with Mayo that when the DO come under pressure, some of their forwards resort to going to ground very easily (in my opinion) looking for free kicks. Alan Dillon is the worst offender but he's not the only one. This happened on Sunday, against Tyrone and against Donegal last year, also against Dublin in the semis last year.

Now its all well and good clipping a few points over the bar from free kicks but I think this tendency points to a mental weakness in the Mayo attacking philosophy. Why not stay on your feet if you can and try to keep the attack going, see if you can craft a goal chance?

The other side-effect of this approach is the difference in the crowd reaction and support when you score from play versus score from a free kick. A great score from play lifts the crowd and that transfers back to the team.

Mayo got none of that in the second half on Sunday - apart from when they scored the goal.

By contrast Dublin got a huge lift from seeing Cian O Sullivan, Paddy Andrews, Bernard Brogan and Paul Flynn all raise the white flags with some cracking points from play. Morale boosting fuel for the team as a whole.

Like I said, I think this is a mentality issue, for some reason Mayo don't go for the jugular when they are under a lot of pressure. If that had've been Gooch taking the final kick do you think he would have tapped it over the bar after making up his mind about it for 40 seconds?

Anyway, just my tuppence worth.

Beacaire Gorm (Dublin) - Posts: 597 - 25/09/2013 13:25:37    1489171

I think you're a bit off the mark there, Barnowl. Ros have rarely had a team capable of beating Mayo in the past 20 years, and they certainly don't have one currently. Galway have their work cut out for them too, and probably won't threaten Mayo until we return to Div 1 status, which is unlikely to happen next year with Donegal, is it Down?, Monaghan & Meath arriving in Div2. Of course, Ros or Galway might bate Mayo, if Mayo head into a decline next season. It's up to Mayo really. If they maintain 2012/2013 levels into 2014, they should have no problem whatsoever winning another Connacht title next year.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4321 - 25/09/2013 13:51:54    1489190

Cork lost the 2007 final, 2008 QF 2009 Final and won it in 2010

Dublin Lost the 2006 Semi Final, 2007 Semi Final, 2008 Quarter Final, Hammered in the 2009 Quarter Final, Unlucky to lose the 2010 semi by 1 point and won in 2011.

Kerry Lost 2002 final to Armagh lost the 2003 semi in the "PUKE Football" semi, won 2004, lost 2005, won 2006 & 2007 lost 2008 and came back to win in 2009

It can be seen fro0m above that teams can come back after dissapointment.

You will win nothing feeling sorry for yourself, get back on the Horse and get back in the race that is what you have to do.


What Dublin Kerry and Cork did extremely well was they dusted themselves down, reassesed changed a few personnel in some cases changed style and came back stronger and won.

Mayo need to do likewise if the core of the team is good then I feel you can come back. I think the Core of the Mayo team is string enough to come back. We need a Stopper centre back, A mobile option at middle field, a repleacement for the great servant Alan Dillon and reliable sorer from play if we can fill these positionds over the winter months or within two years we will win the all ireland. If it goes longer than 2 years the core of the team will start to break down from "Mileage on the Clock".

belmay (Mayo) - Posts: 172 - 25/09/2013 14:12:13    1489208

Kerry didn't come back stronger in the years they won, belmay. They lost to Tyrone in 2003, 2005, 2008. Call it PUKE FOOTBALL if you like, but I saw some of the greatest games I've ever seen in the 2005 season. In contrast, Kerry beat Mayo & Cork every time they played them in Croke Park between 2000-2009, and correct me if I'm wrong there. You're right though, Mayo need to stop whinging about losing all-irelands and 62 years etc. It's just a burden on players at this stage. Instead they should be celebrating having one of the top teams in the country, a team that has every chance of winning any of the next few all-irelands, if they maintain their hunger & desire, much as Kerry have done for the past 15 seasons or more.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4321 - 25/09/2013 14:26:32    1489220

Of course Mayo can come back from this.How could it be the end when only one lousy kick of a ball was the difference. Cork lost 2 to win 2 in the late'80s. The Dubs lost '92 and '94 before their day in the sun in '95..It can be done.Mistakes were made all over the field by everyone bar CLUXTON.These things happen in big games. I for one would have taken off Dillon or McLoughlin before Freeman especially if the high ball to the inside forward line was to continue. 1-3 of the Dubs first half tally was avoidable(bad free fom Cafferky, Hennelly neither staying on his line or clearing ball and everyone in his way for the goal, kmcs misplaced pass which led to a point and an umpire who gave a 45 instead of a wide). I'm not criticising any of them as I couldn't possibly understand the burden of expectation on all involved, merely stating that mistakes can happen. The important thing is that mistakes are learned from and we as supporters give this group of young men the support and respect they deserve. I agree with most comments on this thread but somebody seems to think Kerry were the second best team in the championship.. Based on the fact that we lost to Dublin by 1 and Kerry lost by 6 I would have to disagree.. Anyway well done to the Dubs, ye hung in there in the first half and won the game in minutes 36-55. Thanks especially to the Dub who handed my apparently inconsolable young lad a Crunchie and made him smile on the way out.. It's the small things that make a great impression.

ceefarr (Mayo) - Posts: 39 - 25/09/2013 14:27:27    1489221

The whole thing about how long it has been is a bit silly. Dublin hurlers have not won an All Ireland since 1938. It is not even on the radar in terms of the current team. Might as well have been 1338. Not a factor at all so perhaps those of you pointing to its prominence in the Mayo psyche have a point. Most of Mayo players would barely have a memory of 1996 never mind any connection with 1951. Daly made a reference to 1914 and Biddy earley after they won in 1995, but that team was based on current and recent hatred of Tipp and others, not on some piece of folklore!

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 25/09/2013 14:35:42    1489225

ceefarr
County: Mayo
Posts: 8

1489221
Of course Mayo can come back from this.How could it be the end when only one lousy kick of a ball was the difference. Cork lost 2 to win 2 in the late'80s. The Dubs lost '92 and '94 before their day in the sun in '95..It can be done.Mistakes were made all over the field by everyone bar CLUXTON.These things happen in big games. I for one would have taken off Dillon or McLoughlin before Freeman especially if the high ball to the inside forward line was to continue. 1-3 of the Dubs first half tally was avoidable(bad free fom Cafferky, Hennelly neither staying on his line or clearing ball and everyone in his way for the goal, kmcs misplaced pass which led to a point and an umpire who gave a 45 instead of a wide). I'm not criticising any of them as I couldn't possibly understand the burden of expectation on all involved, merely stating that mistakes can happen. The important thing is that mistakes are learned from and we as supporters give this group of young men the support and respect they deserve. I agree with most comments on this thread but somebody seems to think Kerry were the second best team in the championship.. Based on the fact that we lost to Dublin by 1 and Kerry lost by 6 I would have to disagree.. Anyway well done to the Dubs, ye hung in there in the first half and won the game in minutes 36-55. Thanks especially to the Dub who handed my apparently inconsolable young lad a Crunchie and made him smile on the way out.. It's the small things that make a great impression.


A very simplistic way of looking at things. Not that I give a rat's ass about who is the 2nd best team in Ireland but I think most observers would agree that Kerry gave Dublin more of a test than Mayo.

Cute_Kerry_Hoor (Kerry) - Posts: 2518 - 25/09/2013 14:42:24    1489230

Win Connacht title next year. Win our quarter final against team from outside top 4. Beat Kerry in AI Semi Final (not a forgone conclusion but very possible). Another All Ireland Final......

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 25/09/2013 14:46:28    1489232

hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 5249

1489225
The whole thing about how long it has been is a bit silly. Dublin hurlers have not won an All Ireland since 1938. It is not even on the radar in terms of the current team. Might as well have been 1338. Not a factor at all so perhaps those of you pointing to its prominence in the Mayo psyche have a point. Most of Mayo players would barely have a memory of 1996 never mind any connection with 1951. Daly made a reference to 1914 and Biddy earley after they won in 1995, but that team was based on current and recent hatred of Tipp and others, not on some piece of folklore!
_____________________
I think you are right in this hurlingdub, this obsession with 1951, to win just once, and the rest is the equivalent of Jacob Marleys chains around the neck of Mayo football. I mean it took over 100 years before we won our first ever AI for pity sake, I don't hear Cavan fans obsessing over the length of time since their last win, there are no Kildare posters with the username 28Longago. Mayo have to start living in the now and stop thinking about a bygone era, they've been in more AI finals in the last 25 years than Tyrone have been in their entire history, they should have won at the very least one of those by now and they know it.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 25/09/2013 14:48:47    1489235

Mayo will definitely be back and the win will be all the sweeter. Look at Dublin in the early 90's.beaten by Donegal and down in finals, a semi final loss to Derry with a last minute point sandwiched in the middle and then just about crawling over the line against Tyrone in '95.I can see Mayo going the same way.its so close for them.they will get over line in the near future.no point stopping now.

sugerloaf (Dublin) - Posts: 25 - 25/09/2013 14:50:58    1489236

Of course they'll be back. They will be one of the main challengers for the all-Ireland again next year. They are capable of beating any team on their day and no team will fancy drawing them in latter stages of the championship.

Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 1037 - 25/09/2013 14:56:03    1489241

Mayo will be back in the quarter-finals next year anyway for a start. Hard to see them being beaten in Connacht unless the last 2 years have really taken a toll on them which is possible I guess. Galway improved quite a bit after the disasterous showing against Mayo in May and they should improve again next year but realistically it's hard to see them beating Mayo up in Castlebar. It might be 2015 until this Galway team are ready to beat them. Roscommon even though often the match for Mayo and Galway at underage very rarely seem to be able to beat either Mayo or Galway at senior over the past decade or so. Sligo with a new coach might do something but I'm not sure if they have the young players coming though in comparison to the other counties.

Marooned (Galway) - Posts: 2408 - 25/09/2013 15:40:49    1489282

What continues to amaze me is the Media's continued perserverance with the myth that the country starts and enda in our capital

We ve have heard nothing all year except Dublin's conveyor belt of talent well let me point out the underage sucess of the last number 7 years giving players a maximum age profile in 2014 of 26-28 years when most county players are considered to be at there peak

2006 Roscommon Minor Champions Runners up Kerry Mayo U21 Champions Runners up Cork
2007 Galway Minor Cnampions Runners Up Derry Cork U21 champions Runners up Laois
2008 Tyrone Minor Champions Runners Up Mayo Kerry U21 champions Runners up Kildare
2009 Armagh Minor Champions Runners Up Mayo Cork U21 champions Runners up Laois
2010 Tyrone Minor Champions Runners Up Cork Dublin U21 champions Runners up Donegal
2011 Tipperary Minor Champions Runners Up Dublin Galway U21 champions Runners up Cavan
2012 Dublin Minor Champions Runners Up Meath Dublin U21 champions Runners up Roscommon
2013 Mayo Minor Champions Runners Up Tyrone Galway U21 champions Runners up Cork

That reade to me between Minor & U21 final appearance since 2006

Dublin 4
Mayo 4
Cork 4
Tyrone 3
Galway 3
Kerry 2
Roscommon 2
Laois 1
Down 1
Cavan 1
Derry 1
Meath 1
Kildare 1
Armagh 1
Tipperary 1
Donegal 1

Thayt does not appear like the LOP SIDDED story of Dublin Underage dominance that the media is feeding to the country. Yes I agree that Dublin have been impressive with 4 appearnces in undrage finals, producing some fine young teams

But this leads me to believe that the convyor belts in

Cork 4
Mayo 4
Tyrone 3
Galway 3
Kerry 2
Roscommon 2

Are not rusty ole mechanisms grinding along. Imstead I would suggest that they are well oiled machines not getting due recognition. Due to the biased media covergae afforded to our Capital Folk.

belmay (Mayo) - Posts: 172 - 25/09/2013 16:31:06    1489335

People talking about how other teams like Cork, Dublin and Donegal came back after defeats are missing the point, Mayo are not Dublin, Cork or Donegal.Watching them last Sunday and wanting them to win I was appalled by the mistakes they made and the lack of urgency from some of their players.O Connor dilly dallying from frees, Conroy running into cul de sacs,invisible men Dillon & AOS, McLouglin's non effectiveness and Moran gesturing at hill 16 to name just some.
If they get back to the final next year can you imagine the pressure they will be under? To lose 3 in a row? They will find some way to lose it believe me, other teams find a way to win.The fact is Dublin didn't play well last Sunday, their younger players froze, that will not happen again,it was there for the taking last Sunday ,Mayo got a major break when they got the goal but they were unable to take advantage of it.

Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 25/09/2013 16:35:04    1489341

Mayo will be back don't see this as the end of the road for them. To loose a game by a point where so many of their players had poor games must be heart breaking. AOS, Dillon, McLoughlin, Freeman, Conroy, Varley and Carolan were all poor and contributed little between them. With so many players been well below par and only losing by a point does indicate this is a very good side.

The average age of their starting 15 was only slightly older than the Dublin starting 15.

They should breeze through their province which only leaves them 2 games from another final. They need to find a forward from somewhere although if they don't I still don't see them been that far away.

TheWestIsAwake (UK) - Posts: 529 - 25/09/2013 16:50:43    1489354

Belmay - can understand the sentiment but I wouldn't really count minor as a lot of minors drift off. I think the U21 is more appropriate for comparison.

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 539 - 25/09/2013 17:06:15    1489373

Mental Fragility is not something a team can bounce back from, its not something 'learned' on the training pitch!
The fans need to get off their backs and stop putting pressure and hype on these lads or the deamons will remain!.....The 'this is our year' and 'if we dont do it now we'll never do it' stuff has to stop in mayo!!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 25/09/2013 19:18:25    1489481

Snufalufagus
County: Dublin
Posts: 6925

1489481
Mental Fragility is not something a team can bounce back from, its not something 'learned' on the training pitch!
The fans need to get off their backs and stop putting pressure and hype on these lads or the deamons will remain!.....The 'this is our year' and 'if we dont do it now we'll never do it' stuff has to stop in mayo!!




The fans have no effect on teams in the modern game. There is pressure for sure to win, but it doesnt really mater who is saying what on the ground.

The issue with Mayo is consistency. They are good enough to win an all ireland for sure, but not consistent enough in performances thru the year. This is very much reflected in the fact that mayo beat both dublin and donegal in the last 2 years, as well as losing to them in the final. The difference between winning an all ireland and being champions is consistency, and you need a wee bit of luck as well as holding all the aces for that.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3853 - 25/09/2013 19:43:05    1489496

Mayo will be back. They have the balls to come back. Before this thread transcends into a moral kicking of Mayo, I say to all the genuine Mayo to get behind your county again in the new year. You lost by a single point other days you could of won by a point. I hope you have your day in September. Ignore all the s**te that will get thrown at yis over the coming months.

bluedubstar (Dublin) - Posts: 835 - 25/09/2013 20:56:06    1489565

They should be back in the mix-up anyway. Can't see anyone else winning Connacht for a few years at least.. The top teams only need to win three big games, sometimes less depending on the draw.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 25/09/2013 21:29:07    1489594