The economic point is very valid, dahayeser. If a fraction of the money Irish English/Scottish soccer fans pumped into English/Scottish soccer was pumped into Irish soccer it would help the Irish economy greatly - and in particular these clubs who as I understand it are struggling greatly to survive in this economic climate. Its a personal question for the concience of Irish English/Scottish soccer fans as to how they spend their money but one I feel they should think about.

In an ideal world they'd abandon their Manchester and Liverpool jerseys for their county jersey but i'd settle for a change to a Shamrocks or a Shels jersey!

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 13/09/2013 09:41:14    1481220

13/09/2013 08:59:47
Culann
I'd strongly disagree with this for two reasons. The first can be seen here. It is a list of average attendances in a year for Scottish clubs playing in the main league. You will see that half of these teams averaged under 6,000 for the home games for the league - and don't forget this a proffessional league and these players get paid a wage.

http://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/sco-premier-league-2012-2013/1/
Current figures for 2103-2014. Isn't google deadly!
http://espnfc.com/stats/attendance/_/league/sco.1/scottish-premiership?cc=5739
The seocond reason is a population based reason. The Scots support their own league first and foremost and that is why they attract the crowds above. I can only suggest were the Irish to support Irish soccer the very least that would happen would be that these attendances would be matched, which would then have a knock on effect on the quality of the league and who knows where things coulg go from there! Our population sizes are similar enough. I think there is an estimated 4.5 million in the 26 counties and I think the population of the Scotland isjust over 5 million. If you brought the North into it think what you could do then. There is absolutelty no reason we couldn't have a league that is at least as big as the Scottish one but there is no appetite in Ireland for it. We as a nation would just prefer to drole over English soccer.

I would not agree with that in the slightest. As I said above with hard work, the right attitude and the the appetite for it is the only way for the FAI to promote their games in Ireland but they either fail or refuse to do it. Sure according to very regular comments in the media it is apparent that Irish soccer clubs have not much respect for the FAI.
I will counter with this. Yes most teams average a crowd of 6k or so but they are helped so much in every way by the Glasgow duo making so much money as it filters down to them
For The Scottish their domestic soccer league is the main sport and has little competition in most of the country with rugby only really strong in Edinburgh, Glasgow and the border region with England.
There wouldn't be enough support in Ireland to support a professional league even if most premier league supporters switched allegiance to irish sides.
I don't know a huge amount about dealings with FAI but know enough but the FAI are doing an ok job nowhere near perfect but good enough at same time

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 13/09/2013 09:50:46    1481225

In fairness to Culann lads he's not far wrong on one thing.

There's no real reason why the LoI cannot be an awful lot bigger than it is but unfortunately there just isn't an appetite there from the Irish soccer fans for a good strong domestic league. It's a shame really.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13803 - 13/09/2013 09:52:24    1481227

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 6343

1481227 In fairness to Culann lads he's not far wrong on one thing.

There's no real reason why the LoI cannot be an awful lot bigger than it is but unfortunately there just isn't an appetite there from the Irish soccer fans for a good strong domestic league. It's a shame really.

On one thing?? Thanks a lot!

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 13/09/2013 09:56:08    1481232

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 5726

I will counter with this. Yes most teams average a crowd of 6k or so but they are helped so much in every way by the Glasgow duo making so much money as it filters down to them

Whose to say we couldn't have a glasgow two of our own! Sure wasn't thjere talkof a Wimbledon team coming to Ireland - a very small club now i'm told. Crowd averages of 6,000 i'd imagine would be realistic for most clubs if the support was there from the public and from the FAI but the way I see it is isn't there - and the media have to take a huge portion of blame for this.

For The Scottish their domestic soccer league is the main sport and has little competition in most of the country with rugby only really strong in Edinburgh, Glasgow and the border region with England.

True but according to surveys carried out and posted on this forum English soccer is the most supported game by Irish people!! Ahead of Gaelic games and rugby. By the success and big crowds of GAA and rugby you'd imagine that you would get 5,000 at an Irish game! Take into account that regulary 5,000 turn up at Parnell Park for Dublin O' Byrne Cup games.

It just shows how far ahead the GAA and IRFU (hopefully they won't ruin it all by getting distracted by professionalism and downside to professionalism over the years ahead - you know the reasons for my caution from other threads on this site) are ahead of the FAI for the hearts ansd minds of the Irish people.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 13/09/2013 10:19:31    1481250

13/09/2013 10:19:31
Culann
Whose to say we couldn't have a glasgow two of our own! Sure wasn't thjere talkof a Wimbledon team coming to Ireland - a very small club now i'm told. Crowd averages of 6,000 i'd imagine would be realistic for most clubs if the support was there from the public and from the FAI but the way I see it is isn't there - and the media have to take a huge portion of blame for this.Ah Culann we could never ever in any way have had or will ever have a Glasgow two of our own. Scotland has same population as this island but has no GAA to contend with and plenty of the top scots play in Scotland not the case here where most of the best players don't play in Ireland and are playing in Ireland and Scotland as well as elsewhere. crowd averages of 6k wouldn't be realistic and even if clubs were getting crowds like that it wouldn't be enough unless there was substantial tv coverage and money from that.
Mediapeople cover what their readers want and what their audience wants

True but according to surveys carried out and posted on this forum English soccer is the most supported game by Irish people!! Ahead of Gaelic games and rugby. By the success and big crowds of GAA and rugby you'd imagine that you would get 5,000 at an Irish game! Take into account that regulary 5,000 turn up at Parnell Park for Dublin O' Byrne Cup games.English soccer

It just shows how far ahead the GAA and IRFU (hopefully they won't ruin it all by getting distracted by professionalism and downside to professionalism over the years ahead - you know the reasons for my caution from other threads on this site) are ahead of the FAI for the hearts ansd minds of the Irish people. IRFU wont ruin anything by being distracted by professionalism. haven't don't it in the nigh on 20 years of professionalism and as IRFU is by nature a conservative organisation will not in the future. more upsides than downsides to professionalism

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 13/09/2013 14:02:26    1481485

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 5731

Ah Culann we could never ever in any way have had or will ever have a Glasgow two of our own. Scotland has same population as this island but has no GAA to contend with and plenty of the top scots play in Scotland not the case here where most of the best players don't play in Ireland and are playing in Ireland and Scotland as well as elsewhere.

Look, as I've said numerous times i'm a GAA man with no interest in the actual game of soccer. I'm just discussing/arguing here for economic and patriot reasons mainly. If an Irish person is going to follow soccer and buy jerseys i'd just prefer to see them wearing a Shamrocks jersey rather than a Manchester one. If people who support soccer in Ireland don't want a league and have no hope or desire for the promotion of Irish soccer in Ireland well than thats fair enough - but I find that very strange that people would rather see a soccer league of another ciountry thrive and not be bothered about the soccer league of their own country. Just read what I am saying over and over again and think about it.

crowd averages of 6k wouldn't be realistic and even if clubs were getting crowds like that it wouldn't be enough unless there was substantial tv coverage and money from that.
Mediapeople cover what their readers want and what their audience wants

This whole thing would have to be built from the bottom. With added attendances would come better sponsorship, media etc...i'd imagine. Is that not how the GAA and IRFU built themselves up? I never said what I am proposing would be easy

English soccer

Sorry, soccer in general but its a bare minimum that support Irish soccer so I can only assume its English soccer they support.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 13/09/2013 14:27:30    1481520

13/09/2013 14:27:30
Culann
Look, as I've said numerous times i'm a GAA man with no interest in the actual game of soccer. I'm just discussing/arguing here for economic and patriot reasons mainly. If an Irish person is going to follow soccer and buy jerseys i'd just prefer to see them wearing a Shamrocks jersey rather than a Manchester one. If people who support soccer in Ireland don't want a league and have no hope or desire for the promotion of Irish soccer in Ireland well than thats fair enough - but I find that very strange that people would rather see a soccer league of another ciountry thrive and not be bothered about the soccer league of their own country. Just read what I am saying over and over again and think about it.
This whole thing would have to be built from the bottom. With added attendances would come better sponsorship, media etc...i'd imagine. Is that not how the GAA and IRFU built themselves up? I never said what I am proposing would be easy

Sorry, soccer in general but its a bare minimum that support Irish soccer so I can only assume its English soccer they support.
I don't in any way how patriotism can come into this debate as it is totally irrelevant in the whole with the world that soccer has become at the very top level.
I don't think people who follow soccer here don't want a league here to thrive. they are just engrained into English soccer and have been for generations. when most of the top players always look to England and the media looks to England for soccer and how the English league is so so strong it will mean irish domestic soccer is nowhere near as strong as it could and never will be.

On attendances how would you build from the bottom.
How would you propose to build attendances. Limerick moved to Thomond Park in hope it would increase attendances until their own ground in Markets Field is ready and it hasn't exactly brought in huge crowds. But GAA and Rugby don't have to worry any way as much as soccer about players moving abroad. If any soccer player playing in Ireland really rates himself at all he'll look abroad to clubs elsewhere obviously that isn't poss with GAA and doesn't happen with rugby.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 13/09/2013 14:53:20    1481546

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 5732


I don't in any way how patriotism can come into this debate as it is totally irrelevant in the whole with the world that soccer has become at the very top level.

In these challenging economic times it would be a great help if people bought Irish instead of throw their 60 or 70 euro or whatever the cots of gersey over to England. Thats one way. Also I think it is more patriotic for Irish people to support Irish ratrher than English.

I don't think people who follow soccer here don't want a league here to thrive. they are just engrained into English soccer and have been for generations. when most of the top players always look to England and the media looks to England for soccer and how the English league is so so strong it will mean irish domestic soccer is nowhere near as strong as it could and never will be.

English golf is very strong but Irish people still support Lowry, Clarke and Harrington.

On attendances how would you build from the bottom.

Its easy. In the morning soccer lovers turn around and say i'm going down to the local soccer team with a couple of mates to watch them play in Dalymount Park to give them a bit of support and who knows I might even get to see the next Kevin Moran playing. At the game by a club scarf, a programme and a hot dog. You might even enjoy the night out.

Limerick moved to Thomond Park in hope it would increase attendances until their own ground in Markets Field is ready and it hasn't exactly brought in huge crowds.

Out of matter of interest did it ioncrease its attendances at all?

But GAA and Rugby don't have to worry any way as much as soccer about players moving abroad. If any soccer player playing in Ireland really rates himself at all he'll look abroad to clubs elsewhere obviously that isn't poss with GAA and doesn't happen with rugby.

Soccer plays wouldn't have to move abroad if their league was good. Its a vicious circle but where to begin??

Look pal, its good that were teasing out to opposite view points here but I think we are starting to repeat ourselves. I don't think either of us are for budging. Is it time to let it lie??

Either way, as I said before with the great hurling and football year we've just had I wouldn't be surprsied to see our games continue to thrive over the next few yaers and long may it continue.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 13/09/2013 15:18:32    1481564

13/09/2013 15:18:32
Culann
In these challenging economic times it would be a great help if people bought Irish instead of throw their 60 or 70 euro or whatever the cots of gersey over to England. Thats one way. Also I think it is more patriotic for Irish people to support Irish ratrher than English.
English golf is very strong but Irish people still support Lowry, Clarke and Harrington.
Its easy. In the morning soccer lovers turn around and say i'm going down to the local soccer team with a couple of mates to watch them play in Dalymount Park to give them a bit of support and who knows I might even get to see the next Kevin Moran playing. At the game by a club scarf, a programme and a hot dog. You might even enjoy the night out.
Soccer plays wouldn't have to move abroad if their league was good. Its a vicious circle but where to begin??

Look pal, its good that were teasing out to opposite view points here but I think we are starting to repeat ourselves. I don't think either of us are for budging. Is it time to let it lie??

Either way, as I said before with the great hurling and football year we've just had I wouldn't be surprsied to see our games continue to thrive over the next few yaers and long may it continue
It is all nice and patriotic of you to say buy irish but when irish quality is nothing on how good other products are why should you buy irish.
Irish football has always been linked in a big way with England. why should so many fans look to support irish clubs in the same way as they do English clubs when so many of players playing in irish league will immediately jump ship to play in England if given the opportunity.

Your analogy of golfers is totally different with golf an individual sport not team sport, players based in Ireland and based all over the world playing all over world unlike soccer which has teams based primarily in their league in 1 country.

It would be good to see more at irish soccer club games, fai league but building from bottom will only go a tiny bit with the hold the premiership has on irish soccer fans and will do nothing in terms of changing that in the long term.

On attendances of Limerick on change to Thomond. I haven't a clue about any change in average attendances.
Their isn't enough of a market for a bigger pro league in Ireland. Market not there even if many of the English clubs soccer supporting irish people supported clubs here with top players always looking to play in better league abroad and fans looking at better, bigger league abroad.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 13/09/2013 15:48:36    1481596

Maybe im a bit slow on the uptake but where does the name "second captains" come from?

rising1916 (Cavan) - Posts: 187 - 13/09/2013 18:59:52    1481729

Not sure but it's probably an in-house joke, it's referenced in the intro

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1363 - 13/09/2013 19:08:58    1481736

Kieran McGeeney is the main guest on tonight's show. For Meath minor Shane Horgan will also make an appearance.

gaelicgab (USA) - Posts: 878 - 18/09/2013 15:35:09    1484479

*Former

gaelicgab (USA) - Posts: 878 - 18/09/2013 15:35:50    1484481

long story short, its a piss take on Steve Staunton getting thick with Ken in an interview during his reign as Ireland boss
Its also their twitter handle

Ken asked if Stan saw Shay Given as some kinda leader, like a second captain if you will
Stan replied in an obviously annoyed voice, First Captain Second Captain whatever.....in real Louth Drawl

Very funny

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 18/09/2013 15:37:35    1484483