seanie boy

the point he is making is people saw what they wanted and he is moaning about that but yet he only saw what he wanted when writing his article he only pointed out an incident involving johnny cooper because it fitted his pln to defend sean cavanagh he failed to point out the maher situation so effectivly he is doing the same thing as what he is complaining that other journalists are doing

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 09/09/2013 19:26:32    1478735

hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 5818

1478735


seanie boy

the point he is making is people saw what they wanted and he is moaning about that but yet he only saw what he wanted when writing his article he only pointed out an incident involving johnny cooper because it fitted his pln to defend sean cavanagh he failed to point out the maher situation so effectivly he is doing the same thing as what he is complaining that other journalists are doing
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Well you are just wrong here hill16no1man.First of all his complaint is not that Tyrone were being criticized,it was that we were being singled out for unfair,and in the case of himself and Sean Cavanagh, personal criticism, and that other teams and players were being let off by same pundits for similar infractions.He didn't need to sound totally bitter by outlining every single thing that made this game less than the classic it was being made out to be in his opinion, so he took the most obvious incident involving Johnny Cooper to highlight.Mickey was just using that incident as an example to highlight the probability that Brolly and co on RTE would have needed medical help if that had been a Tyrone player involved such would have been their outrage!You are doing the same thing yourself sure when you fail to say that Mickey said,"For sure this was a great contest,but was it that good"? Clearly he is saying it was a good enough game but that it had its faults also and everybody knows it.I think Greengrass puts it best about Mickey when he says"His analysis of the game is measured.His analysis of the analysis is absolutely accurate".

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 10/09/2013 09:16:23    1478925

exactly seanie boy you say "he took the most obvious stiuation that happened"
so therefore he is doing the exact same thing as the people he is whining about.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 10/09/2013 10:34:17    1478979

There's a difference between an accidental trip or shirt pull and a complete wrap around rugby style tackle combined with a wrestling pin-down.

Floops (Dublin) - Posts: 1623 - 10/09/2013 10:48:16    1478988

Let it go, Tyrone are out, I have gotten over it and moved on to thinking about next year. I couldn't care less if they criticise us it should give us the drive we need to win again. I enjoyed the game last week but hit the mute button at half time and after the match now. It allows me to form my own opinion and not get annoyed at the criticism directed at our county. They can say bwhat they want but the fact is we are going nowhere and will only get better and better. You think this minor team wait til you see them next year. Played up in garvaghey the other night to and let me tell you the future of tyrone football is in a good place. If we keep mc aliskey, ronan o'neill and mc curry fit next year they will be a handful for anyone. Goodluck to both teams in the final and hopefully a game as good as both semi's. I have to side with mayo though they deserve it

redhanddefender (Tyrone) - Posts: 913 - 10/09/2013 10:59:01    1478995

Ah will you give over seanie_boy. The cooper incident should have been a red, but it was an accident - he tried to play the ball. That doesnt compare with what sean cavanagh done.

As regards mickey harte's 'analysis of the analysis'. I think the facts are correct, but he is most definately drawing conclusions to suit his own agenda. The reason the cooper incident wasnt mentioned as much was because there was so many good things to talk about in the game. That is always the case in any good match, regardless of the sport. People want to see attacking football, and they enjoy it and want to talk about it when it does happen - pundits are no different. If tyrone had played that way and cavanagh had done what cooper did, he would have been treated the same way as cooper, similarly, if dublin were playing like tyrone all year, and cooper was guilty of what cavanagh done he would be roundly criticised. Therefore how can there be a bias?

What annoys me about harte is his team are set up to be cynical. That is part of their gameplan - rightly or wrongly, Im just stating it is there. However, when it gets pointed out, he turns around and points to a one-off incident for a team that dont utilise cynical play as a tactic and says 'why arent we treated the same?' surely it is obvious why they arent treated the same - they arent the same! One is one guy missing the ball and accidentally taking down the man, the other is a blatent deliberate foul to stop a goal - his 3rd in as many games. Of course they arent the same, so why would they be treated the same? If they were then wouldnt that be biased against dublin?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 10/09/2013 10:59:58    1478997

Just read the article and watched the Kerry Dublin game again last night. Mickey H is right in what he is saying. Defending in the Kerry - Dublin game was very poor. Kerry defence were out on their feet from 50 mins onwards and the Dublin defence was poor for the whole game (apart from ROC & COS). Ger Brennan gave an exibition in how not to defend and he looked even slower than usual (Gooch is no speed merchant remember). Both teams were cynical and we will get more of the same in the AI Final.

Spillane's analysis of the game was terribly biased towards Kerry and his jibe at Tyrone was childish. However, I thoroughly enjoyed the Dublin - Kerry game as the attacking play was exceptional from both teams. Mayo - Dublin game will be different in that the Mayo defence is far superior to Dublin's defence but the Mayo attack is far inferior to Dublin's attack. Which will win out?? I think Mayo's dominance around the middle will win the game for them - but I'm far from convinced.

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 10/09/2013 11:43:04    1479030

Sick of listening to Dublin fans patting themselves on the back.Im 35 year old and i have seen the mighty capital with a population of 1M+ win three poxy 'sams'.Dublin do not deserve the right to say how the game should be played.

DABLACKSPOT (Westmeath) - Posts: 551 - 10/09/2013 12:50:56    1479106

Sick of listening to Dublin fans patting themselves on the back.Im 35 year old and i have seen the mighty capital with a population of 1M+ win three poxy 'sams'.Dublin do not deserve the right to say how the game should be played.

_________________

hahahahahahaha

get the chip of your shoulder ;)

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13655 - 10/09/2013 12:55:09    1479113

Pdempsey a good post, Micky Harte is not often far wrong and why wouldn't he feel the need to defend his corner. I've said it before that all teams are cynical when the need is great and all have had their moments when the dark side of the game appears.

Tyrone and Micky Harte have built a team/teams with a strong defensive ethos and fair play to them if it works for them. I personally enjoy the tactical battles and I love watching teams break from deep at pace. Tyrone and Armagh were the first to open this door and Donegal added to it last year with some scintillating football. I deify anyone to say they did not think that Donegal in full flow last year were not a pleasure to watch….

Defending is just as important as attacking and if you can't see that you are very naive and have clearly not moved with the times. Lad's, new ways and systems are invented all the time, deal with it. It would seem to me that some people can't deal with change when they have missed the boat…

Donegal proved last year that you can mix being defensively strong and still offer a lot going forward and I feel Mayo have taken that baton on well this year… Tyrone did it in the past and were a great watch… I don't see the problem.

Mancirish (UK) - Posts: 2200 - 10/09/2013 13:23:47    1479142

What annoys me about harte is his team are set up to be cynical. That is part of their gameplan - rightly or wrongly, Im just stating it is there.

To be fair now, even a minor player knows to foul if the ball drops short after an attack to stop the counter and where and where is not in the opposition teams free takers scoring range these days. I'm not agreeing with it, but it's not just a Harte thing.

GetOverTheBar (Tyrone) - Posts: 1388 - 10/09/2013 13:47:54    1479165

10/09/2013 12:50:56
DABLACKSPOT
County: Westmeath
Posts: 547

1479106
Sick of listening to Dublin fans patting themselves on the back.Im 35 year old and i have seen the mighty capital with a population of 1M+ win three poxy 'sams'.Dublin do not deserve the right to say how the game should be played.

Yeah... winning sam is a pox alright, regardless if its 3 or 23. Does always help if ya a million players to select from. All 1 million true blue dubs waiting to get there shot at the panel. Dublin like Tyrone, Like Donegal are entitled to put forward how they think the game should be played. They don't ram that ethos down anyones throat, they just put forward their opinion.

bluedubstar (Dublin) - Posts: 835 - 10/09/2013 14:37:16    1479228

pdempsey
County: Mayo
Posts: 405

1479030
Just read the article and watched the Kerry Dublin game again last night. Mickey H is right in what he is saying. Defending in the Kerry - Dublin game was very poor. Kerry defence were out on their feet from 50 mins onwards and the Dublin defence was poor for the whole game (apart from ROC & COS). Ger Brennan gave an exibition in how not to defend and he looked even slower than usual (Gooch is no speed merchant remember). Both teams were cynical and we will get more of the same in the AI Final.

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The stats suggest otherwise re Dublin's defending. We were all over the place at the back for the first 20 but for the last 50 mins of that game against one of the best forward lines in the game, Dublin only conceded 7 points, only 5 from play. That's obviously not down to bad defending. The problems were rectified with the introduction of McMahon and switching of Cian to CHB. In any case in a game played with such pace and excellent forward play you inevitably get sloppy defending. It's basic maths at the end of the day, more players forward = less players back = more scores conceded.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 10/09/2013 14:45:32    1479241

Thats great then Joxer... no work needed at the back for the Dubs. Thats just fine by me....

Mancirish (UK) - Posts: 2200 - 10/09/2013 14:52:33    1479248

GetOverTheBar, is that all tyrone do though?

No it isnt. They approach the game in general in a cynical manner. It doesnt matter if that is a harte thing or a tyrone in general thing - harte's team do it more than others, so him trying to compare this to a one off accidental foul that should have been a red card is nonsense. He is just trying to trivialise what they do so they can get away with more of it. I mean he has a sharp gaa mind, are you trying to tell me he doesnt know the difference between what tyrone do and what cooper did? Pull the other one there mickey.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 10/09/2013 14:56:08    1479255

Mancirish
County: UK
Posts: 1881

... I deify anyone to say they did not think that Donegal in full flow last year were not a pleasure to watch….

I did not think that Donegal in full flow last year were not a pleasure to watch

Now deify me :-)

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 10/09/2013 15:44:29    1479301

DABLACKSPOT is not far off the mark. The Dubs are entitled to be confident about their team which is strong at the minute but it is not that long ago that they were taking some awful hammerings in the Championship particularly from Tyrone. For the Dubs to start preaching from their pulpit now is a bit teeth grinding for many. In 2008 Tyrone absolutely pummelled the Dubs in Croke Park playing some brilliant passing football in an exhibition of great skill and tactics. It is their turn inn the football cycle now but at the minute there is a large degree of condesending arrogance from some Dubs and Jim Gavin has been a bit sneering in his comments about "how the gams should be played". Gaelic football, and sport in general, is an wondeful mixture of styles, tactics and skill and they can ALL be accommodated; t is like life itself. If it wasn't for Armmagh, Tyrone and Donegal, Kerry would most likely have done 10 in a row and no disrespect to a great county but how can that be good for the wider game? Most of us love cakes but too much of them can you leave a bit sick after a while. Sport is not about standing on the sidelines applauding teams in a self depreciating manner as they hand you out beating after beating like Kerry did to Mayo and Cork over the past decade. It is nice to win sometimes as well. Was it Vince Lombardi who said "Show me a good loser......and I will show you a loser".

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9829 - 10/09/2013 16:30:08    1479345

Kurt_Angle
County: Dublin
Posts: 49

1479301
Mancirish
County: UK
Posts: 1881

... I deify anyone to say they did not think that Donegal in full flow last year were not a pleasure to watch….

I did not think that Donegal in full flow last year were not a pleasure to watch

Now deify me :-)
_________________
hmmmmm, a double negative........so you did think Donegal were a pleasure to watch, yes?

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 10/09/2013 16:33:11    1479352

brendtheredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 8129

1479352 Kurt_Angle
County: Dublin
Posts: 49

1479301
Mancirish
County: UK
Posts: 1881

... I deify anyone to say they did not think that Donegal in full flow last year were not a pleasure to watch….

I did not think that Donegal in full flow last year were not a pleasure to watch

Now deify me :-)
_________________
hmmmmm, a double negative........so you did think Donegal were a pleasure to watch, yes?

I was just following Mancirish's instructions to the letter ... and I still haven't been deified! What's up with that?

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 10/09/2013 16:47:14    1479370

I mean he has a sharp gaa mind, are you trying to tell me he doesnt know the difference between what tyrone do and what cooper did? Pull the other one there mickey.

Part of the modern managers remit is to deflect attention from his players, as I repeat my previous statement in this thread. Nobody is talking about how Tyrone were physically done after 30 mins of the AI Semi Final.

Harte is taking the rap for the players, he wouldn't be a man too worried about what the media say, whereas some of his new younger lads might well be.

GetOverTheBar (Tyrone) - Posts: 1388 - 10/09/2013 17:45:01    1479458