went to a soccer match in South America before, crowd of 60k plus, as we entered the ground met by armed police, then noticed they were taking guys to the side and breathalysing them, anyone who failed the breathalyser was not let in. Plenty of guards you see round Croker, give them a few breathalysers and let them do something useful

Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 2099 - 27/08/2013 17:23:11    1469522

The problem is simply a drunk muppet making a nuisence of himself. No one is advocating banning drink just drunks. How do you tell a drunk? they are people with too much drink on them making a nuisense or worse of themselves. There is no problem with drunks finding a corner and rolling up in ball and falling asleep we are talking about drink turning a normal man/woman into a raging thug. A few Gardai, armed with tasaers and african rhino whips and steel capped boots would sort these animals out.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4954 - 27/08/2013 18:27:50    1469591

Would not agree with an alcohol ban in the stadium but like responsible nightclubs and pubs entry should be refused to those who are visibly drunk when they arrive.

AnDunLug (Down) - Posts: 14 - 27/08/2013 19:25:17    1469631

27/08/2013 15:43:41
emmomac
"the abuse is as likely to come from dry sober supporters as a drunk supporter"
the above sentence is not true how is it not? The worst abuse ive ever got in a stadium was from totally sober fans in a group at a game in croke park. Tipp were playing but I will not mention the other county.

27/08/2013 16:44:32
Gleebo
This is my last post on this matter, because your opinions are obviously entrenched. If you have 20 pints before a match, then your demeanour and actions should dictate whether you get in or not. The statement that drunken fans are less likely to give abuse flies in the face of common sense, but believe it if you like. No the statement about drunken fans and less likely to give abuse does not fly in any thing. ive stewarded at games in various grounds and often the worst of abuse I have received is from totally dry sober people

27/08/2013 17:23:11
Rosineri1
went to a soccer match in South America before, crowd of 60k plus, as we entered the ground met by armed police, then noticed they were taking guys to the side and breathalysing them, anyone who failed the breathalyser was not let in. Plenty of guards you see round Croker, give them a few breathalysers and let them do something usefulthat would be crazy to do. What would be an appropriate level that people must be under to watch a game. Very different cultures to south American soccer where there has been many cases of huge crowd trouble that doesn't exist here.

27/08/2013 18:27:50
arock
The problem is simply a drunk muppet making a nuisence of himself. No one is advocating banning drink just drunks. How do you tell a drunk? they are people with too much drink on them making a nuisense or worse of themselves. There is no problem with drunks finding a corner and rolling up in ball and falling asleep we are talking about drink turning a normal man/woman into a raging thug. A few Gardai, armed with tasaers and african rhino whips and steel capped boots would sort these animals out.
No that wouldn't work as that would do nothing but create bad PR for the GAA and would be an idiotic idea.

27/08/2013 19:25:17
AnDunLug
Would not agree with an alcohol ban in the stadium but like responsible nightclubs and pubs entry should be refused to those who are visibly drunk when they arrive.I could turn up to a game and be visibly drunk yet could sit in my seat not annoy any of the fans sitting close to yet under what you are saying I would be refused entry. that is not fair on me and I could if that happened easily take the GAA and Croke Park to court for damages.
Nightclubs and pubs are entirely different places and have entirely different situations to sporting events.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 27/08/2013 20:51:01    1469682

I could turn up to a game and be visibly drunk yet could sit in my seat not annoy any of the fans sitting close to yet under what you are saying I would be refused entry. that is not fair on me and I could if that happened easily take the GAA and Croke Park to court for damages.
Nightclubs and pubs are entirely different places and have entirely different situations to sporting events.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Good for you I've no doubt you could but when you are talking about a crowd of up to 80,000 people general rules have to be applied in the best interests of all. If such a condition (i.e. intoxicated people will be refused entry) was marked on tickets for matches, and clearly displayed on signs around the stadium you could not take the GAA to court at all as you as a paying customer would have failed to comply with the terms and conditions of the ticket you had purchased. As for nightclubs and pubs they are (like Croke Park) places that are licenced to sell alcohol. The difference being that Croke Park caters for thousands of people compared to hundreds and that many of those present in Croke Park are in fact children so for me, such a condition should be applied all the more strictly.

AnDunLug (Down) - Posts: 14 - 27/08/2013 21:37:12    1469722

27/08/2013 21:37:12
AnDunLug
Good for you I've no doubt you could but when you are talking about a crowd of up to 80,000 people general rules have to be applied in the best interests of all. If such a condition (i.e. intoxicated people will be refused entry) was marked on tickets for matches, and clearly displayed on signs around the stadium you could not take the GAA to court at all as you as a paying customer would have failed to comply with the terms and conditions of the ticket you had purchased. As for nightclubs and pubs they are (like Croke Park) places that are licenced to sell alcohol. The difference being that Croke Park caters for thousands of people compared to hundreds and that many of those present in Croke Park are in fact children so for me, such a condition should be applied all the more strictly.I also have worked as a steward for Munster Rugby in Thomond Park and in other grounds and worked with in and around 30000 people. You cannot deny entry but you can remove people if causing trouble by talking to the Gardaí.
Why would the GAA invoke such a condition when they would just clearly lose out on money. who would fill those seats that ould be vacated. Pubs and Nightclubs are entirely different to Croke Park and all stadiums. very different places.
How could you justify and quantify who is intoxicated and who is not? What is the level of alcohol that has to be reached for somebody to be classed as intoxicated?
Who would be the people who would test people?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 27/08/2013 21:55:26    1469750

ormondbannerman


1) "I also have worked as a steward for Munster Rugby in Thomond Park and in other grounds and worked with in and around 30000 people.

Under current conditions you cannot. If such a clause was to be clearly marked on tickets you could. This could easily be enacted for Championship 2014

2) "Why would the GAA invoke such a condition when they would just clearly lose out on money. "

Why? Because last time I checked the GAA was an amateur organisation. It is an amateur and community based organisation. Money shouldn't dictate every decision.

3) "Pubs and Nightclubs are entirely different to Croke Park and all stadiums. very different places."

Why and how exactly? To explain my rational I've stated that they are licenced to sell alcohol but unlike Croke Park children generally aren't present in Nightclubs or pubs. You've just repeated yourself. When children are present and the focus is a sporting event moderation when it comes to alcohol consumption is all the more importanat.

4) "How could you justify and quantify who is intoxicated and who is not? What is the level of alcohol that has to be reached for somebody to be classed as intoxicated?
Who would be the people who would test people?"

Agreed it is not an objective question. A couple of pints before the game hurts no-one. Certainly some people who have consumed a large amount of alcohol will still pass through the turnstiles unnoticed. I would simply like to see a situation where stewarts and gardai have the authority turn away someone who is visibly highly intoxicated much like a doorman would at a pub or nightclub.

AnDunLug (Down) - Posts: 14 - 28/08/2013 13:09:04    1470055

AnDunLug
County: Down
Posts: 11
______________________
I agree with everything you have said, nicely put.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 28/08/2013 13:22:20    1470071

28/08/2013 13:09:04
AnDunLug
Why? Because last time I checked the GAA was an amateur organisation. It is an amateur and community based organisation. Money shouldn't dictate every decision.
Why and how exactly? To explain my rational I've stated that they are licenced to sell alcohol but unlike Croke Park children generally aren't present in Nightclubs or pubs. You've just repeated yourself. When children are present and the focus is a sporting event moderation when it comes to alcohol consumption is all the more importanat.
Agreed it is not an objective question. A couple of pints before the game hurts no-one. Certainly some people who have consumed a large amount of alcohol will still pass through the turnstiles unnoticed. I would simply like to see a situation where stewarts and gardai have the authority turn away someone who is visibly highly intoxicated much like a doorman would at a pub or nightclub.
The GAA may be an amateur organisation but it still cannot run without money and income and turning away paying customers who have had a few drinks and there is no proof that they will cause hassle to other supporters(paying customers) is not going to work and leaves the GAA open to legal issues.
Pubs and Nightclubs are very different to stadiums. Children generally can be present in pubs not nightclubs though.
How can stewards(sic) turn away people for being under the influence. Who has trained them to know when to turn somebody away and when to let somebody in. If they are to be able to do that should they not have the PSA license like bouncers have and who will fund that? Yes its the GAA and if that is to be the case ticket prices will have to increase to help cover the costs of increased expenditure

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 28/08/2013 15:47:38    1470239

ormondbannerman

For a start nobody is objecting to "a few drinks". We are talking about those who are already highly intoxicated before they even enter the stadium. And as for lost revenue this is a nonsense. The percentage of fans who show up to the stadium roaring drunk is thankfully still only a tiny minority and with a warning clearly publicised that this behaviour will no longer be tolerated that percentage will no doubt be considerably reduced. On the other hand the knowledge that fans won't be subjected to listening to the abuse and loutish behaviour of a tiny element such as that cited at the beginning of this thread may encourage more people - particularly families to come to the games.

At corke park in particular there is always a strong garda presence therefore a stewart could simply consult with a garda if he or she felt that an individual should be refused entry. And yes some extra expenditure should be spent on PSA licences for stewarts. It would be well worth it.

If you want to watch the match blind drunk do it in the pub or at home.

AnDunLug (Down) - Posts: 14 - 28/08/2013 16:51:46    1470335

The GAA have their own security firm, they are part of the Croke Park management company, fully licensed in all event management, they dont employ outside security companies excrpt for exceptional events. No need to be breath tested, there is a duty of care to patrons of croke park, that doesent extend to people behaving badly be they drunk or sober. Management reserve the right to refuse admission to anybody be it a taxi or a stadium.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4954 - 28/08/2013 17:07:31    1470354

28/08/2013 16:51:46 AnDunLug
ormondbannerman, For a start nobody is objecting to "a few drinks". We are talking about those who are already highly intoxicated before they even enter the stadium. And as for lost revenue this is a nonsense. The percentage of fans who show up to the stadium roaring drunk is thankfully still only a tiny minority and with a warning clearly publicised that this behaviour will no longer be tolerated that percentage will no doubt be considerably reduced. On the other hand the knowledge that fans won't be subjected to listening to the abuse and loutish behaviour of a tiny element such as that cited at the beginning of this thread may encourage more people - particularly families to come to the games.
At corke park in particular there is always a strong garda presence therefore a stewart could simply consult with a garda if he or she felt that an individual should be refused entry. And yes some extra expenditure should be spent on PSA licences for stewarts. It would be well worth it.
If you want to watch the match blind drunk do it in the pub or at home.Again how can you presume anything about what people, who are highly intoxicated before entering any ground, do upon entering said ground. you cant
and lost revenue is not nonsense. You would be losing on income of money spent in the ground by the said people you want to stop from entering the ground.
As said before abuse of fellow supporters/paying customers can as easily come from sober customers.
Who would fund these licenses for Stewards(not all of them are called stewart)?
If I or anyone else wants to watch a game quite drunk then that is my and their choice. You cannot take a moral high ground because I want to have quite a few drinks while watching a game.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 28/08/2013 17:15:03    1470362

ormondbannerman

Your arguments have become more and more repetitive and pointless and you obviously haven't even read mine. You must like to have a few drinks before/while posting on this forum too so I'm calling a halt to this now.

Arock you've made an excellent point and filled in one of the gaps in my knowledge of the situation.

AnDunLug (Down) - Posts: 14 - 28/08/2013 18:35:26    1470439

28/08/2013 18:35:26
AnDunLug
ormondbannerman, Your arguments have become more and more repetitive and pointless and you obviously haven't even read mine. You must like to have a few drinks before/while posting on this forum too so I'm calling a halt to this now.

Arock you've made an excellent point and filled in one of the gaps in my knowledge of the situation.
I did read your points and countered them with my own points. How has any of my points been pointless?
Don't insinuate anything about my personal life please whether I do or do not drink or otherwise while posting is nothing to do with you

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 28/08/2013 21:57:19    1470610

is anyone on here aware of anyone been stopped from entering a GAA ground because they were drunk, have never witnessed or heard of it myself.

Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 2099 - 29/08/2013 09:19:37    1470649

No Rosineri and that's one of the main problems. Stewards and guards seem only interested in stopping people taking the bigwigs seats in the stands or not allowing you back into the stand if you leave it for whatever reason. You can roll into grounds spewing and falling all over the place through drink and the 'authorities' whistle and walk on by; it's ridiculous and a bit of a disgrace.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9819 - 29/08/2013 13:42:40    1470853

29/08/2013 13:42:40
Ulsterman
No Rosineri and that's one of the main problems. Stewards and guards seem only interested in stopping people taking the bigwigs seats in the stands or not allowing you back into the stand if you leave it for whatever reason. You can roll into grounds spewing and falling all over the place through drink and the 'authorities' whistle and walk on by; it's ridiculous and a bit of a disgrace.
No that us not what guards and stewards are only interested in and whats wrong with stewards doing their job and stopping people from sitting in the wrong seats.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 29/08/2013 16:19:35    1470996

went to a soccer match in South America before, crowd of 60k plus, as we entered the ground met by armed police, then noticed they were taking guys to the side and breathalysing them, anyone who failed the breathalyser was not let in. Plenty of guards you see round Croker, give them a few breathalysers and let them do something useful


They mightn't pass themselves

wise_guy (Tyrone) - Posts: 1584 - 29/08/2013 18:34:18    1471072