The thing that strikes me is that, if the media hadn't of jumped on the cynical fouling bandwagon after the last 5mins of the Meath game, I don't think very many people would mention it, but brought to the attention of the people by pundits who have a grudge against tyrone, probably due to the fact that tyrone won't talk to rte. what cavanagh done is what any player in any county would do.... And if they say they wouldnt, their not much a player, fact......It wasn't a sending off, but if the ref had sent him off would he would taking the same level of abuse now? Of course not. So that was out of his control. He fouled, got a yellow card, they score a point..... Now in the 2nd match shields clearly touched the ball on the ground to prevent a simple goal, no goal keeper for dublin to beat, absolute goal, he knew he would foul the ball but hoped he would not be seen , and he wasn't, I say fair play,didn't even concede a point for his team!!!! That is way more cynical play in my book! But yet, no mention of it from the panel....... And ironically, tyrone scored some absolutely brilliant points in the first half - so my point is, if brolly hadn't of went on his attention seeking rant, very few would be talking about a cynical match, it was a good match, with great scores.... Tyrone do nothing different to mayo, Donegal, and yes even Kerry.... All this talk about the black card next year, will interesting especially when the Kerry's and corks of this world are losing players to it, bring it on.. Case in point tadhg Kennelly 2009... Cynical yes, dangerous yes..........

Paul256 (Fermanagh) - Posts: 1 - 04/08/2013 09:36:08    1451957

This situation has to be dealt with for the future. mcmanus wasn't going to just settle for a point, he was going for goal. But to award a player a 13 metre in this situtation is no good to him. And for cavanagh to stay on was rubbing salt in monaghan wounds. Advantage has to be given to the attacking player and team.

minorb2012 (Galway) - Posts: 19 - 04/08/2013 09:39:14    1451960

On another note it seems the likes of Kery,Cork,Dublin,Meath,Mayo,Galway,and in general Down all try and play football,obviously not all these teams play exactly the same way,but they are all traditional counties.In general it seems the counties who have not got a great tradition,play in a blanket kind of 2 sweeper tactically approach.

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 04/08/2013 09:41:37    1451962

Some of the stuff being posted here is laughable. Lads comparing it to a last man tackle in soccer. Was it a bad foul? Yes. Was it a red card? No. Basically until the laws state it is a red card offence then Cavanagh was dead right. Do lads on here even play Gaa? Put yourselves in Sean Cavs position, are ye tellIng me ye wouldn't drag him down in the same position? Cop on lads. And as for Brolly?? Well the less said the better, good tv alright but his comments were laughable.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8445 - 04/08/2013 09:45:44    1451964

Joe brolly is very selective and this is the first ulster team he dosent lloke. With all his green and gold Pom Pom shaking he never once mentioned the levels of cheating from the great Donegal. The game against tyrone in the ulster championship showed just how low they can stoop in order to win but no rant there. If cavanagh had of let him through they'd be saying he should have pulled him down.

jonno (Kildare) - Posts: 261 - 04/08/2013 09:58:47    1451967

The black card system isn't going to be a cure-all for all of football's disciplinary problems. Managers know players who tire in the second half and usually subbed. They'll be nominated as black card men to take opponents out. Most refs will take the easy option, where before a player should get a straight red, he'll get a black card and a fresh sub is on. Where's the disadvantage in that? Forget the black card, improve refereeing standards.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8097 - 04/08/2013 10:06:22    1451974

MissDownFanatic
County: Down
Posts: 279

1451920
I think Joe and I could have a very beautiful relationship based on our very similar opinions on the kings of cynicism I mean eh Tyrone
------------------------------------
Sure only a mother could love either of yez.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 04/08/2013 10:08:37    1451976

So there's no talk of the foul in the Other game where the Cork forward was blatantly fouled from behind but because he managed to get his shot away whilst falling nothing was given by the ref. or the other instance a few minutes from the end when a Cork man was jumping for a high ball and the Dublin defender barged into him in mid air and got none of the ball.

These were not as obvious as Cavanaghs but no less cynical

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 04/08/2013 10:08:57    1451977

There is no show like a joe show ;-)

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 04/08/2013 10:13:07    1451981

Joe Brolly proved to be somewhat of a hyproctire during the course of the Tyrone/Monaghan game.

Other sports encounter similar indiscretions to what Sean Cavanagh committed. Soccer games has the cases of the last defender 'taking out' the player through on goal and the outfield player handling the ball to prevent a goal. Rubgy has many cases of indiscretions that prevent tries.

The major difference between gaelic football and these other sports is that the other sports have punishments that fit the crime. Rubgy also has the option sending a player to the sin bin due to persistent breaches of the rules by the team.

Why is Joe Brolly a hyprocrite for his views on the Tyrone / Monaghan game ?

At half time he was admiring Sean Cavanagh for pulling a Monaghan player to the ground. Tyrone got a free that resulted in a point. The Monaghan player was incorrectly yellow-carded. Sean Cavanagh was in the wrong in this instance than for the second half foul that prevented the goal chance. The net difference in scores between the two incidents was 1 point.

The impact on the game of the unjust yellow card on the Monaghan defender is obviously unknown. If Sean Cavanagh was carded for this early offense the course of the game would be different.

Joe's conversion rings a bit hollow.

tasman (Roscommon) - Posts: 23 - 04/08/2013 10:17:10    1451985

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHuU3EdJ1NQ

Gotta love the purists.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 04/08/2013 10:29:52    1451994

ziggy32001
County: Meath
Posts: 2572

1451962 On another note it seems the likes of Kery,Cork,Dublin,Meath,Mayo,Galway,and in general Down all try and play football,obviously not all these teams play exactly the same way,but they are all traditional counties.In general it seems the counties who have not got a great tradition,play in a blanket kind of 2 sweeper tactically approach
____________________
I think you need to explain this comment meath lad!!!!

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 04/08/2013 10:31:01    1451995

Its not just about Cavanagh's cynical foul though, its the (yet again) constant fouling in the last 5 mins any time there was a sniff of a Monagahan attack, its the way Conor Gormally does his utmost to gain an advantage whatever the situation or however illegal it is, Its the way Cavanagh dives on a perfect Hughes tackle, its the way Dessie Mone was punched not once but twice by separate Tyrone men over 30 seconds at half time and was hit off the ball at other times by Penrose. Before yesterday I thought people went slightly over the top with the Tyrone criticism and didn't think they were much worse than the rest of the bunch in terms on cynicism but yesterday they took 'bending' the rules to a completely different planet.

CaisleanCnucha (Dublin) - Posts: 1379 - 04/08/2013 10:32:37    1451998

There's no show like a joe show :-)

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 04/08/2013 10:34:21    1452001

Everybody fouls but nobody does the cynicism quite like the ulster teams, silver lining is one of them exited yesterday.

switec (Kildare) - Posts: 525 - 04/08/2013 10:35:01    1452002

Sean kavanagh tackled around the waste with a grabbing motion. Several players now tackle in games high around the neck - and they aint skinny arms either! So they are both deemed yellow. Tome the high arm tackle of which we are seeing more of in both codes is more likely to lead to injury. I d be more concerned about this being looked at rather than the cynical one denying a scoring chance.. football is now a more negative game in general. Fitness rules and skills are second to negative tactics and systems. BUT! when lads are training 4/5 times a week in a near professional basis with serious money invested in it, well you do what you have to do to win. No point in being naive. Maybe we need to look at the bigger picture.. as for brolly, ah hes gone by his sell by date!

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2631 - 04/08/2013 10:43:40    1452008

The level of cynicism in modern day Gaelic football isn't the issue. Personally I think as a game its dull and boring and unwatchable over the course of 70 minutes. I'd sooner go out to the back garden and feed the birds. What is the issue was Brolly's intemperate attack on Sean Cavanagh and Mickey Harte.

Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1069 - 04/08/2013 10:44:50    1452010

In fairness in both games there was a high standard of excellant (and fair) tackling, if a player took his eyes off the ball for a second it was gone. The difference between a "cynical" and say an "ordinary" foul is just intent. Basketball has an "intentional" and "unintentional", intentional ones carry a much heavier penalty never on the player but on his team. Officials need to know when an ordinary foul can be deemed a cynical one, a tuned in ref will easily know and apply the penalties accordingly. As these fouls are committed with the express intention of denying a score the penalty should enable a team to score and/or gain possession as well. That is the only way to deal with this type of foul, hurt the team.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4954 - 04/08/2013 10:45:43    1452011

I agree with him receiving the yellow card.
He never should've got MOTM as he dived in the first half and Hughes got a yellow.
That took him out of the game as he was unable to commit to another tackle.

The rules should be changed to stamp this out of the game.
I am still annoyed about the game we didn't perform.
Gormley should've got the line.
Kieran Hughes was naive.

We had a good year it could've been so much better.
Anytime we have be knocked out I would cheer for Tyrone but not this year.
In the past Tyrone teams where tough physical but they never played like they have this year.
Its cheating in my eyes and they got away with it they had three different markers on McManus each marker fouled him at least three times joke.
No interest in playing football and we fell in to that trap yesterday.

lester09 (Monaghan) - Posts: 127 - 04/08/2013 11:01:31    1452023

V hard to monitor intent/non intent fouls surely though? Its fast paced with 30 players constantly moving. Things like body checks etc are intentional and go on every game. Whats deemed a scoring opportunity? Will this increase the amount of diving? I d hate to see us going down the soccer road in terms of red card for denying a scoring opp. S tackle is a tackle no matter where you do it on the pitch. Why a yellow in one area and a red in another? Increasing the amount of scores is to do what to the current game? Make it a better spectacle for viewers? I dont think players mind if its low scoring and the win. And thats the bottum line. Its not go games at thst level!

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2631 - 04/08/2013 11:02:33    1452026