seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2720

1461807 Is Aidan O' Shea getting banned from the semi final for his red card?Off course not cos he is not a Tyrone player

No Seanie. He was sent off on two yellows. You don't miss a game for that. That's why Stephen O Neill was available to play against Monaghan following his sending off against Meath .You asked in a previous post was the disciplinary course of action deliberately delayed to avoid Conor Gormley serving his ban in club football. The answer again is no. If the alleged offence is committed in inter county football then the suspension is served in the competition in which it was committed. The two levels club and county are looked upon as being separate. If you are due to serve a suspension for a transgression committed in club football it will not affect you at county level. I have been involved in successful appeals at county and club level. I have looked at the video footage especially on slow motion and it will be difficult to disprove it especially if he is charged with striking. You have to be able to refute the charge beyond doubt. Words will have to be chosen very carefully. I wish them luck.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6181 - 15/08/2013 11:25:56    1461843

Joe Brolly is from Derry.
I'm absolutely shocked that there is no love lost between Tyrone and Derry? Duh....
The sooner Tyrone are knocked out of the championship the better so maybe the playing of football can take centre stage.
I'm tired of all the conspiracy theories, ill will, rancour and festering resentment. And that's just from my end!!! Ha ha!
Seriously though Tyrone are turning into possibly the most controversial if not the most unpopular team of all time. Change needed at the helm, too many vendettas and personal grievances it looks like.

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 15/08/2013 11:28:14    1461847

Cheers Greengrass.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 15/08/2013 11:29:25    1461849

Greengrass............why did it take so long to issue the ban though? Surely they know this is disruptive for a team preparing for an all Ireland semi final.Thats what makes us think they are doing their best to frustrate our efforts.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 15/08/2013 11:34:17    1461854

greengrass
I have looked at the video footage especially on slow motion and it will be difficult to disprove it especially if he is charged with striking. You have to be able to refute the charge beyond doubt. Words will have to be chosen very carefully. I wish them luck.

Exactly right. The thing is though, if words have to be chosen carefully, then what does that say? Look, hand on heart we know what gormley was at - he was trying to give mone a bit of a clip in the middle of a schmozzle and maybe get him to react, simply because he is a main player for monaghan - indeed, as was penrose. He probably just pushed it too far, and if has to be picking words and phrases then it is fair to say that there is a case to answer. I do feel a little sorry for gormley in this respect, as this goes on a bit and generally goes unpunished. But this stuff has to stop and that has to start somewhere.

As a sidepoint, do black cards carry? i.e if a guy keeps getting them, does he get punished further? Also, how long before a team use a black card as a substitution?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 15/08/2013 11:42:00    1461867

Greengrass agree with what you said totally except Slow Motion. Things will look different in slow motion. Anything will look more premeditated in slow motion because it takes longer. To me it is very much a split second push and that shows up in real time.

Seanie - well unearthed. Two points about Brolly in the clip. Firstly very confident in front of camera for someone starting out, so is well suited to TV. Secondly not as clairvoyant as he would like... in 2002 didn't think this Tyrone team will ever win anything, too many small players.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 15/08/2013 11:54:26    1461876

yroneed
Greengrass agree with what you said totally except Slow Motion. Things will look different in slow motion. Anything will look more premeditated in slow motion because it takes longer. To me it is very much a split second push and that shows up in real time

Generally that is correct, but in this instance the slow-motion shows that he did connect with mone himself (something that has been denied on here) and that he had released mone's arm before doing so (which again disproves this idea that mone just hit himself). It also shows there was a fair bit of follow through in the motion and that mone does take a right old smack in the face - mainly from gormley's hand. It happens too quickly in real time to see all those things, but the slow-mo shows they were present.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 15/08/2013 12:24:35    1461894

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2726

1461854 Greengrass............why did it take so long to issue the ban though? Surely they know this is disruptive for a team preparing for an all Ireland semi final.Thats what makes us think they are doing their best to frustrate our efforts

I can't say for certain Seanie. I know that the hearings I attended were in front of people assembled from all over the country. There is procedure to be followed because they are very aware of the possibility of legal challenges. What you say in relation to the disruption caused to teams preparations is absolutely correct. Do Tyrone plan for Mayo with or without Conor Gormley and Marty Penrose ? There are only ten days to go to the match. I'm not sure about policy in relation to the time span imposed on these procedures . They don't move very quickly and they have been consistent in that.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6181 - 15/08/2013 12:33:41    1461903

tyroneed
County: Tyrone
Posts: 278

1461876 Greengrass agree with what you said totally except Slow Motion. Things will look different in slow motion. Anything will look more premeditated in slow motion because it takes longer. To me it is very much a split second push and that shows up in real time

You are not bound on appeal to use slow motion footage. You can play the footage whatever way you like in order to support your case. You are expressly prohibited from altering or tampering with the footage you use. You are allowed to use slow motion footage of the event subsequent to showing the footage in real time. You can also use any footage you may have had shot yourself ie Tyrone if they had their own cameraman shooting the game from a different vantage point from where the footage we saw was shot can use that footage .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6181 - 15/08/2013 12:39:40    1461908

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 8267

1461894 yroneed
Greengrass agree with what you said totally except Slow Motion. Things will look different in slow motion. Anything will look more premeditated in slow motion because it takes longer. To me it is very much a split second push and that shows up in real time

Generally that is correct, but in this instance the slow-motion shows that he did connect with mone himself (something that has been denied on here) and that he had released mone's arm before doing so (which again disproves this idea that mone just hit himself). It also shows there was a fair bit of follow through in the motion and that mone does take a right old smack in the face - mainly from gormley's hand. It happens too quickly in real time to see all those things, but the slow-mo shows they were present.

Absolutely correct Master. That is why it will be difficult to overturn the suspension. You have to be able to refute the charge and I'm not sure that can be done. Dessie Mone,s hand is not beside his face and his face does recoil from what appears to be a strike from a hand wearing a black glove. There is also if you freeze it at the point of the alleged impact, a hand at Dessie Mone's neck in a red glove. That belongs to Stephen O Neill. Dessie Mone's hand is in the air and not protecting his face. The recoil at the time of impact is what is going to have to be explained. They may say that it was not a striking action and concentrate on the formula of words that define striking in The Official Guide. If what Conor Gormley did does not strictly conform with that definition they may have something.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6181 - 15/08/2013 12:54:15    1461920

Some additional points for the more astute posters were made last night by the Tyrone County Board:

Tyrone made U-12 footbal "non-competitive" 30 years ago, long before the "Go-games" model was derived and implemented so that the "winning-is-everything" culture would NOT be part of children's Gaelic games in the county

Tyrone has been rolling out highly-succesful, structured GAA Summer Camps for 20 years. The camps show children how to play and behave. We believe the national "Cul" Camps model is largely based on ours.

This is no doubt in reference to the virtues being taught in Naomh Brid GAC and others throughout the country.

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 15/08/2013 14:23:30    1461991

Tyrone made U-12 footbal "non-competitive" 30 years ago, long before the "Go-games" model was derived and implemented so that the "winning-is-everything" culture would NOT be part of children's Gaelic games in the county

That is all fine if we are talking about an u-12 game. But from 13-21 a whole lot can happen, and so making this point about senior and minors doesnt really mean a whole lot.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 15/08/2013 14:36:21    1462006

now it's official and the stats have been released by the tyrone county board for fouling in all tyrone league and championship games.

tyrone committed 256 fouls in all games this year..an average of 23.3 fouls per game

tyrone have 280 fouls committed against them..an average of 25.5 fouls per game

sean cavanagh has been fouled a total of 47 times..that is one sixth of fouls against the tyrone team...a clear indication he is a targeted player by the opposition

will brolly now come out and acknowledge his rant about tyrone was way out of line...will colm o'rourke now acknowledge that he was wrong in describing tyrone as taking fouling to a new level especially when the opposition commit more fouls?

I certainly won't be holding my breath...the so called national media are a disgrace

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 15/08/2013 15:21:46    1462037

mayotyroneman, considering tyrone dive more than any team in the country, and cavanagh more than any player in the tyrone team (some feat) those numbers are about right. When are the the tyrone co board apologising to brolly?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 15/08/2013 15:45:36    1462061

Every team has the odd diver. And then there's always the Kerry (swan lake) boys. They dive , but are just more graceful at it. Isn't that it?

gaelantrim (Antrim) - Posts: 1616 - 15/08/2013 16:24:18    1462102

I love a man for the statistics. Ignore facts and go with the visceral. Then try to dress it up as objective. The Hoganstand trolls are alive and well and no less entertaining than they ever were.

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 15/08/2013 16:42:35    1462126

I can't believe that seanie_boy from Tyrone with over 2,700 posts doesn't know the basic rules of the association as explained to him by Greengrass from Louth. I give up, really.

drumlinbelt (Monaghan) - Posts: 179 - 15/08/2013 16:54:30    1462141

gaelantrim
Every team has the odd diver. And then there's always the Kerry (swan lake) boys. They dive , but are just more graceful at it. Isn't that it?

You see this is the same argument that gets wheeled out time and again. Yes every team has the odd diver. But tyrone have lots of them, and they do it so much and so well that it obviously rehearsed - they are two very different things, it just suits your argument to pretend they are the same.
If it was the opposite. If we were talking about a positive that tyrone had compared to others your stance would have the total opposite. Say if instead of diving, we were talking about kicking long range scores. If every man on the tyrone team done it, and only the odd guy on the other sides, you wouldnt be saying that everyone was as good as tyrone because they has the odd guy who could kick scores. The same applies here, and well you know it.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 15/08/2013 17:09:08    1462152

Good man Joe !
Even the pope agrees !

StopTheLights (Galway) - Posts: 415 - 15/08/2013 18:51:08    1462228

drumlinbelt
County: Monaghan
Posts: 114

1462141
I can't believe that seanie_boy from Tyrone with over 2,700 posts doesn't know the basic rules of the association as explained to him by Greengrass from Louth. I give up, really.
------------------------------------
I know the game when I'm playing or watching on a field.I don't know the inner workings of the CCCC and how the suits at the top adjudicate on everything....................so shoot me.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 15/08/2013 21:30:09    1462318