Greengrass
County: Louth
Posts: 2716

1456209
cacsmckilly
County: Tyrone
Posts: 843

1456161 Sean Cavanagh, a great footballer chooses to cheat again and again. Nothing more, nothing less.

GreenGrass - Taking performance enhancing drugs to gain an unfair advantage over your opponent is call cheating. Commiting a foul like Sean Cavanagh did is called breaking a rule. Its not cheating. The rules of the game should provide sanctions which deter teams from commiting a foul. The sanctions are not severe enough obviously in the current GAA rule book for such a tackle as Sean carried out. If a team can avoid losing a very important match by breaking a few rules they are going to do it

Taking performance enhancing drugs is cheating. However persistent diving and persistent rugby tackling your opponents is also cheating. What Sean Cavanagh did to Conor McManus was cheating. Sean Cavanagh has now done this three times in a row. It has to stop and it has to stop now.

When Paul Scholes played for Man Utd and got his customary yellow card for a wreckless and/or cynical tackle every game nobody was up in arms. The yellow card is his punishment, everyone gets on with it. Cavanagh got his yellow card too, get over it.

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 08/08/2013 11:25:20    1456281

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 8140

1456242
That article is a bit much. Saying that because o'rourke didnt give an example of the cynical play, he is somehow wrong - there were loads of examples that we had just seen with our own two eyes, he didnt need to go highlighting them, we knew them already. Similarly, they pointed out the cynical play but tried to balance it after brolly went off like he did, that is pretty standard, I dont see how that is somehow a talking point.
Finally, what is wrong with describing the likes of gormley as wiley old foxes? That is exactly what they are. People referred to fabio cannavaro as a wiley old fox. It isnt a slight. This always the victim stuff becomes tiresome after a while. Your team cheated both meath and monaghan out of late goal chances and won both games by two points, you cant expect to not take some flak over that.

What are the words that are typically associated with a fox? Sly and cunning. These are dark character traits, not favourable ones.

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 08/08/2013 11:28:15    1456283

kingdom_come
County: Kerry
Posts: 41

1456274
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I notice none of our Tyrone brethren are denying the diving claims and instead trying to imply that Paul Galvin does this weekly. I think I've only seen Galvin take a dive about 4 times yet he's pilloried as one of the worst offenders.

Dooher probably took more dives in the first half of the 2005 All-Ireland than Galvin took in his career.

I think this is on youtube. I would advise you to watch and note down the times to substantiate these claims.

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 08/08/2013 11:33:30    1456290

Fair criticism is ok.Joe was unfair,he apologized and thats it.Nobody asked Goulding or Shields to apologize or the Kerry player guilty of the drag down against Cavan as pointed out in Heaneys article.Write to your county boards to complain about the rules and to have them changed.Nobody asked Kennelly to apologize to Murphy.Then again they are not from Tyrone.Yez are so myopic lads and bitter that its sickening.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 08/08/2013 11:34:29    1456291

kingdom_come
County: Kerry
Posts: 41

1456274
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I notice none of our Tyrone brethren are denying the diving claims and instead trying to imply that Paul Galvin does this weekly. I think I've only seen Galvin take a dive about 4 times yet he's pilloried as one of the worst offenders.

Dooher probably took more dives in the first half of the 2005 All-Ireland than Galvin took in his career.
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I like Galvin and I've said on here before that he also gets special and unwarranted treatment too.He is no angel and has been involved in many incidents but it always takes 2 to tango and Galvins problem is that he is always ready to dance.I think he has been a great player though and you can't take that away from him.Just like Sean or any Tyrone player he should be called out for these things, doesn't say you need to personally attack the man.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 08/08/2013 11:41:45    1456304

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2663

1456291 Fair criticism is ok.Joe was unfair,he apologized and thats it.Nobody asked Goulding or Shields to apologize or the Kerry player guilty of the drag down against Cavan as pointed out in Heaneys article.Write to your county boards to complain about the rules and to have them changed.Nobody asked Kennelly to apologize to Murphy.Then again they are not from Tyrone.Yez are so myopic lads and bitter that its sickening

You are absolutely correct in what you say. Kennelly's act in particular was despicable. He should have been severely punished and wasn't. His subsequent admission that what he did was pre meditated was even more sickening than what was done last Sunday. He should have apologised. You are correct in what you say in relation to this. That does not absolve Sean Cavanagh of his responsibilities to the game. An apology is due. He has done this three times in succession. It is systematic and persistent. You are ignoring that. Brolly was big enough to apologise for his unacceptable remarks.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6181 - 08/08/2013 11:51:24    1456316

So Greengrass are you saying that after over 100 yrs of gaelic games being played its now time for one man to apologize to us all for an infraction he made? What about the 1000's of incidents of foul play that happened before lat weekend Greengrass and what about the ones that happened last week also.Come on Greengrass at least Goulding,he should have to do it too if Sean has to as his offence was similar.Then we can open a "Truth and Reconciliation Commission" on the whole plant.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 08/08/2013 12:22:00    1456356

benjyyy
What are the words that are typically associated with a fox? Sly and cunning. These are dark character traits, not favourable ones.

There is no automatic connection between being cunning and being dirty. I would suggest that a good reader of the game is cunning. Also, cunning comes with experience. You know how far you can push a tackle without it being a foul, you learn to predict what you man is likely to do or what kind of ball is going to be played to him, etc etc. I think you are trying to say that they meant these guys were devious, but that isnt necessarily the case. Alan Dillon has been described in a similar way, yet he is a very clean footballer, and probably gets targetted far more than he ever targetted anyone. These dark connotations are not necessarily there. It is just a way commentators describe older players when they do something of note - mostly good actually.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 08/08/2013 12:36:43    1456376

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 8142

1456376
benjyyy
What are the words that are typically associated with a fox? Sly and cunning. These are dark character traits, not favourable ones.

There is no automatic connection between being cunning and being dirty. I would suggest that a good reader of the game is cunning. Also, cunning comes with experience. You know how far you can push a tackle without it being a foul, you learn to predict what you man is likely to do or what kind of ball is going to be played to him, etc etc. I think you are trying to say that they meant these guys were devious, but that isnt necessarily the case. Alan Dillon has been described in a similar way, yet he is a very clean footballer, and probably gets targetted far more than he ever targetted anyone. These dark connotations are not necessarily there. It is just a way commentators describe older players when they do something of note - mostly good actually.
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There you have it Benjyyy,its the foxes in a positive way when its Mayo lets say, but if its Tyrone its the dirty dark arts foxes.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 08/08/2013 12:41:41    1456386

Don't really wanna wade into this debate but firstly I will say (didn't hear anyone else say it) fair play to Sean for being back there to make the tackle in the first place. Tyrone hit the crossbar with a goal chance after that so maybe things were balanced out in the end.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 08/08/2013 13:05:03    1456427

Bengyyy you got in before me, your spot on about Paul Scholes picking up cards, Roy Keane the exact same.
Some lads would want to get a serious grip calling Kavanagh a cheat. What ye're saying is anybody that has given away a free or picked up a yellow card in any game no matter what grade is a cheat!!!!! Pure nonsense.

Joe_Bloggs (Tipperary) - Posts: 186 - 08/08/2013 13:20:37    1456456

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2670

1456356 So Greengrass are you saying that after over 100 yrs of gaelic games being played its now time for one man to apologize to us all for an infraction he made?

Brolly has apologised for wrongly imputing in a personalised way Sean Cavanagh's character. That is to be welcomed. Sean was wronged. It would help if Sean apologised for his persistent and systematic cheating. One infraction is not the half of it. He has dived and rugby tackled in each of the last three matches. His last act against Monaghan was despicable.


What about the 1000's of incidents of foul play that happened before lat weekend Greengrass and what about the ones that happened last week also.Come on Greengrass at least Goulding,he should have to do it too if Sean has to as his offence was similar.

Whataboutery is not a defence. What Shields did was wrong and I would love to hear an apology. Shields hasn't deliberately and brazenly committed the same yellow card offence three weeks running. Sean Cavanagh has compounded this by diving three weeks running as well.Cheating of this nature completely undermines the ethos and spirit of the game and Sean Cavanagh is to the forefront of it. Stop defending the indefensible and condoning Sean Cavanagh's unacceptable actions on the spurious grounds of whataboutery.

Then we can open a "Truth and Reconciliation Commission" on the whole plant.

A remark that will be treated with the contempt it deserves.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6181 - 08/08/2013 13:55:37    1456496

seanie_boy
There you have it Benjyyy,its the foxes in a positive way when its Mayo lets say, but if its Tyrone its the dirty dark arts foxes.

Where did I say it was negative for tyrone? I said it wasnt always negative, and in fact mostly positive - for everyone. Lose the victim mentality, nobody is out to get you.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 08/08/2013 14:13:37    1456523

Joe_Bloggs
County: Tipperary
Posts: 6

1456456
Bengyyy you got in before me, your spot on about Paul Scholes picking up cards, Roy Keane the exact same.
Some lads would want to get a serious grip calling Kavanagh a cheat. What ye're saying is anybody that has given away a free or picked up a yellow card in any game no matter what grade is a cheat!!!!! Pure nonsense.

What I will say and have always said is that yellow cards should carry. Say 2 yellow cards results in a 1 game ban. That would punish teams a bit more

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 08/08/2013 14:23:46    1456546

A cheat is someone such as Lance Armstrong who won many cycling accolades yet at the same time was deceiving everyone by enhancing his physical performance through drug taking.

Cavanagh broke a rule in the game in front of nearly 80,000 people and the rest watching on TV and recevied his punishment for breaking that rule, end of story really. He is not a cheat.

I agree with the Tipp man before me here, does it mean anyone who gets a yellow card or red is a low life and a cheat?? Such as Aidan O'Shea is a cheat, with his two yellow cards for high cynical tackles against Donegal? Do we now refer to Aidan o'Shea as a cheat too? O'Sheas tackles no doubt stopped Donegals momentum

cacsmckilly (Tyrone) - Posts: 1294 - 08/08/2013 14:31:44    1456559

Conor McManus in today's paper says Brolly went to far and he like most pundits at the weekend said they would have done exactly the same.

Greengrass I'll discuss further later.

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 08/08/2013 14:40:31    1456570

Because of the level of censorship on this site i am afraid Skillfil_bill is going to have to take his trade off to some other forum. Signing off and good luck.Skillful_Bill

Skillful_Bill (Tyrone) - Posts: 102 - 08/08/2013 15:30:47    1456662

Hi all,

I haven't read many of the posts in this thread at all. But here is my 2c. Brolly is correct in what he says - the cynical fouling makes gaelic football a poor spectacle at the end of games. However it's unfair to say Tyrone are the only ones at it - all counties do it in some form.

I'd like to see a rule change in this respect, but I'm unsure what is best for the game.

Sean Cavanagh is a fantastic player but it is cynical fouling that needs to be taken out of the game, not Sean Cavanagh.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 08/08/2013 16:06:52    1456731

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 8154

1456376
benjyyy
What are the words that are typically associated with a fox? Sly and cunning. These are dark character traits, not favourable ones.

There is no automatic connection between being cunning and being dirty. I would suggest that a good reader of the game is cunning. Also, cunning comes with experience. You know how far you can push a tackle without it being a foul, you learn to predict what you man is likely to do or what kind of ball is going to be played to him, etc etc. I think you are trying to say that they meant these guys were devious, but that isnt necessarily the case. Alan Dillon has been described in a similar way, yet he is a very clean footballer, and probably gets targetted far more than he ever targetted anyone. These dark connotations are not necessarily there. It is just a way commentators describe older players when they do something of note - mostly good actually.


You are spot on in respect of this statement yet Alan Dillon committed a cynical pull down tackle on one of the Donegal defenders early in the first half on Sunday. I would also suggest that Cavanagh has got far more than he dished out over the years. Maybe he thinks if you can't beat them join them?

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 08/08/2013 17:10:27    1456818

Your team cheated both meath and monaghan out of late goal chances and won both games by two points, you cant expect to not take some flak over that.

Meath had a late goal chance? Must've missed that one.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 08/08/2013 17:24:33    1456847