Kingdom_come,
Excellent ideas for rule changes. The cheating has to be dealt with.

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 01/08/2013 16:22:53    1449966

I think banner boy has the best post on this thread.
Agree with moving the ball 30 yards for not getting out of the way, I would also like to see balls thrown up when the player taking the free either runs into or kicks the ball at an opposing player to make it look like he was in the way. happens all the time.

Personally I think limiting handpasses is a bad idea. Say it 3 or four handpasses, Once a team has reached that level and has to kick it defenders will swarm the man with the ball. Its very hard to kick once you are in close contact with a defender and there will be numerous soft and scrappy turnovers. Will also see more 10 yard kickpasses just for the sake of having to do it which will add an element of scrappyness to the game. Handpassing can be an attractive way of playing when it is dne right. If you look at how Monaghan done it against Donegal it was (nearly) always moving forward and direct up the pitch, same with the way cork play most days. It not that handpassing is negative but it when a team arn't doing it correctly that is the problem.

white.n.blue (Monaghan) - Posts: 249 - 01/08/2013 16:24:22    1449969

I realise that this thread is very football centric but there have been some decent hurling posts too. Definitely agree that any form of contact to the head is a straight red. I'd nearly go as far as to include accidental collisions as these are rarely truly accidental.

This scrapping for the sliotar at the start of a game is very messy too. Surely there's a better way to start a match?

kingdom_come (Kerry) - Posts: 83 - 01/08/2013 16:45:42    1449999

I think this new black card should be a sin bin for about 10-15 minutes

Meath1999 (Meath) - Posts: 24 - 01/08/2013 16:50:20    1450007

The rule change in Black Cards to come will in fact impact on some of the issued raised here. With the Black Card defenders will be less likely to foul in a cynical way which will reduce the number of frees, which will in turn reduce time taken up by goalkeepers coming up to take frees.

Some of the suggestions here should be discounted, anything that adds complexity to the referees job is out. Remember, any rule changes will in the main need to be reflected in Junior D games all around the country, so to expect a ref with a few too many miles on the clock himself to count 2-4 handpasses as well as 4 steps, or in hurling catching the ball a 3rd time is ridiculous.

Rules that I think could be up for consideration:
1 Time - For god's sake take it out of the ref's hands (and yes I know I've contradicted myself straight away). Most refs don't want that responsibility and where possible it should be catered for.

2 Mark for kick-out when outside the 45. This has to come in, how often do you see a player majestically rise and pluck the ball from the air, only to land and be swarmed and then lose possession.

3 Define the tackle in football. I actually think this is defined but not communicated well either by the organisation or the rulebook. The rules should actually list what is not considered legal, it should go a little something like this…
Shoulder to Shoulder with at least one leg on the ground.
Open hand on the ball only
Incidental contact with player allowed if challenging with open hand
Contact (when not connecting with ball) with hand, arm or shoulder of player which is controlling possession of the ball is not allowed
Contact (when not connecting with ball) with hand, arm or shoulder of player which is playing the ball is not allowed
You should get the jist there.

4 I also think that what happens at most club games should be replicated at county level, how many times do you see the home team going to the dugouts, and the away team going to the opposite side of the pitch….

5 Time - Currently play is only stopped for injuries, so the 30 or 35 minutes currently includes all substitutions or the time taken to take a free. In extreme circumstances the ref can stop time, like a ball going into a field next to the pitch. Might it be an idea that with the changes in goalkeepers taking frees, thus wasting (naturally) on average 5 - 10 minutes per game, to increase the half length to 35-40 minutes respectively. By adding the responsibility of stopping the clock for goalkeepers going up the pitch, would it not be better to just add the time?

CarryOnHurling (Meath) - Posts: 169 - 01/08/2013 17:10:21    1450028

Referees to carry a rule book so that players can challenge him if he gives an unfair free i.e the rules mentioned in the other rule thread

boot_it_in (Galway) - Posts: 124 - 01/08/2013 17:38:24    1450056

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I think the black card could be easily manipulated by teams, especially toward the end of matches. There were 4/5 examples last week of players being cynically dragged won when in full flight. With the black card rule, that would mean 4 or 5 players would need to be replaced.

These days, a player will often know when he's going to be taken off through communication with the sideline and watching the players warming up. With the knowledge that he's coming off anyway and the black card will simply mean he is replaced, then why would he not spend his last 2/3 minutes on the field actively dragging players down? Tyrone probably didn't prepare to commit cynical fouls last week, but a team might decide to have a final 10 minutes where they will stop all attempts to get scores by dragging a player down knowing that this player will most likely get a black card instead of a second yellow card for the particular type of foul.

Maybe I'm not 100% up on the black card rule itself, and I'm not saying teams will no longer bring on subs and will instead let the ref enforce the changes on them, but I think there is room here for it to be taken advantage of.

kingdom_come (Kerry) - Posts: 83 - 01/08/2013 17:53:12    1450071

kingdom_come

If a player is on a yellow card and commits a cynical foul then he won't get a black card. Instead the ref will give him his 2nd yellow and send him off.
On your other point aboutsubs. I think (open to correction here) that a team will now have 6 subs but each black card will count as a sub. So it is of no benefit to get a black card rather then being subbed.

white.n.blue (Monaghan) - Posts: 249 - 01/08/2013 18:51:09    1450121

Can't handpass forward........back what it was deigned to do....quickly get out of tight situation. It would then be a little more like the way the handpass is used in hurling.....set-up a man in a better position.

Sounds drastic, but its not really when you think it through, no counting required, easy to see. Transform the game for the better.

Constant hand-passing is just dreadful to watch.

Solo_Run (Leitrim) - Posts: 219 - 01/08/2013 18:56:48    1450129

Does the Black Card Replacement get taken out of the 5 subs? Also what happens if a player is already on a yellow?

I would like to see yellows carried over (might be bit unfair on ulster/leinster)
Also the buzzer should be brought in

dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 01/08/2013 18:59:39    1450130

As some already have said' something needs done about the time wasted and not added on for Goalkeepers coming up to take 45's.Im really fed up of the World being put on standby for the Stephen Cluxton show. limit it to 3 attempts at 45's for Goalkeepers in any given game.

InishowenMan (Donegal) - Posts: 216 - 01/08/2013 19:45:24    1450166

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whitenblue,

I think that in a big game you'll see players pulling and dragging subtly as is the case most of the time. What Tyrone did last week was blatant.

I have a feeling that this will end up being taken advantage of as referee's don't want to send a player off when there is an alternative. The black card is an easy way for a ref to be seen to take action without sending someone off. It could be that the guy on a yellow is actually less likely to be sent off for a cynical foul after the black card arrives.

My sub point was that if a player knows he's about to be subbed and is about to leave the game, then he has an incentive to actually make a cynical foul. If he's coming off anyway and the only penalty is that the player swap that was going to be made anyway (i.e. him being replaced) simply becomes a black card offence...and he's replaced at no extra cost. So, being substituted means his team loses a substitute option, being black carded means a team loses a sub option.

And now you tell me they're adding an extra sub? 1 more opportunity to make a cynical foul for teams that are determined enough to do so.

kingdom_come (Kerry) - Posts: 83 - 02/08/2013 09:36:48    1450345

After 3 black cards have been issued, the next player to receive one cannot be replaced.

The point of using the black card offence cynically remains but could well be curbed if other players have previously received one.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 02/08/2013 11:16:37    1450471

kingdom_come
County: Kerry
Posts: 28

1450071
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I think the black card could be easily manipulated by teams, especially toward the end of matches. There were 4/5 examples last week of players being cynically dragged won when in full flight. With the black card rule, that would mean 4 or 5 players would need to be replaced.

These days, a player will often know when he's going to be taken off through communication with the sideline and watching the players warming up. With the knowledge that he's coming off anyway and the black card will simply mean he is replaced, then why would he not spend his last 2/3 minutes on the field actively dragging players down? Tyrone probably didn't prepare to commit cynical fouls last week, but a team might decide to have a final 10 minutes where they will stop all attempts to get scores by dragging a player down knowing that this player will most likely get a black card instead of a second yellow card for the particular type of foul.

Maybe I'm not 100% up on the black card rule itself, and I'm not saying teams will no longer bring on subs and will instead let the ref enforce the changes on them, but I think there is room here for it to be taken advantage of.
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Complete Cute Hoor you are boy!

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 02/08/2013 11:28:18    1450488

InishowenMan
County: Donegal
Posts: 13

1450166
As some already have said' something needs done about the time wasted and not added on for Goalkeepers coming up to take 45's.Im really fed up of the World being put on standby for the Stephen Cluxton show. limit it to 3 attempts at 45's for Goalkeepers in any given game.
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This is so simple to remedy and would stop the time wasting,stop the clock.Its that simple.From the minute the ball goes out of play and a 45 is awarded and from when a player is fouled and a free is awarded clock starts again when free/45 is taken.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 02/08/2013 11:38:43    1450509

Lads what about this.. If you get a black card, you do the substitution and that, but you miss the next match. Surely that would put a stop to teams cynically fouling?

Jimmy192 (Mayo) - Posts: 107 - 02/08/2013 11:49:40    1450520

I'd like to see the coin toss done away with.

You can't practice for it and we lose at least half of them.

Everyone who comes to Croker should be made play into the Hill in the first half if they are playing Dublin - that way we can frighten the life out of them before half time :-)

EastWallWayne (Dublin) - Posts: 26 - 02/08/2013 11:52:53    1450523

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2528

1450509 InishowenMan
County: Donegal
Posts: 13

1450166
As some already have said' something needs done about the time wasted and not added on for Goalkeepers coming up to take 45's.Im really fed up of the World being put on standby for the Stephen Cluxton show. limit it to 3 attempts at 45's for Goalkeepers in any given game.
-----------------------------
This is so simple to remedy and would stop the time wasting,stop the clock.Its that simple.From the minute the ball goes out of play and a 45 is awarded and from when a player is fouled and a free is awarded clock starts again when free/45 is taken.



Do you know how many times during the course of a year that a ref can forget to restart the clock/watch after an injury? You would be surprised I think...

I admit they would get better as they got used to it, but then we run the risk of going down the American Football route. If it's getting to a stage where these changes are limiting the amount og game time, just add 5 minutes per half and leave it the way it is.

CarryOnHurling (Meath) - Posts: 169 - 02/08/2013 11:55:07    1450530

The extra time is often never played. refs blow the whistle when say the 3 mins of extra time is up even after the team in the lead eats up the clock. Example Tyrone over Meath last week. The ref did not stop his watch when Tyrone was picking up the red card and Meath got screwed.....Meath did not have to go for goals if the ref. played the full 3 mins. Tyrone were too cute and the ref was conned. Rule change: Introduce a time keeper who can hit the pause button.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1763 - 02/08/2013 12:07:35    1450551

Backchat to ref punishable by either free (or moving it up) or a booking. Look at rugby. The refs decision is final.

I also like the idea of yellow cards accumulating up to bans.

Thats my tuppence worth....

Termon (Tyrone) - Posts: 58 - 02/08/2013 12:38:10    1450591