Throwing a hurl = straight red card.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 01/08/2013 08:47:45    1449362

Bosco
County: Carlow

The win at all costs mentality that has gained traction since the breakthrough of Armagh in 2002 followed by Tyrone and taken to new depths by Donegal has damaged Gaelic football dramatically.


Don't mean to be pedantic Bosco but surely you mean taken to new heights by Donegal.

Did you see Donegal play Cork last year. I single out the Cork game as it was acknowledged by many pundits (even outside Ulster ) as the best game in years. From my memory it was end to end and I don't recall a single bad tackle. Mind you the Down and Kerry games from 2012 weren't too shoddy either. Plus we scored 2-11 in the final against a really good Mayo team.

It's of no consequence to me what you or anyone else thinks of Donegal football but you do need a little perspective or you may fall off your high horse.

Ulster abu

Cleatus (Donegal) - Posts: 125 - 01/08/2013 09:00:19    1449366

This seems to come about because people/media are saying there is something wrong with Gaelic Football.

So change the rules!

Well the complaint is the 'packed defence' is making the game too negative. How can you legislate against that?

Change nothing and lets see how the new 'cynical foul' rule works. Think its only going to make ref jobs harder because depending on the match, the circumstances, the tension etc its going to be impossible for them to judge. Herald more abuse leveled on refs from all quarters.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 01/08/2013 10:06:07    1449407

Cleatus,
you're most certainly not being pedantic just misinformed. The only time you'll get something approximating football from some of the northern teams is when they're involved with a team from outside the province so in that light it's not at all surprising you'd refer to the Cork game.
I'll see your Cork game and raise you the Dublin game from 2011. That was grim wasn't it? You can't have taken any pride in that now can you?
What about barren post apocalyptic vision served up the Tyrone and Down games this year?
No my good man, new depths!
Pinching, sly digs, constant intimidation, off the ball hits, constant crying and whinging on the field and on the line. You've taken that to new depths/ heights also.
I'll just have to try and get over the fact that you don't care what I think I suppose, that'll be easy.
Simply my opinion that football wouldn't be any the poorer without the mean spirited cynicism, nastiness and hatefulness that certain Ulster teams bring. Do what you like in your own "championships" sure ill just turn on the cricket.

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 01/08/2013 10:13:59    1449410

Ulsterman
I'd bring in a rule that NO rules are to be changed JUST because an Ulster team wins SAM AND that Kerry, Mayo and Meath are NOT allowed to whinge and make up excuses when they get beaten by Ulster teams.

Id like to introduce a rule where ulsterman cannot judge teams purely on what province they are from...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 01/08/2013 10:16:51    1449414

There is far too much handpassing in the modern game. Why not try something like rugby league where you must kick after 4 hand passes or lose possession. I accept it would be difficult to administer but perhaps one of the linesmen could keep the tally and inform the referee. Worth considering if we are to revert to playing the game call "football".

murof (Kildare) - Posts: 480 - 01/08/2013 10:21:03    1449420

Why have people turned this into another Bash ulster thread?? Hooter for time & Free from 21 yard line for Cynical fouls in your own half (All teams do it not just Ulster teams). this is a rules thread and nothing else.

chriscart580 (Meath) - Posts: 376 - 01/08/2013 10:29:01    1449428

Meath man, Peter whinell scored off mick

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1691 - 01/08/2013 10:33:51    1449434

Bosco
County: Carlow
Posts: 539

Bosco, does all this jealousy and anger stem from the fact that there are four Ulster teams in the Quater finals? We make up half of the number of teams this weekend which are competing for Semi Final positions. Now your own county as you explained earlier do actually play a bit of football which I was unaware of due to the fact I have never seen them in any final, semi or quater of any kind in my 35 years on this planet. Carlow however I must admit have a nice jersey after having googled them on the internet I do like those colour combinations.

Ulster football is leading the way in professionalism and tactical astuteness and will do for the foreseeable future. But I understand your grief and anger my friend...gone are the days of Munster and Leinster dominance, Ulster teams can no longer be laughed at and not taken seriously. We are now laughing at you my esteemed colleague with your naive and out of date style of playing. Thats bound to hurt so i understand your despair and out pouring of negative emotions on here, thats why Hoganstand was created on the first place. Its a place were inferior counties and provinces have a chance to let a load off lets say.

cacsmckilly (Tyrone) - Posts: 1294 - 01/08/2013 10:48:12    1449455

Bring in the Mark to encourage high fielding.Some of the other ideas are good too but I wouldn't limit hand passes any more than kick passes,its a legitimate play.The free for accumulative fouls is a good idea I think,certainly worth looking at.The idea of an independent time keeper is also good idea and the clock should simply be stopped at certain times so no team can choose to waste time,especially to defend leads near the final whistle or to take forever to take a free.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 01/08/2013 10:52:15    1449460

cacsmckilly,
I was wondering were you going to respond at all, great to hear from you.
Still playing the old unaware of Carlow trick eh? Imagine using your own ignorance as a stick to beat me with? You don't see an inherent problem in that no? Ultimately it shows that your GAA acumen is a level below mine "my friend".
Another interesting phenomenon from Ulster is this "we" business? You feel entitled to speak for an entire province do you? It seems some of your province namely Down supporters don't share your sentiments. The latest diatribe coming from Donegal is grist to the mill isn't it? Mayo are colluding with Monaghan? Ah for FFS!
There's absolutely no jealousy on my part whatsoever. I enjoy Gaelic Games. I enjoy the sport. The tribal element doesn't last long for me at inter county level due to the fact that out footballers don't perform we'll usually and if anything this gives me a better level of objectivity than yourself. Ulster carry on is doing harm to the sport.
You never answered my question though either, I'm from Carlow in the Republic of Ireland. Where are you from again tell me?
You must have been pleased with your own u-21 hurlers this year were you?
Carlow jersey is nice isn't it? Only jersey in Ireland with three primary colours you know! Well you do now you probably didn't!

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 01/08/2013 12:01:58    1449593

There's a lot of shi*te rules on the football side of it being made-up here lads im sorry.

By the way, change nothing in hurling, it's grand the way it is.

Limiting handpasses is just not feasible as who's going to keep count of somethin as trivial as that for 70 mins? Bringing cynical fouls up to 21 yard line is unfeasible as what is going to constitue "cynical", far too big a decision for a referee to have to make in a tight game? Getting rid of yellow/red cards and going back to old system of booking and counting fouls is so laughable it doesn't even require a response.

Here are a few sensible ones:

(1) The most annoying element of football nowadays are when opponents stand in the way of a quick free being taken. It's just so unsporting and slows down the play and limits the chances of more direct football being played. Instead of bringing the ball on 10 yards when an opponent refuses to get out of the way of the free-take/kcks it away petulantly, bring it on 30 yards up to a maximum of the 20 yard line. Chances are it's going to result in a scoring chance for the attacking team and will make the opponent think about doing it again. At the moment there's no punishment/deterrent for doing it when it's just 10 yards - it still won't be within scoring distance and it also gives the opposing team time to re-organise their defence. 40 yards on the other hand will make them think twice and improve the flow of the game vastly.

(2)A mark to be called by a player from a kick-out once kick-out is 30 yards or more - so obvious, many people have recommended it - and yet it still hasn't been brought into c'ship. Would bring back the beauty and more importantly the REWARD for excelllent, high fielding.

(3) Yellow cards to be rolled over (3 yellow cards, not 2 and you're suspended for 1 game) - at the moment there's no deterrent whatsoever for a player to pick up a yellow card in the last deciding 5 minutes of a tight game where their team is marginally ahead (where he hasn't picked up one already obviously). Tyrone's antics v Meath the last day are a simple, blatant example of this. I feel 2 cards resulting in missing one match is a llittle too harsh, they may not have been the result of cynical tackling - there isn't much excuse for three though. There may be an argument for excluding the all-ireland final from this rule too. But in general, it's so badly needed.

(4) Stop clock to be used as in ladies football - again so obvious and works so much better than men's football - but for some bizarre reason it hasn't been introduced yet. There are far more delays in football than hurling.

banner_boy (Clare) - Posts: 1285 - 01/08/2013 12:54:26    1449701

Excellent post Banner_boy,
all great ideas. Ulster teams won't like it.

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 01/08/2013 13:06:52    1449726

Only 4 players allowed inside the two 45's at a kick-out until the ball has been touched by another player.Would be easy to police and would reward high fielding.

shea (Kerry) - Posts: 409 - 01/08/2013 13:17:12    1449741

Bosco
County: Carlow
Posts: 544

1449726 Excellent post Banner_boy,
all great ideas. Ulster teams won't like it.

Bosco your Ulster Bashing is geting very boring now. Give your fingers a rest and just read posts for a while

chriscart580 (Meath) - Posts: 376 - 01/08/2013 13:19:45    1449746

chriscart580,
Fair enough. Point taken. Just experimenting with repetition in place of reason.
Would affect ulster most though!

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 01/08/2013 13:28:03    1449763

Bosco seems to thrive on the point that he's from the REPUBLIC OF IRELAND and appears to be hinting that Northern people are NOT Irish and are a breed apart from HIS people. There is no doubt that Ulster folk have a identity further to their Irishness but that has always been the way on this island. If Bosco studied a little better, read and listened he would realise that the oldest settlements on this island can be found around Coleraine and the River Bann on the North coast of Antrim and Derry; Ulster was the hub of the Irish language, culture, religion and music and that all the folklore, mythology and tales we read in school were about Ulster, Cu Chulainn, the Red Branch Knights, Setanta etc. Ulster was the root of rebellion against foreign powers and invaders unlike your own province Leinster which was always the most loyal to the English monarchy and hence the Pale was established. Owen Roe O'Neill marched his Ulster armies 200 miles south and gave Cromwell his only defeat on Irish soil at the Battle of Clonmel and so rebellious were the Ulster clans that the English monarchs James and Elizabeth had to supplant a separate race in their 1000's there to subdue to subdue Ulster. However we weren't defeated, my own family have an old Irish name and can trace their roots to Lough Neagh going back 100's of years. Ulster people are a tough, hardy folk and we don't suffer fools gladly and that manifests itself on the Gaelic football field at times but people like you will never tell us what we are or are not.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9837 - 01/08/2013 13:42:10    1449778

Eh ok Ulsterman,
savage stuff! Let me apologise on behalf of Leinster!!
You might take the time to educate some of your own there though! Yer man from Tyrone didn't know where Carlow was sure?
Anyway we're all Africans sure!!!

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 01/08/2013 14:32:41    1449853

Banner boy,

For my idea anyway, I'm not distinguishing between cynical fouling or "regular" foulinge. My proposal would be that after a threshold is reached, every foul becomes a 21 yard free. The deterrent here is to make every player, everywhere on the field whether or not the ball is near them, very careful about committing a foul of any type at any point in the game - especially at the end of a tight game when things are really up for decision. I'm not distinguishing between cynical Vs regular fouling because in the end, every foul is up to the ref. If a player wants to take the chance and accidentally block a player going for a return handpass, then they have to take the chance that the ref will award a free against their team. If this happens inside their own 30m line as a defender starts and attacking move, then that is a severe punishment.

Would referee's enforce it in a tight match? Would it be applied uniformly? Absolutely not, but I'd hope refs would use their discretion. Most importantly, obvious fouls like Sean Cavanagh's last week would result in a Meath free kick and he would think twice about doing it again.
This in turn would reduce the need to book individual players as much as the niggly fouls would simply increase the team's foul count. Yellow and Red cards could then be applied as intended for more serious offences.

2 yellow cards or 1 red should result in a ban. 3 yellow's is too high, especially if you're giving an amnesty to allow players play in the final. For example, Mayo might only play 5 games this year and win an All-Ireland. One of those games is the final so there's no ban./ That means Mayo players would be free to foul knowing that they have a very good chance of not missing any games.

The mark is an over-rated concept. It works in Aussie Rules because the player can physically shove his opponent out of the way, jump on his back or hold him down in order to get to the ball. If Anthony Maher was going for a high catch against any midfield they'd crowd him out. If he tried to make himself some space by giving a nudge - he'd be committing a foul. The mark in rugby is different too because you are facing the incoming players 99% of the time. In GAA, the opposition can break a ball down and crowd you out. Unless the rules allow players to really battle for the ball without being blown up for a push or shove, then the mark will never work.

The clock should be implemented like in Aussie Rules. If a player is enroute to goal and the klaxxon sounds, game over. If he has already kicked for a score and it goes over, the score counts and if he has to take a free kick after the hooter, then that can be taken.

Counting handpasses is not a good idea. Ref's would be missing them continuously and in reality, it'd probably make the game more defensive. What would most likely happen is a team would try to get forward with 3 handpasses, run into trouble and kick the ball backwards to try and start the move again.

kingdom_come (Kerry) - Posts: 83 - 01/08/2013 15:48:45    1449930

and Ulsterman.

Relax a little. You boys don't have a monopoly on hardship.

kingdom_come (Kerry) - Posts: 83 - 01/08/2013 15:51:32    1449934