Benjyy

But before last weekend Monaghan wouldn't even have been regarded as a top 10 team in most quarters so to me it would suggest that it don't really matter the quality of your players once they go out and do a job like foot soldiers you will ground out a win when you play that kind of game.
I would be concerned as to why Donegal persisted playing that way for the 70 minutes when they needed to score more.
It could end up being a blessing in disguise at the same time as now mcguinnes will be forced to have to have a plan b if the same thing happens again or they will be out

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 22/07/2013 16:26:13    1439041

hill16

Its very hard to completely change the flow of a game against a team who are hungrier and sharper which Monaghan were. We tried the high ball in to Murphy and it didn't work. What else can you do?!

You may say Dublin went to plan B against us and won but I don't agree. The game only changed when Lacey went off injured. Together with a few softish frees from the ref and the impact of Kevin McMenamin. We were getting no change out of the ref and we dont have a McMenamin on the bench. We can only play with what we have. In saying that I don't think bringing 2 McMenamins off the bench yesterday would have worked, Monaghan were not losing that game

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 22/07/2013 16:34:43    1439059

benjyyy....the problem with the Donegal system is that they will find it hard to beat good teams unless they can get ahead on the scoreboard....because you don't really have game changers coming in off the bench. Football is now really a 20 man game and a 25 man panel to pick from.

Its not Jim nor Donegals fault its just the way it is.

But that been said hunger and believe can bring you a long way. Dublin hurlers and Monaghan footballers have soon us that this year.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 22/07/2013 16:48:02    1439086

Benjyy

Its not rocket science ye scored only 3 points for about 50 minutes of the match so 5 points down ye needed to come out and attack and throw caution to the wind and send men forward.you day Dublin didn't change against Donegal I don't feel they did either I feel they just knew Donegal would tire and used the ball better and broke them down.
But last year against mayo Dublin lined up too defensive minded then when they went 10 points down they changed to an orthodox 15 and went for it and almost got the result in the end

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 22/07/2013 16:50:21    1439090

Any idea why this is fixed for Carrick on Shannon when the other 3 go to Croker? Seems an odd venue

Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 22/07/2013 18:14:37    1439229

Leitrim sees Championship action in late July, yesss........ Ahem. Donegal to win by 5.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1199 - 22/07/2013 18:18:23    1439232

Brianmac78
County: Dublin
Posts: 272

1439229
Any idea why this is fixed for Carrick on Shannon when the other 3 go to Croker? Seems an odd venue


As it was pointed out by another poster CoS is fairly accessible for both counties. Although it would have been great to have a day out in Croker, I still think this is a wise choice for both. That and the fact it's a great lively town for the after party or drowning of sorrows.

wile_man_sir (Donegal) - Posts: 150 - 22/07/2013 18:33:47    1439246

Brianmac78 According to Leitrim posters their pitch holds nearly 15,000. It's pretty much half way for both counties, is in neithers province and I can't see more than 12,000 attending. Atmosphere would be lost in a larger venue.

Markymark (Laois) - Posts: 644 - 22/07/2013 18:41:05    1439250

Health and safety must be an odd crowd as carrick had no bars behind the goal last time I was there but yet no cut to capacity it might officially hold 15 thousand but cannot see under health and safety nowadays it being allowed

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 22/07/2013 18:57:52    1439266

Does anyone know if any of the games are televised?

wile_man_sir (Donegal) - Posts: 150 - 22/07/2013 19:14:26    1439290

I hate losing, but I have no problem losing like we did to Monaghan. No excuses, ref decisions to blame, players to single out - we were beat up a stick all over the field. Thankfully we got a kick up the ass at a stage where there is still a second chance to fix it.

Thankfully we don't have to wait long for a chance to rectify our mistakes. The weight of being undefeated for these lads has been lifted, I hope theres a backlash that lasts until late September!

SeanieSense (Donegal) - Posts: 328 - 22/07/2013 19:15:26    1439293

hill16no1man
County: Dublin

The point is they didn't have q plan b when they were behind.
Playing an all out defense when your 5 points behind is not going to work when you have to score more then the team your playing. Monaghan aren't world bearers they just simply went point for point and Donegal didn't change their style of play which is very strange as anybody could see 3 points on the board with less then a half an hour to go that they needed to change

If donegal had of come out and played a traditional 15 vs 15 in the 2nd half it would play right into the hands of monaghans counter attacking gameplan yesterday. We would have beaten them by more if they done this. I agree that Donegal were not at there best yesterday but I think you need to give monaghan a bit more credit, they were fantastic yesterday and would have put it up to any team with that display.

white.n.blue (Monaghan) - Posts: 249 - 22/07/2013 19:16:26    1439296

Wile_man_sir,
I know RTE2 are showing Meath V Tyrone @ 7 on Saturday. Not sure about any of the other games. Have TV3 shown any qualifiers or do RTE have the qualifier rights?

Dubsfan28 (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 22/07/2013 19:21:45    1439306

Its very hard to completely change the flow of a game against a team who are hungrier and sharper which Monaghan were. We tried the high ball in to Murphy and it didn't work. What else can you do?!

____________________

With respect, You have to find out why Donegal didn't turn up. If the appetite isn't there or if they weren't as hungry then that's a problem and will ultimately end up in relinquishing your All Ireland crown.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13654 - 22/07/2013 19:26:28    1439313

Absolutely Wayno. But it's not a problem I didn't foresee. I said at the start of the season on here that I doubted we could maintain the same hunger. It's just very hard to do. With all the functions that be on and the 'fame' aspect of it and then an odd training session gets missed here an there.

I see you mentioned that you don't believe in the 'hunger' stuff because of what Kilkenny and Kerry I'm the past did. What would say is that if a team is vastly more skilful than anyone else then they don't need to be as hungry. The difference in skill offsets the lack of hunger if you will. I don't believe we have enough exceptionally skilled players though to compete in that way. We have to be firing on all cylinders to compete with the best. That's the difference

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 22/07/2013 19:50:09    1439341

Absolutely Wayno. But it's not a problem I didn't foresee. I said at the start of the season on here that I doubted we could maintain the same hunger. It's just very hard to do. With all the functions that be on and the 'fame' aspect of it and then an odd training session gets missed here an there.

I see you mentioned that you don't believe in the 'hunger' stuff because of what Kilkenny and Kerry I'm the past did. What would say is that if a team is vastly more skilful than anyone else then they don't need to be as hungry. The difference in skill offsets the lack of hunger if you will. I don't believe we have enough exceptionally skilled players though to compete in that way. We have to be firing on all cylinders to compete with the best. That's the difference

___________________

I suppose your right RE the likes of KK being vastly more skilful, But I don't agree that they don't need to be as Hungry.. Watch them from here on in. Wait until you see lads with 6 7 8 or even 9 All Irelands fight for everything.. Wait until you see them put their bodies on the line, And if they lose, Wait until you see how heartbroken they will be leaving the field. If they win the all Ireland wait til you see the jubilation then come back and tell me they aren't as hungry..

Ultimately I feel its up to the Manager and his staff to get his players focused. If that doesn't happen the manager is failing. Pat Gilroy for me failed last year as Dublin manager. He couldn't get the lads up for it. I hold him accountable for that. Does it mean he is a bad manager, Absolutely not I idolize the guy and I refuse to let 2012 and that year tarnish what he did in 2011. My point here is that if Jim McGuinness cant motivate his team to go out there and do two in a row again, He like Gilroy will ultimately have failed. And with Donegal no longer in D1, No longer ulster champions, They need to win the All Ireland, If they don't they go in to 2014 back at square one. In my opinion .. Like I said that's just my view on it.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13654 - 22/07/2013 20:01:50    1439354

White and blue

I'm not taking anything from Monaghan and don't mean to coma across that way I'm just pointing out they were not considered a top team and they proved my theory all year that Donegal had no plan b if they went behind in a match.
It could benefit Donegal now they will surely be having to plan for that happening them again and come up with another way of playing

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 22/07/2013 20:05:08    1439357

hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 5268

1439266
Health and safety must be an odd crowd as carrick had no bars behind the goal last time I was there but yet no cut to capacity it might officially hold 15 thousand but cannot see under health and safety nowadays it being allowed

They have complied with the Health and Safety report and put in all the barriers and extra gates etc. hence the capacity is back up to this level, they would not have got the game otherwise.

Nelson (Leitrim) - Posts: 142 - 22/07/2013 20:14:36    1439367

I respect your view Wayno but I don't agree with it. I think its harsh to place the blame on Gilroy and likewise Jim if the same outcome befalls Donegal. Sure you can try to motivate players but at the end of the day its up to the players to show the desire. And its not something you can really measure, not something you can see coming until its too late. Its just a lack of focus for a split-second, an instinctive decision, a half-hearted tackle when you are tired or a slightly wayward pass.

I wont doubt that Kerry players are not passionate, that they wont be gutted if they lose or delighted if they win. But the same can be said about Donegal - the players were devastated at the final whistle yesterday and gave everything they could right up until the end. But I dont class passion the same as hunger. We all want to do our best, but when you have achieved the ultimate then suddenly it just isn't do or die anymore. Standards drop by just a few percent and thats all it takes. Kerry and Cork players said last year that they were shocked by the intensity Donegal brought to the table, and its hard to match that when you are being forced to go to the well one more time

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 22/07/2013 20:55:18    1439406

hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 5268

1439357
White and blue

I'm not taking anything from Monaghan and don't mean to coma across that way I'm just pointing out they were not considered a top team and they proved my theory all year that Donegal had no plan b if they went behind in a match.
It could benefit Donegal now they will surely be having to plan for that happening them again and come up with another way of playing.

Neither were Dublin or Limerick hurlers regarded as "great" teams but that is the magic of Gaelic games. More power to all three of them & fully deserving winners.
As for Donegal hill it is not about not having a Plan B. They were just out of sorts all over the field & there are also half a dozen key players carrying long term injuries which because of lack of depth in the squad makes life difficult. The signs have been there But nothing should take away from Monaghan who if they can continue to play like tht will make life very difficult for everyone else, Dublin included.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 23/07/2013 09:01:11    1439504