Happy we won.

It's not the blood & thunder hurling of yesteryear but when you beat Tipp & Cork you have won a real traditional munster title.

I might be going against the grain but I thought it was a blatant red. I'm not being blinkered here, Tom Condon caught one of the Cork lads on the head with a 'tackle' 15 mins into the second half that should have been booked too. I'm all for manly physical stuff, but not to the head & I thought Horgan's flick was wild. That said he is not a malicious hurler.

Cork seem at a crossroads. The 2009 strike has not served cork well. The 2010 strike has helped propel Limerick hurling forward 10 years. I know the man's tenure is somewhat hated, but I think 2010 allowed Justin McCarthy bring in some new blood & this mixed with professional management and a few old heroes, has made us Munster Champions.

To be fair to Cork, we have now had 2 of their All-Ireland winning managers and we are very grateful for that. They are professional men who (Allen especially) has married the Cork possession game with Limerick's traditional game & got the best out of it. Cork hurling was a serious outfit 2004-2006 and now we have a chance of getting to that level.

For cork I would worry - not a lot of intensity, goal-less games. How they could do with JBM himself out there as they lack that lethal forward who would bring goals. And for anyone who saw him play, by God he was lethal.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 15/07/2013 14:22:31    1432322

'Horgan red card will definitely be rescinded, don't worry about that. Ridiculous decision that referees committee know was wrong plus GAA council will want to make sure KK are facing the toughest opposition possible. '

Banner boy you dont have a clue what you are talking about. Striking with hurley is a red card offence and 4 weeks suspension. If you think that quality of opposition has something to do with the diciplinary process then there is about the same chance of Kilkennys best player being suspended - just to even things out. Deciosion was correct going by letter of the law so should be upheld on appeal, even if harsh.

mr3see (Monaghan) - Posts: 34 - 15/07/2013 14:50:32    1432372

Reading some posts here saying horgans flick was wild and striking out is a red card, mmm is a flick not a flick hardly wild and as for STRIKING out striking = lashing i don't think you could say he lashed out still im of to specsavers some people are seeing stuff i have missed lol

monkstownrebel1 (Cork) - Posts: 353 - 15/07/2013 14:58:44    1432391

Agreed Mr3See

By the letter of the law, it was the correct decision. Being honest, I (personally) would not appeal. However, everybody always appeals everything these days so there will be an appeal.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 15/07/2013 14:58:58    1432393

mr3see
County: Monaghan
Posts: 27


Banner boy you dont have a clue what you are talking about. Striking with hurley is a red card offence and 4 weeks suspension. If you think that quality of opposition has something to do with the diciplinary process then there is about the same chance of Kilkennys best player being suspended - just to even things out. Deciosion was correct going by letter of the law so should be upheld on appeal, even if harsh.

(1) So virtually every single huling pundit/expert/public figure of note has said the red card was wrong but because I AGREE with them, I therefore "don't know what I'm talking about"?? It was a light tap, clearly unintentional, going for the ball. "The law is an ass" as the geat Charles Dickens wote! Yes it was wreckless and an absolute certain yellow card, but NOTHING MORE. To argue otherwise suggests to me you've never played the game to any serious level.

(2) To suggest the team (and the opposition) isn't taken into account with these disciplinary appeals is laughably naive on you part. Even at club level, you name, you club name and the teams left in c'ship are discussed behind the scenes. I know cos I've suffered fom it in the past!!

And did ya ever hear of a guy called Colin Lynch who in 98 was suspended from all-ireland semi final replay even though he was initially promised pemission to play by Munster Council (back when everyone started to hate Clare cos they were too successful)

Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.

banner_boy (Clare) - Posts: 1285 - 15/07/2013 15:03:47    1432407

Bannerboy, tell me under what rule will the red card be recended? Striking with the hurley on the head is a atraight red. It was not a vicious deliberate strike but he struck a player with the hurley on the head and thats a red card. I doubt very much if Cork will even appeal it, as Cork are a proud sporting county.

Clubgaa (Limerick) - Posts: 879 - 15/07/2013 15:04:18    1432409

Bennybunny

what are your thoughts on Cork hurling now? I think ye seem to lack some intensity of previous years?

I thought Cork didn't use Cussen wisely. Limerick's half back line took over in the second half & putting him centre forward might have been better.

Cork are more work in progress than we are but JBM will keep going to et it right like he did 96-99.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 15/07/2013 15:12:04    1432424

Clubgaa, in the name of God, there's a thing called COMMON SENSE! Go back and listen to wha the likes of Donal Og said about it on Sunday. There's the letter of the law and then the spirit of the law (ie common sense)

Go to pg 42 of the attached link:

http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/coaching_and_games/rules/Playing_Rules_of_Hurling_100110233127.pdf

Rule 5 extracts 5.1-5.4 all make reference to striking (or attempting to strike) with hurl)carrying a red card penalty but clearly this applies only with intent. There was no intent whatsoever from Horgan, eyes were on the ball 100% of the time.

If you go by the letter of the law, all the times we see lads poking the butt of the hurl into opponents' ribs as they're squaring up to each other - these should ALSO be red card offences if we go by your logic!! But we don't see that..ever! Why?! Cos of a thing called COMMON SENSE!

Incidentally as a side point, look at 5.12 - "To contribute to a melee". Again if you applied the letter of the law, half of both teams would have to been sent off yesterday even tho it was only handbags.

Use you common sense in the name of God!!

banner_boy (Clare) - Posts: 1285 - 15/07/2013 15:20:11    1432438

Banner boy, for your information, I have played hurling at inter-county level. I have refereed at inter county level. I have sat on diciplinary committees, hearings committes. I know what I am talking about.

As for the pundits, like most supporters and players, most of them dont know the rules of the game and generally take the populist view.

As for Colin Lynch, like the rest of your argument, there is more roumour and inuendo than hard facts.

mr3see (Monaghan) - Posts: 34 - 15/07/2013 15:26:19    1432449

mr3see
County: Monaghan
Posts: 28

1432449
Banner boy, for your information, I have played hurling at inter-county level. I have refereed at inter county level. I have sat on diciplinary committees, hearings committes. I know what I am talking about.

Well now if that's true mr3see (which I don't for a second believe it is), then I can only assume you're a very slow learner.

Like I said in my last post, it's all about intention. There was no intention whatsoever in Horgan's actions.

And if you apply the letter of the law without common sense (as you appear to be promoting), then you'll be left with 6-7 sendings off per team and total farce.

And what facts were ommitted re: Colin Lynch affair that you want?? Colin, Ger Loughnanne and Pat Fitzgerald (chairman of Clare GAA) were promised that Colin could play in this famous "hearing" only to be rang on phone 2 days before the replay to be told, "actually , no, sorry." (or words to that effect).

banner_boy (Clare) - Posts: 1285 - 15/07/2013 15:36:34    1432475

Anyone who states that horgans sending off was the correct decision cannot ever have played or been involved in hurling..It was a yellow at worst.The ref ruined the game with his terrible decision and thats why people get frustrated.Players train hard and to be on the end of a decision like that with so much at stake is so wrong..

Bigdong (UK) - Posts: 66 - 15/07/2013 15:40:06    1432486

The real issue about the Pat Horgan incident is the inconsistency of the way the "striking" rule is implemented. Two players were yellow-carded later in the game: both were digging each other deliberately with their hurls (striking even??) but remained on the field. If anything their actions were worse that the incident that resulted in the straight red. There are similar instances in other games where clear strikes get a yellow card - that's what leads to players like Horgan feeling hard done by.

football first (None) - Posts: 1259 - 15/07/2013 15:40:13    1432487

@bannerboy:

(1) So virtually every single huling pundit/expert/public figure of note has said the red card was wrong but because I AGREE with them, I therefore "don't know what I'm talking about"?? It was a light tap, clearly unintentional, going for the ball!!

Sorry there lad, every pundit claimed it was "harsh" not wrong: going by the law, it was a red card end of story- I was at the game and to be honest I thought a yellow would have been more warranted but a yellow would not have been correct going by the playing rules!!
Anyhow, go way now and leave us enjoy our victory, cos the banner thought they had munster this year,,,, now that is clearly WRONG ! Luimneach Abu

luimneachboy (Limerick) - Posts: 242 - 15/07/2013 15:42:41    1432496

luimneachboy,

Heartiest congrats on your victory, richly deserved. There might have been some dilluded Clare fans boasting of future Munster/All irelands but I wasn't one of them. I think we're massively over-rated to be honest and I fear Galway will expose us if we don't start improving our terible score conversion rate.

But as for your comment re: the pundists saying it was "harsh" rather than wrong", can you not tell the wood from the trees??! They clearly felt it was the WRONG decision (but didn't want to go down the road of slating referees). But you know it was the wrong call from a common sense perspective (as does everyone else with half a brain).

As I said earlier, technically referee was correct but "the law is an ass". If you go by the letter of the law in modern day hurling you end up with 7 players per side sent off and total farce. I've said enough on this now so won't be commenting on it again.

banner_boy (Clare) - Posts: 1285 - 15/07/2013 15:52:50    1432527

Anyone who states that horgans sending off was the correct decision cannot ever have played or been involved in hurling..

Well then I'm bucking both your arguments!

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 15/07/2013 15:57:27    1432539

SLAYER: Will you behave yourself...All of the sunday game panelists said it was more or less the wrong call and they have been at the top of their game for many years either playing or coaching...You are entitled to your opinion,of course you are, but, your opinion is wrong..I would hate to be playing a game with you reffing it, jaysus there would be no-one left on the pitch by half time..

Bigdong (UK) - Posts: 66 - 15/07/2013 16:24:54    1432588

SLAYER: Will you behave yourself...All of the sunday game panelists said it was more or less the wrong call

This is not actually what they said though?

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 15/07/2013 16:37:51    1432614

Definitely wrong decision to send him off. I've seen worse tackles in a warm up. Player went down because he got hit with the ball. Obviously lost it in the sun. If Cork meet Limerick again this year I'd fancy Cork. Unfortunately their record in recent years against Kilkenny hasn't been great and even if they win that they face a strong Dublin outfit.

What a difference a ref makes!!!

I think what makes it worse is the amount of tackles this year that merited a booked or a sending off that went unpunished. Wexford v Dublin and Kilkenny v Offaly matches spring to mind.

Are the refs rooting for the underdog this year or are they genuinely making mistakes? It would be interesting to hear the refs opinion of it after the game to either explain the decision or admit it was wrong. Maybe get the refs on the Sunday game and let them defend themselves.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 15/07/2013 16:46:13    1432630

slayer
County: Limerick


1432614 SLAYER: Will you behave yourself...All of the sunday game panelists said it was more or less the wrong call

This is not actually what they said though? [/I]

Eddie Brennan said "No way, a yellow card was more than enough for that offence"

Donal Og said "It was extremely harsh......... referees are encouraged to use common sense and because of that it wasn't a reason to send him off"

Ollie Moran said "No definitely not"

I hope that confirms what the panel on the Sunday game said.

Bigdong, you must surely know by now that the RTE hurling analysts never see anything wrong with any hurler or any aspect of the game. These lads seem to have an unwritten rule that no player or incident was dirty, they never say anything controversial or negative about hurling. Its all one big happy family with hurling men unlike the football pundits.
The red card was given for striking with the hurley across the players head. The ref cannot determine how hard the pull was or if there was intent, all the ref can do is see a hurley striking a players head and he sends that player off. Simple as that. Horgan did not pull dirty but he was careless with his wild swing as it was no where near the ball and it cost him and his team. I would also say that the sliotar hitting O'Briens helmet and the Sun were factors, but once the ref saw a swinging hurley hit a playrs head, he had to give him a red card.

Clubgaa (Limerick) - Posts: 879 - 15/07/2013 16:56:06    1432640