Oh ulsterman the irony indeed ! I read your post 20 mins ago and ive only stopped laughing now ! You 're talking about people being intolerant and your from which province ? Oh yeah sorry i forgot your username answers that ! ULSTER ! Also i could'nt give a damn where a team is from if they play the game in the right spirit and manner but aside from a few games where tyrone played super football in winning their AI 'S most games involving ulster teams are dour to say the least ! i cant speak for anyone else but for you to say that people resent ulster teams winning purely because their nordies is in my opinion absolute rubbish ! The only reason i would resent a team winning is if they play the game negatively a charge that can be levelled at most ulster teams ! My resentment has nothing got to do with geographics so stop being so paranoid and INSULAR !

DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 941 - 25/06/2013 15:06:15    1415302

Joxer
County: Dublin
Posts: 1097
the perpetrators should have been dismissed for repeated cynical fouling.

It was a bit late for you joxer but Joe Brolly & Maurice Deegan fairly put a stop to it in the final!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 25/06/2013 15:34:20    1415336

Not liking what you call "negative" football is all vey fine DJ but why resent teams when they play in the way that suits them best?
The only reason Dublin play the way they do is because they have great forwards & a dodgy defence. For them to win they have to go hell for leather as they know they are going to cough up a lot of scores at the back.
Other teams have much better defences but poorer forwards so they play to their strengths. Neither approach is right or wrong, just different & certainly nothing to get resentful about. The contrast is fantastic & it would be great to see 2 sides with differing styles play is a final come Sept.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 25/06/2013 15:41:56    1415345

True MR. We simply weren't good enough last year anyway, all tactics aside. Our heads weren't in the games so the manager shake-up this year came at the right time.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 25/06/2013 15:42:49    1415350

MuckrossHead
It was a bit late for you joxer but Joe Brolly & Maurice Deegan fairly put a stop to it in the final!!

Donegal done it for most of the 2nd half without it being stopped. I dont see how you can make that claim. Did you watch the game?


joxer, no i didnt prove your point. The ethos, which is what you are complaining about, was exactly the same. The only real difference was that dublin needed goals earlier, but then timing has nothing to do with the ethos you are highlighting, has it?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 25/06/2013 15:51:05    1415362

Also joxer, a stronger referee would have had dublin down to 14 men also, when varley was assaulted on the ground, but then just throw that in with the other over-sights. The brogan goal chance winning the game is another, despite A) you lost by 4 B) mayo had 3 goal chances of their own C) 2 of dublin's points in the comeback shouldnt have been given as they were either a 45 that shouldnt have been or a free for a fair tackle.

The reality is your protests are proving my point, you had no issue with these tactics when dublin were 'semi-employing' them, therefore it is a bit rich to have an issue now.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 25/06/2013 15:58:36    1415372

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7425

1415362
MuckrossHead
It was a bit late for you joxer but Joe Brolly & Maurice Deegan fairly put a stop to it in the final!!

Donegal done it for most of the 2nd half without it being stopped. I dont see how you can make that claim. Did you watch the game?

Ah Master, the old selective memory playing tricks on you again. All the head high dangerous stuff was coming from Mayo. The only reason they let up a bit was that so many of them were on yellow cards!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 25/06/2013 16:07:25    1415390

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7431

1415372
Also joxer, a stronger referee would have had dublin down to 14 men also, when varley was assaulted on the ground, but then just throw that in with the other over-sights. The brogan goal chance winning the game is another, despite A) you lost by 4 B) mayo had 3 goal chances of their own C) 2 of dublin's points in the comeback shouldnt have been given as they were either a 45 that shouldnt have been or a free for a fair tackle.

The reality is your protests are proving my point, you had no issue with these tactics when dublin were 'semi-employing' them, therefore it is a bit rich to have an issue now.

--------
Master seriously this is becoming embarrassing at this stage. If you're going to continue to make a fool of yourself then the least you can do is get your facts right. You say we lost by 4, I thought it was 3 but I'll double-check for you. Let's hope you're right but just like your other 'facts' I'd doubt it. Were you even at the game?

Your monotonous meanderings and attempts to go off topic bring me back to the point of blanket defences. I'm no fan of them. I'm not sure what relevance the semi-final rugby match last year has on that but obviously you were keen to point out Mayo's deserved, but possibly tarnished due to cynical tactics, victory. Remind me of what tactics you deployed, semi or whole, in the final as I want to make sure that we avoid that 'system' whatever it was.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 25/06/2013 18:01:51    1415488

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 6140

1415211
The biggest gripe for the serial anti-Ulster brigade is the simple fact that 'themmuns up there' are successful at times and that is what is really biting them. The GAA, while it purports to be a 32 county Association, can be very insular, parochial and partitionist and many within the GAA outside Ulster just cannot stomach the success of Armagh, Tyrone and Donegal. It doesn't matter what style these teams play; they are seen as 'not of the state, outside the group...yes even Donegal' by large parts of the South and the media there. As some have said much of football in the 60's, 70's and 80's was as dirty and cynical as hell and there were probably more awful ganes then than now BUT there was little outcry when teams whalloped and beat each other all over the field. It was deemed 'mannnleeeey shhhtuffff' but that's because it was mostly Dublin, Kerry, Offaly, Cork, Meath etc.....then came the Nordies and it all changed suddenly. Football in the 21st century is being viewed through rose tinted, nostalgic nonsense and much of the populace are reacting like dopey sheep and swallowing a lot of it. As I say this is nothing to do with the way the game is being played; you only had to witness the disgraceful xenophohobic Southern campaign against a Northern side Derrytresk, against a Kerry side, to witness the loathing these people have for 'Nordies' in all walks of life. These are probably the same crowd who give off about Nigerian taxi drivers and Eastern European hotel workers; many of them are just intolerant of 'outsiders' and this from a country whose history is written through emigration and struggles in other countries. Oh the irony!

In fairness this is nothing to do with a dislike for Ulster its simply people wondering is the style of football we saw on Sunday which is becoming more common good for the association.People have a far too nostalgic view of the past but it doesn't take away from the fact that adjustments need to be made to Gaelic Football the game has outgrown the rules in the last 10 years or so.I'm as big a defender of modern football as you'll get but I still think improvements can be made to the game and when you see people who are gaelic football fans constantly complaining about the game then it needs to be looked at.

Did people complain about Ulster football in the early 90's?

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 25/06/2013 20:08:33    1415580

uibhfhaili1986
County: Offaly
Posts: 129

In fairness this is nothing to do with a dislike for Ulster its simply people wondering is the style of football we saw on Sunday which is becoming more common good for the association.People have a far too nostalgic view of the past but it doesn't take away from the fact that adjustments need to be made to Gaelic Football the game has outgrown the rules in the last 10 years or so.I'm as big a defender of modern football as you'll get but I still think improvements can be made to the game and when you see people who are gaelic football fans constantly complaining about the game then it needs to be looked at.

Wouldn't disagree with any of that Uibhaili. What gets us at times is the charge that what football has evolved into is all down to us. You would swear to God that all football played in the 60's 70's & 80's was free flowing exhibition stuff wheras even a casual perusal of big games from the period show us an error ridden, slapdash mes with a few classy moments here & there.
Improvements need to be made, fair enough, the black card will do away with a lot of cynical fouling & moving the ball up 20 -30 metres for spoiling & messing would fix a lot of the rest of it. Apart from that, short of making it a 13 a side game, then I would say leave well enough alone.
Last Sunday's game had 21 scores, a total soccer & rugby can only dream about & yet to listen to some on here it was a borefest, unwatchable, puke football. It's hard to avoid the feeling that some of these comments are motivated not from a love of pure football but jealousy & spite.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 25/06/2013 20:36:35    1415604

Joxer- your getting a little bit like Spillane, you need a few more phrases etc, you once hit me with the statement 'this is getting embarrassing at this stage'. Do what Donegal do and mix it up a bit for your come backs. I sense your running out of good material

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 25/06/2013 21:04:43    1415619

More guff going on here about last years's games, give it over lads.

As for football being in decline (original topic), it certainly isn't the free flowing game of before but so many things have changed. I do detect a "blame Ulster" theme which is very unfair, when you realise that that province is so difficult to get out of, managers have to come up with different ways to get an advantage on opponents. It also has an open draw so when you consider Donegal's draws of the last few years, no wonder they've had to change their way of playing. Other counties can plan for August at the start of the year, the Ulster teams have to plan for much earlier, due to it being a very unfair and lopsided Championship. I tried to explain to my son-in-law who was in Cavan with me on Sunday (he's from Wisconsin), that if Cavan lose next Sunday, they are in the exact same position as Roscommon, Waterford and Clare, despite those 3 counties having won no game this year and Cavan winning TWO! He just shrugged his shoulders and had a bewildered look. Bottom line is that football styles change every few years, some new coach will come up with innovative ideas in the next year or two and we'll move on. Personally speaking I think the Meath team of the late 80s were the best to watch, combined brain, brawn and skill. While Kerry were nearly completely dominant for 12 years, they had very little opposition.

Salmanneile (Longford) - Posts: 113 - 26/06/2013 09:48:00    1415704

Salmanneile
County: Longford
Posts: 32

1415704
More guff going on here about last years's games, give it over lads.

As for football being in decline (original topic), it certainly isn't the free flowing game of before but so many things have changed. I do detect a "blame Ulster" theme which is very unfair, when you realise that that province is so difficult to get out of, managers have to come up with different ways to get an advantage on opponents. It also has an open draw so when you consider Donegal's draws of the last few years, no wonder they've had to change their way of playing. Other counties can plan for August at the start of the year, the Ulster teams have to plan for much earlier, due to it being a very unfair and lopsided Championship. I tried to explain to my son-in-law who was in Cavan with me on Sunday (he's from Wisconsin), that if Cavan lose next Sunday, they are in the exact same position as Roscommon, Waterford and Clare, despite those 3 counties having won no game this year and Cavan winning TWO! He just shrugged his shoulders and had a bewildered look. Bottom line is that football styles change every few years, some new coach will come up with innovative ideas in the next year or two and we'll move on. Personally speaking I think the Meath team of the late 80s were the best to watch, combined brain, brawn and skill. While Kerry were nearly completely dominant for 12 years, they had very little opposition.


Kerry had to deal with great teams from Cork, Dublin, Roscommon and Offaly, all of which would have easily won All-Irelands in any era.

Cute_Kerry_Hoor (Kerry) - Posts: 2518 - 26/06/2013 09:56:34    1415708

Selective memory indeed muckross. The guy made a point about repetitive cynical fouling, yet your defence is referencing plain old stupid fouls that are obvious yellow cards. You are off topic here. The point was on repetitive cynical fouls, something donegal engaged in throughout the final. Therefore, the only selective memory around here is your own, not to mention your deliberate attempt to change to point of the debate. The thing is I have accepted that foul was a daft tackle and deserved a yellow, yet you avoid the subject of donegal's cynical team-fouling throughout the game, if not the entire championship. Just like you refuse to comment on the eye-gouging we have seen donegal engage in this year. In reality, why should anyone engage with you on the troubles of their own county or any other county, when you actively avoid commenting on those of your own? Particularly when your own county are now widely regarded as the most cynical team in the country (something I was saying all last year also).

joxer you are right, it was 3 points, that point should have been if BB's goal went in it would have been a draw, not a dublin win...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 26/06/2013 10:12:15    1415716

Great post from Offaly1986 great points made, and Ulster football in the early 90's was great to watch some of the football was unreal. Martin Mchugh and Donegal back then were a joy to watch Down of the early 90's had a great team hard to believe they only won 2 all Ireland's and the same with that great Derry team how did they only win 1 all Ireland. That's when football was great to watch nowadays I don't know what is going on in some games.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 26/06/2013 10:12:25    1415717

We get this thread set up on a yearly basis when there are a couple of poor provincial games. People will change their opinions again when we get to the last round of the qualifiers and into the quarters in July/August when the men get separated from the boys and the top teams meet. Dublin, Mayo, Donegal, Cork are the 4 provincial winners for me and along with Kerry, Tyrone and a couple of other good qualifiers round off the last 8 and the rubbish "football in decline" thread will be put away in the cupboard till next year.

Dubsfan28 (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 26/06/2013 10:22:02    1415724

I think people are jumping the gun a bit early in relation to this thread.

I personally dont think football is in decline - the top teams are simply getting better and better each year.

The Donegal and Down game is obviously what started this thread - it was a horrible, windy, wet day for a game of football - not exactly championship weather. Both teams were lauded for their performances in their quarter finals.

hashtag (Donegal) - Posts: 37 - 26/06/2013 10:43:47    1415741

25/06/2013 21:04:43
TheRightStuff
County: Donegal
Posts: 235

1415619 Joxer- your getting a little bit like Spillane, you need a few more phrases etc, you once hit me with the statement 'this is getting embarrassing at this stage'. Do what Donegal do and mix it up a bit for your come backs. I sense your running out of good material

-----
Well RS, if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck....chances are it's a duck. As Roy Walker used to say, "say what you see".
As for Donegal being able to mix it up............Hhmmmm. :)

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 26/06/2013 10:48:46    1415747

26/06/2013 10:12:15
TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7433

joxer you are right, it was 3 points, that point should have been if BB's goal went in it would have been a draw, not a dublin win...

----

Master, my opinion has changed of you. I've the utmost respect for any man who admits when he is wrong.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 26/06/2013 10:55:47    1415755

Cute_Kerry_Hoor

"Kerry had to deal with great teams from Cork, Dublin, Roscommon and Offaly, all of which would have easily won All-Irelands in any era."

This is the cute kerry hoor coming out in you I'm afraid. Between 1975 and 1986 Cork won ZERO All-Irelands, Roscommon won ZERO All-Irelands, Offaly won ONE and Dublin won THREE All-Irelands. To call three of these teams GREAT is laughable. The Dublin team of the 70s deserve great credit but I won't consider them GREAT!

Salmanneile (Longford) - Posts: 113 - 26/06/2013 11:07:41    1415761