lilywhitemagic
County: Kildare
Posts: 1560

I think Jim Gavin will learn that the hard way for this year and he may retweak the style Dublin are playing now for next year it is just to naieve in the modern game.

I think you should concentrate on your own county and forget about Jim gavin and Dublin, 5 years on and kieran mcgeeney,is still learning the hard way,5 years of naievity in the modern game.

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2850 - 24/06/2013 18:43:05    1414645

ormondbannerman
County: Clare

Football is not in decline but if more games were played in similar vein as todays Donegal Down game then yes the sport of Gaelic Football would suffer greatly
That game was horrible viewing at times. Teams with 12/13 players in their own half when in possession and then breakin up field - horrible viewing

Yeah that sounds very similar to Rugby. Explains why it's awful viewing.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 24/06/2013 18:43:11    1414646

Dubjohn.. What if your teams strength is defending? Every manager and team entitled to use their own tactics.

I really enjoyed yesterday's game - great tactical battle and some great tackling. It's ridiculous to expect teams to play man on man all the time.

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 24/06/2013 18:51:59    1414656

lilywhitemagic
County: Kildare
Posts: 1560

1414623
Brain mac I believe that was the hot sentance in 2011 the gaa need Dublin to win the all ireland it would be great for gaelic games what difference did it make none to any of the other 31 counties your not going to change a county's style overnight just because a certain team won the all Ireland playing 'attacking' football and to be honest I think Jim Gavin will learn that the hard way for this year and he may retweak the style Dublin are playing now for next year it is just to naieve in the modern game.
----
You've missed the point. In 2011 the logic behind the argument that a Dublin title would be good for the GAA was that it would boost the popularity of the game in the capital. I presume that Brian Mac's reason in 2013 is that it may convince some other counties that playing football is the way to go.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 24/06/2013 19:31:05    1414684

As a lifelong lover of the Ulster Championship I enjoyed yesterdays game. The game has evolved and maybe it does not make good viewing for the neutral but you have got to give Donegal credit they have set their stall out and its up to the rest overcome it. No one will fancy facing Donegal in the first weekend in August.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1792 - 24/06/2013 19:32:16    1414685

I watched the Donegal-Down game on TV, as a neutral, and found it enthralling. Intense, physical and whole-hearted. Some of the cynical fouling is a negative, though - it's a pity the sinbin was rejected.

football first (None) - Posts: 1259 - 24/06/2013 20:26:09    1414723

I agree with the lads who say Dublin winning the all ireland will encourage teams to play more attacking football, just like Kerry winning all ireland is the 00's encouraged teams to play a more attacking brand of football. Oh wait

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 24/06/2013 20:29:09    1414727

Joxer....

That was exactly the point I was trying to make.

Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 24/06/2013 20:36:32    1414738

DUBJOHN
County: Dublin

Any good team should win by playing to their own strengths and not by trying to stop the opposition from playing theirs !

You are a funny man DJ. What you describe as "trying to stop the opposition" is called defence. Even Dublin have been known to try it now & again though admittedly they are not very good at it.

The Donegal panel is not huge, they don't have the depth Dublin have. Where they are very strong in in 1-6 so it makes sense to base their team around those players. If Donegal tried to go man to man against Dublin they would get killed but using the "system" they are a match. So why in the name of God would JMcG change? it is a team game after all. For my own part I love watching good defensive play especially when it is turned quickly into counter attack and the crowd in Breffni yesterday really enjoyed the game. I can understand why i isn't everyone's cup of tea but I think it is great to see teams using contrasting styles & I would love to see a Donegal Dublin final. The whole country would be tuned in!!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 24/06/2013 20:46:05    1414751

JOXER...Muckross .....23,000 odd people there today who really enjoyed..
exactly!
joxer, let me explain.....23,000 ODD people ...get it? ...ODD.....Oh never mind.................

beal (Mayo) - Posts: 1388 - 24/06/2013 21:57:08    1414845

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 1474

1414751
DUBJOHN
County: Dublin

Any good team should win by playing to their own strengths and not by trying to stop the opposition from playing theirs !

You are a funny man DJ. What you describe as "trying to stop the opposition" is called defence. Even Dublin have been known to try it now & again though admittedly they are not very good at it.

The Donegal panel is not huge, they don't have the depth Dublin have. Where they are very strong in in 1-6 so it makes sense to base their team around those players. If Donegal tried to go man to man against Dublin they would get killed but using the "system" they are a match. So why in the name of God would JMcG change? it is a team game after all. For my own part I love watching good defensive play especially when it is turned quickly into counter attack and the crowd in Breffni yesterday really enjoyed the game. I can understand why i isn't everyone's cup of tea but I think it is great to see teams using contrasting styles & I would love to see a Donegal Dublin final. The whole country would be tuned in!!!

----------
Dublin must has been pretty good at it to win an AI with similar tactics. We were also unbeaten in the league that year until the final when we blew a lead against Cork.

Your argument is that Donegal are very good 1-6 and that's it. Yet they probably have the best inside forward line in the country. So if you agree then are you trying to justify these tactics based on a poor midfield and half forward line? If so then most teams in the country are in this position. Most other teams would relish having that Donegal defence and those forwards so using the 'weak squad' angle as an excuse for playing 14 men in your own parallelogram just doesn't cut it. Having said that I agree with the general principle of teams playing to their strengths. I just think Donegal, with that talent, could offer much more in footballing terms.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 24/06/2013 22:02:01    1414858

Joxer
Dublin

Your argument is that Donegal are very good 1-6 and that's it. Yet they probably have the best inside forward line in the country. So if you agree then are you trying to justify these tactics based on a poor midfield and half forward line? If so then most teams in the country are in this position. Most other teams would relish having that Donegal defence and those forwards so using the 'weak squad' angle as an excuse for playing 14 men in your own parallelogram just doesn't cut it. Having said that I agree with the general principle of teams playing to their strengths. I just think Donegal, with that talent, could offer much more in footballing terms.

I am not saying that we are good from 1-6 only, but that as a team we are better at stopping others scoring than scoring ourselves. Yes the full forward line is top class but the half forward line is not selected to shoot the lights out because we don't have half forwards who can do that. Our half forwards are instead there to support the full forwards, midfield & half backs, a job they do very well. Yes they will chip in with the odd score but primarily they are there as support.
As for playing 14 men in our own parallelogram, well that is just not true. Yes we are defensive minded but let's not lose the run of ourselves here. Dublin are set up the way they are because it suits the resources at their disposal & the mindset of their manager, Donegal likewise. If you look back at last year they played a lot of good attacking football & if we get everyone back fit will do so again this year.
Looking forward to the rest of the summer.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 25/06/2013 08:59:52    1414881

Joxer
No tactics on this earth were going to counteract the fierce rugby tackles that the Mayo players put in that day. You cannot blame Dublin tactics when we threw the kitchen sink at Mayo but we were pulled down left right and centre. Cian Healy would have been proud of some of the tactics at the Hill 16 end that day. Mind you it worked.

Tackles which dublin got their scores from. The reality is mayo outclassed dublin for 3/4s of the game and deservingly got through. Furthermore, dublin employed the same tackles against laois in the previous round, albeit on a smaller scale, but then laois didnt need goals 5 minutes into the 2nd half like dublin did. Again, you are critical of one team for using a particular ethos but not your own. You cant have it every way.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 25/06/2013 09:53:29    1414918

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7412

Again, you are critical of one team for using a particular ethos but not your own. You cant have it every way.

The words pot, kettle & black spring to mind here.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 25/06/2013 10:54:18    1414972

Give me an example of a mayo player gouging an opponent's eye muckross. If you can do that then you can make that claim. Although, when I bring that point up you usually run a mile.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 25/06/2013 11:13:04    1414986

cuchulainn35
County: Armagh
Posts: 750

1414196 Bunnybenny,

The game has evolved at alllevels

Back in the 70's and 80's the football was really poor at all levels and there is a number of reasons for this:-

1. In the mid &0's Thomand College opened up and started PE courses - Jordanstown a few years earlier - there was little PE taught in Ireland in the early 70's. Now every the U-8 coach knowns about tactics and the fundamentals of the game....
2. We all look at the game /weather with rose thinted glasses - there were good/bad and awful games in the past - but there was also fewer games
3. Munster was and is poor - no tipp/Waterford/limerick/clare teams have succeed at senior level since 1992 - that's reality - we don't hear about the great Tipp- Waterford battle in football because it won't happen etc
4. Ulster and Leinster are competitive because the focus is in coaching at an early age - also they have the population centres ( ignore Antrim)
5. I said earlier to get 25,000+ people to drive 2+ hours in a car is self evident that this is what the people want....
6. How many went to watch the Milton Masacure - Kerry 9-25 Clare 0-5 ( or something) attendance 300 people - that's reality

I know the game has evolved at all levels. I don't think I ever said that it had not. To comment on your points:

1. That was a great move. Fair play to them.
2. 100% agreed.
3. Don't know what point you are making here. The competition is not great at senior intercounty level hence the competition is poor but you cannot logically conclude/say the standard is poor. Two counties (one in particular) are much better than everybody else (but that would include all counties in Ireland-historically and generally speaking) as both Kerry (and Cork in some cases) lead the way in pretty much all levels (senior, minor, junior, u21, club etc) and have done throughout history. Plus, Limerick, Waterford, Tipperary, Clare have produced excellent minor/under 21 club sides in the past. These minor or club teams do not play minor or club teams from other provinces hence neither of us can say that the standard is better or worse in Munster/Connacht/Ulster. Plus if you are going to gauge football standards in Waterford (for example), then I suggest you go regularly to watch the Nire/Kilrossanty etc (Maybe you do or have done)
4. Munster have populations centres as well. I agree that the Ulster council is by far the best and most proactive in terms of developing quality football coaching. However, we can all access their stuff. I borrow their stuff because I think it is top notch. We are all GAA men after all and what we produce is to be shared. In hurling, guys like Paul Flynn, Donal Og, Diarmuid O Sullivan regularly bring their hurling knowledge up to Ulster.
5. Not necessarily self evident as many people that were at the game also complained. Stating 21+ is not that meaningful. How many people did not go? Is that not self evident that people don't really like it. I would not make that argument. I don't think you should use the converse either.
6. I'll take your word for it. People would have known that was not going to be competitive hence the paltry attendance. However, that scoreline does not tell us if the game was foul ridden, if there was cycnical fouling etc. That stats don't lie. Last Sundays game was utter drivel. It was drivel as there was only a score from play every 10 minutes, there was mass defence, it was littered with fouls. Frankly, in my opinion it was absolutely terrible. So much so that I did stop watching after 45 minutes. But don't confuse this with critcism of Ulster football as I can show you plenty of horrible stuff in Cork/Kerry matches too. The problem is with Gaelic football (and mainly it is confined to senior intercounty stuff) and it can be changed/reversed by simply enforcing the rules that already exist.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 25/06/2013 13:15:03    1415139

The biggest gripe for the serial anti-Ulster brigade is the simple fact that 'themmuns up there' are successful at times and that is what is really biting them. The GAA, while it purports to be a 32 county Association, can be very insular, parochial and partitionist and many within the GAA outside Ulster just cannot stomach the success of Armagh, Tyrone and Donegal. It doesn't matter what style these teams play; they are seen as 'not of the state, outside the group...yes even Donegal' by large parts of the South and the media there. As some have said much of football in the 60's, 70's and 80's was as dirty and cynical as hell and there were probably more awful ganes then than now BUT there was little outcry when teams whalloped and beat each other all over the field. It was deemed 'mannnleeeey shhhtuffff' but that's because it was mostly Dublin, Kerry, Offaly, Cork, Meath etc.....then came the Nordies and it all changed suddenly. Football in the 21st century is being viewed through rose tinted, nostalgic nonsense and much of the populace are reacting like dopey sheep and swallowing a lot of it. As I say this is nothing to do with the way the game is being played; you only had to witness the disgraceful xenophohobic Southern campaign against a Northern side Derrytresk, against a Kerry side, to witness the loathing these people have for 'Nordies' in all walks of life. These are probably the same crowd who give off about Nigerian taxi drivers and Eastern European hotel workers; many of them are just intolerant of 'outsiders' and this from a country whose history is written through emigration and struggles in other countries. Oh the irony!

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9825 - 25/06/2013 14:12:05    1415211

24/06/2013 21:57:08
beal
County: Mayo
Posts: 471

1414845 JOXER...Muckross .....23,000 odd people there today who really enjoyed..
exactly!
joxer, let me explain.....23,000 ODD people ...get it? ...ODD.....Oh never mind.................

I get it, I get it. It wasn't lost on me, ehhem...

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 25/06/2013 14:16:48    1415225

Joxer
County: Dublin
Posts: 1095

1415225
24/06/2013 21:57:08
beal
County: Mayo
Posts: 471

1414845 JOXER...Muckross .....23,000 odd people there today who really enjoyed..
exactly!
joxer, let me explain.....23,000 ODD people ...get it? ...ODD.....Oh never mind.................

I get it, I get it. It wasn't lost on me, ehhem...

Good man Joxer, I hadn't a clue what he was on about either, way too subtle for me!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 25/06/2013 14:52:00    1415275

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7419

1414918 Joxer
No tactics on this earth were going to counteract the fierce rugby tackles that the Mayo players put in that day. You cannot blame Dublin tactics when we threw the kitchen sink at Mayo but we were pulled down left right and centre. Cian Healy would have been proud of some of the tactics at the Hill 16 end that day. Mind you it worked.

Tackles which dublin got their scores from. The reality is mayo outclassed dublin for 3/4s of the game and deservingly got through. Furthermore, dublin employed the same tackles against laois in the previous round, albeit on a smaller scale, but then laois didnt need goals 5 minutes into the 2nd half like dublin did. Again, you are critical of one team for using a particular ethos but not your own. You cant have it every way.


Master
albeit on a smaller scale You've made my point here really haven't you? Thanks. Like I said, how can you combat a team who has 15 players in their parallelogram and rugby tackles you anytime you attempt to get anywhere near the goal?? With a decent referee Mayo would have been down to 12 men with 10 mins to go. Who was the referee that day anyway? How could you possibly blame Dublin's tactics for this? You say we got scores from the resulting frees anyway. Once again, not the point, the perpetrators should have been dismissed for repeated cynical fouling and the time wasting that resulted was of course unfair on Dublin, who were trying to play football at the time.

It's old ground anyway and my comments, which are my own views, on the blanket defence stand.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 25/06/2013 14:58:27    1415290