I didn't have any problems with today's Donegal v Down game. Down paid a price for some misplaced passing. I can't say I like the over emphasis on hand passing. That's not just based on today's game. Many teams around the country are inclined to over use the hand passing. It's down to congress to vote in a change allowing 4 consecutive handpasses or something like that. If there's no change there regards rules of play and people are happy as things are, I don't see how there can be too many complaints.

Today's game was a competitive game. Down had to cut down their mistakes amongst other things were they to get something from the game. They were unable to do so. Donegal for their part had the answers.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9003 - 23/06/2013 21:45:43    1413797

Perhaps with players being much fitter and faster in the modern game, the pitch has become a much smaller place to play.

Can we really fault teams for making themselves better organised, and more tactically aware?

Around 22,000 people attended Donegal v Down today, that exceeded last years semi final with Tyrone ( 17,500 attendance ).
Making people turn off their tv's isn't a bad thing, not if they do it in order to attend the game in person.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 23/06/2013 21:52:10    1413818

Thought today's game was engrossing. I think it is great to see a good level of strategy and tactics brought into football, it adds a good sub plot to the action itself. Once one is well informed of each teams approach the tactical battle itself makes interesting viewing. Great to see a player along with his team mates in possession passing the half way line having to get their heads up and brains working on how to work the ball in for a score, give me that over hurling any day where a player in the same position will generally either lump the ball over the bar or wide, makes hurling boring to watch in my opinion.

daradasi (Wicklow) - Posts: 120 - 23/06/2013 21:56:38    1413834

beal
County: Mayo
Posts: 457

1413720
Muckross .....23,000 odd people there today who really enjoyed..
exactly!
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Ireland got capacity crowds at Jack Charlton games because he was successful but nobody thought it was football or good to look at. As long as counties are successful, regardless of style, they will get the crowds. If Donegal were beaten by Tyrone and then got knocked out of the qualifiers, the Donegal Daily would be all over McGuinness and his tactics, with team having been relegated also. However, if he continues to win then people will point to the end and not the means.

For the neutral it is terrible to watch. You can admire the athleticism and the discipline but the lack of skill and pace means that it's not a great spectacle. That's just my view. I prefer fast free flowing football with good accurate foot passing but if others don't and prefer slow build ups with 40+ hand passes then fair play but I would hate to see every team adopt these tactics. This isn't a criticism of Donegal just a general criticism of the way the game is going and yes Dublin semi-deployed these tactics to effect a couple of years ago but I was no great fan of that either. Still I guess it's effective.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 23/06/2013 21:56:58    1413836

If Down got a late goal and point, today's game would've been hailed as a great game. What's bothering some people is Donegal were not beaten. It is understandable. There's a natural inkling to want the underdog to win. With Donegal in recent years, that's not likely to happen. Who can stop them this year? Mayo or Dublin seem the only counties capable of possibly doing so.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9003 - 23/06/2013 21:59:02    1413841

Funny enough though joxer, when dublin 'semi-employed' it 'a couple of years ago' (wasnt it last year?) you werent on here pointing out how boring they are or how lacking in skill they are...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 24/06/2013 09:49:01    1413898

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7399

1413898 Funny enough though joxer, when dublin 'semi-employed' it 'a couple of years ago' (wasnt it last year?) you werent on here pointing out how boring they are or how lacking in skill they are
__________________________
+1

p.s. you either employ something or you don't employ it, 'semi-employ' my a$$!

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 24/06/2013 09:55:16    1413905

On the game itself, many are pointing out down's mistakes, and understandably so, but even with these, they were very unlucky. Thompson over-carried in front of the posts and got a free out, o'hare hit the post from a free and the ball fell to a donegal man in space, that is just bad luck. Also, some are saying the ref was too picky, how exactly? I dont recall him calling many incidents that were not fouls. In fact I think he was not harsh enough on guys deliberatly fouling miles back the field to stifle attacks. I thought the ref was very good actually - thompson decision apart.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 24/06/2013 09:59:33    1413910

Bunnybenny,

The game has evolved at alllevels

Back in the 70's and 80's the football was really poor at all levels and there is a number of reasons for this:-

1. In the mid &0's Thomand College opened up and started PE courses - Jordanstown a few years earlier - there was little PE taught in Ireland in the early 70's. Now every the U-8 coach knowns about tactics and the fundamentals of the game....
2. We all look at the game /weather with rose thinted glasses - there were good/bad and awful games in the past - but there was also fewer games
3. Munster was and is poor - no tipp/Waterford/limerick/clare teams have succeed at senior level since 1992 - that's reality - we don't hear about the great Tipp- Waterford battle in football because it won't happen etc
4. Ulster and Leinster are competitive because the focus is in coaching at an early age - also they have the population centres ( ignore Antrim)
5. I said earlier to get 25,000+ people to drive 2+ hours in a car is self evident that this is what the people want....
6. How many went to watch the Milton Masacure - Kerry 9-25 Clare 0-5 ( or something) attendance 300 people - that's reality

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1691 - 24/06/2013 13:19:41    1414196

The game was not for the purist but it was a typical close fought Ulster Championship game.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1792 - 24/06/2013 13:28:09    1414211

Not in Dublin it's not...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 24/06/2013 13:29:49    1414215

The rules definitely need to be changed unfortunately Liam O''Neill appointed the wrong people to be in charge of the rules comittee he needed people who had played the game in teh last 10 years or so and who understand the modern game.The black card will have minimal influence on how football is played and its the way it is being played with far too much emphasis on defence that is the issue not cynical fouling or handpassing.

13 a side would creat more space which is what is needed for more entertaining football.

Also with 13 a side a restriction on players behind the 65 shoudl be introduced.If only 9 of the 13 players (including goalkeeper) were allowed beind the 65 think how much more enjoyable games would be there would be a lot more space and alot more entertainment in my opinion.It probably would be difficult for linesmen to keep and eye on but if the punishment for breaking this rule was harsh (say a 21 meter free straight in front of the goals) players would cop on fairly soon.The best way to legislate for overly defensive tactics is to just outlaw them.

There is nothing wrong with the players skills the issue is that it is too easy to focus almost entirely on defence and be relatively successful in Gaelic football.It doesnt take a huge amount of skill to defend in numbers just organisation and discipline.As Dublin showed in 2011 the best way to defeat Donegals tactics is handpass through them with pace so handpassing should definitely not be restricted.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 24/06/2013 13:47:14    1414252

the way to beat the 2 arms outstretched type of tackle is to play the ball on the ground soccer-style. then the tackler will clearly not be attempting to play the ball and the ref will be obliged to give a free.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5522 - 24/06/2013 13:54:30    1414259

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7403

1413898 Funny enough though joxer, when dublin 'semi-employed' it 'a couple of years ago' (wasnt it last year?) you werent on here pointing out how boring they are or how lacking in skill they are...

---

Actually I was Master, several times. Would I have mentioned Dublin if I wasn't? We deployed it for the last 2 years, probably to a lesser extent last year in fact and this was evidenced by a horrible league campaign.

I was one of Giller's biggest critics when it came to tactics. It has to be said also that Dublin never deployed it to these extremes anyway. 40+ hand passes to get from one end of the pitch to the other would put the Harlem Globetrotters to shame. IMO there is nothing skilful about guys fisting a ball to each other a couple of feet apart. Fair enough these teams have great athletes but I go to Santry for the athletics not a gaelic football ground. If it is so great and entertaining, with all of these big crowds and all, then why did the majority of neutrals want Dublin to beat Donegal in 2011??? What would the crowds be like for Donegal's Div 2 league campagin next year of they were knocked out of the championship early?? Again this isn't a direct criticism of Donegal, rather the manner in whcih the game is going in general. The problem with this style is that it spreads like cancer as the only way to combat it is to either outshoot it (few counties have tha ability to do that) or adopt a similar system to nullify the quick counter-attack. The result is that traditiional footballing counties will, or have, adopted the same approach.

Like most, I go to games to see the skills being executed well, fielding, shooting, foot-passing with pace and power. I don't go to watch a line of 12 guys running in unison in a straight line together handpassing the ball sideways rugby union style. Still each to their own and all of that.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 24/06/2013 13:58:41    1414267

I didnt hear you giving out about/blaming dublin's tactics when they got eliminated last year with a convincing beating joxer. I thought you said you were quite vocal about it? Surely that would have been the time where you would have pointed out you were right all along?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 24/06/2013 16:03:00    1414455

UibhFahili1986

Your ideas are interesting but I think they would be very difficult to referee and they involve a seismic shift (ie a change to 13 a side). That will not happen soon. The black card does not solve anything with blanket defences as all players are defenders. With five subs allowed to be brought on, each outfield player can commit a cycnical foul each (that is 19 a game) without so much as getting a booking (and that is when the ref is being strict-sometimes they just get away with it). When both teams do it, there is the potential to have 38 fouls in a game. Cynical fouling is a tactic that is part and parcel of the blanket defence (it slows the game down and allows defences to set up). We can tackle that without a rule change. We need referees to do it and we need the media to support it and point out the cyncial fouling.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 24/06/2013 16:31:02    1414495

24/06/2013 16:03:00
TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7407

1414455 I didnt hear you giving out about/blaming dublin's tactics when they got eliminated last year with a convincing beating joxer. I thought you said you were quite vocal about it? Surely that would have been the time where you would have pointed out you were right all along?

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No tactics on this earth were going to counteract the fierce rugby tackles that the Mayo players put in that day. You cannot blame Dublin tactics when we threw the kitchen sink at Mayo but we were pulled down left right and centre. Cian Healy would have been proud of some of the tactics at the Hill 16 end that day. Mind you it worked.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 24/06/2013 17:34:01    1414575

Football needs this Dublin team to win the all Ireland. If they do you know several teams will copy there approach and the Dublin approach is how it should be, attacking, none of this malojan of 12/13 behind the ball 42 handpasses to get in the other teams half.

Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 24/06/2013 17:54:26    1414601

Whether football is in decline or not is a matter of opinion but what is not in doubt is that the game is no longer enjoyable to watch its just so negative and its fact that the tactics that have brough the game to this level were ulster "born" Just because games in ulster are tough bruising encounters with little between the teams at the end of the game doesnt mean ulster football is better it just means the teams are more evenly matched ! Yeah it might be exciting to watch a game go to the wire but it doesnt excuse the fact that a lot of these matches are horrible to watch just because some of these teams have good footballers who can get the odd spectacular score from 35 or 4o yards out doesnt excuse the fact that a lot of the football they play is tripe ! Ulster negativity has ruined our game ! Any good team should win by playing to their own strengths and not by trying to stop the opposition from playing theirs !

DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 941 - 24/06/2013 17:57:31    1414606

Brain mac I believe that was the hot sentance in 2011 the gaa need Dublin to win the all ireland it would be great for gaelic games what difference did it make none to any of the other 31 counties your not going to change a county's style overnight just because a certain team won the all Ireland playing 'attacking' football and to be honest I think Jim Gavin will learn that the hard way for this year and he may retweak the style Dublin are playing now for next year it is just to naieve in the modern game.

lilywhitemagic (Kildare) - Posts: 1693 - 24/06/2013 18:18:12    1414623