down called donegals bluff today...dublin did it in 2010...teams now know the way to give them a game...get 13 men behind the ball and let them come at you

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 23/06/2013 19:10:53    1413547

Down adapted their tactics today and rightly so. If they'd gone for it they'd have been eaten up and spat up by Donegal like everyone was last year. Down actually just did what Cork were trying to do last year but stuck with it. Keep possession, force the packed defense between the 45 and 65 to shift left to right and patiently try and probe for a break. RTE were saying they should be letting it in with the wind but that's 50/50. For me what they were doing was logical and if they stuck some more of their chances we'd be calling McCartan a genius.

On the negative side I have to say the referee drove me mental. Donegal are masters of the half-foul, just a wee tug here and push there. Of course if he stopped for everyone of these everyone'd be giving out about him so he can't win but it's when he signals advantage when all you're looking into is more opponents that makes no sense. Players just end up off balance or struggling for control of the ball when they're by their men. Also Donegal's forwards seem to have actively practised carrying the ball, bouncing and soloing with one hand while pushing off their marker with the other which is just not in the rules. Watch the Sunday Game tonight and watch how many scores they got off it. Bottom line is where there is an ambiguity in the rules most obviously around the tackle McGuinness uses every trick in the book to push them to the limit. He's always done it and winning an All-Ireland doesn't change that.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 23/06/2013 19:13:30    1413555

doublehop
County: Kildare
Posts: 3245

1413555
Down adapted their tactics today and rightly so. If they'd gone for it they'd have been eaten up and spat up by Donegal like everyone was last year. Down actually just did what Cork were trying to do last year but stuck with it. Keep possession, force the packed defense between the 45 and 65 to shift left to right and patiently try and probe for a break. RTE were saying they should be letting it in with the wind but that's 50/50. For me what they were doing was logical and if they stuck some more of their chances we'd be calling McCartan a genius.

On the negative side I have to say the referee drove me mental. Donegal are masters of the half-foul, just a wee tug here and push there. Of course if he stopped for everyone of these everyone'd be giving out about him so he can't win but it's when he signals advantage when all you're looking into is more opponents that makes no sense. Players just end up off balance or struggling for control of the ball when they're by their men. Also Donegal's forwards seem to have actively practised carrying the ball, bouncing and soloing with one hand while pushing off their marker with the other which is just not in the rules. Watch the Sunday Game tonight and watch how many scores they got off it. Bottom line is where there is an ambiguity in the rules most obviously around the tackle McGuinness uses every trick in the book to push them to the limit. He's always done it and winning an All-Ireland doesn't change that.

This sums up a lot of the posters on here. So desperate to see Donegal get beat that they see things in a very biased way.

So you see it like this:
- Down played ultra defensive and rightly so - ok so you say fair play to Down but yet Donegal get roundly criticised for being not as defensive.
- Donegal are masters of the half-foul. Crazy, both teams tackled the same way. Down were tugging players in the same way. There is only a difference if you want to see a difference.
- Donegal players are trained to use one hand to hand off opponents - dont you see how ridiculously biased this makes you look? Its just crazy to think that Donegal have somehow invented this (nor do they do it any more than other teams)

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1429 - 23/06/2013 19:24:03    1413570

Benjyyy

+1

Lifford Gael (Donegal) - Posts: 1925 - 23/06/2013 19:31:32    1413582

worst,most negative game i ever seen..atleast in leinster we actually play football

the seal (Meath) - Posts: 583 - 23/06/2013 19:34:59    1413586

for all the bull i listened to on the way home from the game - the fact is 25,000 + people traveled on average 2 hours or more to get to a ground to watch the all-ireland champions v down

now how many were At the Cork/Clare game which is very accesable or Portlaoise etc, people want to see a tight contest and we got it, im for one delighted i went

well done down you nearly did it

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1688 - 23/06/2013 19:42:57    1413591

Benjjy is right, I think that people have to start to become balanced about this. The rules are ambiguous full stop. Steps for instance. Every single forward in the country over carries, and gets away with it. What about physical contact other than a shoulder? also against the rules, but hard to imagine a game of Gaelic football without an element of physicality and full contact.

Down were just as apt today in the 'half foul' whatever that is, as we were considering the rules as the rules are written.

Time for some people to grow up a bit. If Monaghan or Cavan come out the next day and do what Down did, play the same way and win that is, I will be here to congratulate them. But Im quite sure if it is the same type of a game as today, and we win, the moaners will be out in force re donegal's negativity.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3849 - 23/06/2013 19:45:20    1413594

I've never criticised Donegal's style of play. In terms of tactics and formations I've never criticised anyone actually. And I'm not biased, I didn't want to see a difference, why would I? Kildare have lost to both sides in big matches recently so what would make Donegal so special that I would be specifically after ye? I just saw what I saw and that's my opinion. Maybe they don't practise the hand off but certainly McFadden and Murphy routinely use it to a noticeable degree. And if you don't see the half fouls every time an opponent comes anywhere near a Donegal player I don't know what to say to you. It must be only yourself and Joe Brolly who doesn't.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 23/06/2013 19:54:35    1413609

Yet again I find myself in agreement with Doublehop. Benjjy - I don't think Doublehop is criticising Donegal. The half-foul is something Donegal are very good at and fair play to them. Let other teams exploit this if they want. So far Donegal do it best.

Down can be happy with their performance, disappointed with the outcome. They played far better than I predicted. They played with the right attitude from the start. Donegal are just that bit more seasoned than Down in terms of physique and score-getting. Don't forget in 2011, Donegal struggled for scores in a lot of games.

Former_Poster (Meath) - Posts: 394 - 23/06/2013 19:59:20    1413614

Doublehop...you missed benjyyys point....the half foul as you call it was carried out by both teams today....why single out Donegal...? Maybe you should learn what the word 'biased' actually means. If you want Down to win fair enough but at least be man enough to admit that that's what's clouding your judgement!

Lifford Gael (Donegal) - Posts: 1925 - 23/06/2013 20:07:53    1413618

Just back from Cavan & still saying decades of the rosary in thanks.
A really tough hard game played in dreadful conditions with rain & a very strong swirling wind. Not an open flowing game but the weather on its own wouldn't have allowed that but Down got it exactly right & gave everyone the template as to how to beat Donegal. The other thing I noticed was the fitness levels which were unreal, the intensity of the game never let up from beginning to end & we have McFadden's & Murphy's accuracy to thank for being in an Ulster final.
It wasn't a great game for the purist but like the Tyrone game it was a real contest of a type no other province can provide.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 23/06/2013 20:08:39    1413620

the seal
County: Meath
Posts: 555

1413586 worst,most negative game i ever seen..atleast in leinster we actually play football

Donegal has put two very good division 1 teams out of their provincial championship, just to reach the final. How many Leinster teams have to do that? Ulster is by far the most challenging province and sometimes it may not be pretty but a win is a win. This notion of Ulster sides not playing 'proper' football is getting really really old!!!!

wile_man_sir (Donegal) - Posts: 150 - 23/06/2013 20:13:53    1413625

doublehop
County: Kildare
Posts: 3249

1413555
Down adapted their tactics today and rightly so. If they'd gone for it they'd have been eaten up and spat up by Donegal like everyone was last year. Down actually just did what Cork were trying to do last year but stuck with it. Keep possession, force the packed defense between the 45 and 65 to shift left to right and patiently try and probe for a break. RTE were saying they should be letting it in with the wind but that's 50/50. For me what they were doing was logical and if they stuck some more of their chances we'd be calling McCartan a genius.

On the negative side I have to say the referee drove me mental. Donegal are masters of the half-foul, just a wee tug here and push there. Of course if he stopped for everyone of these everyone'd be giving out about him so he can't win but it's when he signals advantage when all you're looking into is more opponents that makes no sense. Players just end up off balance or struggling for control of the ball when they're by their men. Also Donegal's forwards seem to have actively practised carrying the ball, bouncing and soloing with one hand while pushing off their marker with the other which is just not in the rules. Watch the Sunday Game tonight and watch how many scores they got off it. Bottom line is where there is an ambiguity in the rules most obviously around the tackle McGuinness uses every trick in the book to push them to the limit. He's always done it and winning an All-Ireland doesn't change that.




+1

TheGateKeeper (Tyrone) - Posts: 2843 - 23/06/2013 20:16:49    1413626

Exactly, its biased. Down tackled in exactly the same way. Take your goggles off and watch the game again and you will see the number of jersey tugs and arm around the shoulder stuff from Down. Same for off the ball hits and niggling. The number 24 came on to the pitch and the first thing he did was grab neil mcgee by the shirt and throw him to the ground judo style. But of course only Donegal will be seen to do any unsavoury stuff.

My point is that you bring up all these things after we win to insinuate that these are the reasons we have won. They weren't because Down played the same way and did the same things. We won because of Murphy and McFadden's accuracy from long range. Thats really all there was between the 2 teams

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1429 - 23/06/2013 20:19:07    1413628

51longago
County: Mayo
Posts: 2426

1413363
clondalkindub
County: Dublin
Posts: 3648

1413314
God that was puke football at it's best, what has happened to our game lads?


It's sad pal, really sad that its come to this, we just have to hope the Dionegal way fails this year and others stop trying to copy it.

Clondalkin & 51longago, the Laurel & Hardy of HS!!!!

Lads, ye have just both been shown how to beat Donegal. Down weren't too proud to adapt & surely with the silken talents oozing out of Mayo & Dublin it should be no bother to you. The only question is have ye got it in you to adapt? I think not myself.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 23/06/2013 20:25:33    1413637

I'm not suggesting it's why Donegal won but it had an influence on the result. Down of course are no angels, who is, but for me Donegal are for more proficient at it to the point where it forms a key part of their defense. You don't agree fine but you don't need to go down the paranoia "no-one like us, we don't care" route either.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 23/06/2013 20:38:31    1413657

Doublehop

Explain the no one like us - we don't care' paranoia that you speak of...? Trying to locate it here but can't....?

Lifford Gael (Donegal) - Posts: 1925 - 23/06/2013 20:43:32    1413664

the seal
County: Meath
Posts: 555

1413586
worst,most negative game i ever seen.

If that is the worst most negative game you have ever seen then you don't get out much..

at least in leinster we actually play football.

No you don't. Dublin & Kildare play football. The rest of you play a pale imitation.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 23/06/2013 20:52:44    1413680

It was good to see the ref move up a free for encroaching and ironic that it was in donegals favour hopefully that's a trend that will continue. Regarding today's match I'd say the ref did ok and limited the dark arts as much as he could. At the end of the day Donegal won fair enough with McFadden once again showing his worth.

jonno (Kildare) - Posts: 261 - 23/06/2013 20:58:33    1413696

Lifford Gael my point is the minute I criticised Donegal I was accused of having some sort of agenda or vendetta against ye. That I'm being biased against ye. That sounds like paranoia to me.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 23/06/2013 21:08:07    1413718