so was barcelona dominance in spain bad for soccer
is bayern/dortmund dominance bad for germany
was ajax/liverpool/madrid previous dominance in europe bad for soccer
was Pete Sampras/Roger Federer dominance at Wimbledon bad for tennis

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 09/06/2013 13:56:07    1402221

kerryluck
County: Kerry
Posts: 1315

1402221
so was barcelona dominance in spain bad for soccer
is bayern/dortmund dominance bad for germany
was ajax/liverpool/madrid previous dominance in europe bad for soccer
was Pete Sampras/Roger Federer dominance at Wimbledon bad for tennis

Not in the slightest and the same for your own county when they had a grip on Sam.

Only in Ireland would you get people whinging about a truly great team being bad for a sport. Fair play to Kilkenny they come back time and time again. It's for others to try and knock them now.

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1075 - 09/06/2013 14:19:06    1402232

Dead right Sams, never come across as much rubbish. Fair play to Midleton for the most bitter and appalling post I've ever seen on HS. Long may your county's drought last

wicklu (Wicklow) - Posts: 331 - 09/06/2013 14:41:14    1402242

kerryluck
County: Kerry
Posts: 1315

1402221
so was barcelona dominance in spain bad for soccer
is bayern/dortmund dominance bad for germany
was ajax/liverpool/madrid previous dominance in europe bad for soccer
was Pete Sampras/Roger Federer dominance at Wimbledon bad for tennis

Your arguments fall down on one simple fact: all of those sports you mention possess far more competitors as well as far more top class competitors than do hurling. You are struggling in vain to prove that Kilkenny's long dominance is good for the sport of hurling. Can we not just accept that you have your opinion and I have mine and leave it at that?

Midleton (Cork) - Posts: 644 - 09/06/2013 14:50:42    1402244

wicklu
County: Wicklow
Posts: 94

1402242
Dead right Sams, never come across as much rubbish. Fair play to Midleton for the most bitter and appalling post I've ever seen on HS. Long may your county's drought last

Thank you for your own bitter little rejoiner Wicklu. I have tried to be fair and if I have come across as bitter, I created a false impression. The best of luck to Wicklow, by the way.

Midleton (Cork) - Posts: 644 - 09/06/2013 14:55:53    1402246

I think some posters are incorrect and unfair on KK especially about fouling. Just look at Offaly v KK, Offaly's Ill discipline has cost them dear, so if you go physical v KK you concede frees and scores. But Tommy Walshe today was terrific, a great hurling head on him. So its easy to say KK foul and are cynical that is not true. They are more sinned against than sinners.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4954 - 09/06/2013 15:17:39    1402249

The question posed by JonCarter is not a difficult one to grasp. However, we have a mixture of those that are getting extremely defensive when it comes to KK (NOBODY IS DOUBTING THAT KILKENNY ARE NOT THE BEST TEAM OF ALL TIME) and those that think that a the dominance of one team is not good for the sport (WE ALL AGREE THAT THIS IS NOT KILKENNY's FAULT-apologies for shouting but some people simply are NOT getting the message).

In any sport, a team will dominate for small periods of time (KK have now dominated for 13 years with no end in sight). We must then ask does the dominance of this team bring the other's on or not (of course it is not dominant team's responsibility to bring others on)? Essentially, is it healthy for competition? That was the simple question, posed by JonCarter. Midleton is one of the few people that actually tried to answer the question and instead of people rationally arguing with him, they attack the county that he is from (ie Wicklu).



Who asked was Barcelona dominance bad for soccer in Spain? Well, they failed to win two in a row in the champions league (hardly dominance)and most of the so called top teams in Spain (such as Malaga/Valencia/Deportivo/Villreal) went pretty much bankrupt keeping up with them. For that example, I would say that their dominance (they have dominated like KK have)

Celtic's dominance in Scotland is killing the game there as the attendances are way down.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 09/06/2013 18:50:37    1402439

Arock, you must remember that every time a referee blows his whistle for a foul, doesn't mean it was an actual foul, it just means that the referee thought it was a foul, remember as well that sometimes the best option to take is to foul and that all a lot of counties can do is foul the Kilkenny man because they are that good.

On the basis of Kilkenny's dominance, what to lads want to happen, have Kilkenny take a step back and make everybody look great but not be that good at all. In all honesty Kilkenny have got great players, as Kerry did in the late 70's and early 80's, and as Offaly did in the 90's, the one thing in common is that great players don't last forever, and are very hard to replace. You'll find that Kilkenny are getting closer to the pack than pulling away from it

Ballyboy95 (Offaly) - Posts: 20 - 09/06/2013 19:15:28    1402468

Kilkenny have raised the standard so thats a good thing. Its up to the other counties to raise the bar.
Having said that I think this year is wide open and even Limerick Clare or Dublin could win Liam.

Sheedy (Galway) - Posts: 107 - 09/06/2013 19:20:29    1402475

what is the point of this thread?

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 09/06/2013 19:55:21    1402520

kerryluck
County: Kerry
Posts: 1316

1402520
what is the point of this thread?

A strange question from someone who has contributed a few posts to it.

The question was asked, or meant to be asked, whether the dominance of one team was good for a sport. It was a fairly good question, and there have been various answers. This is a discussion forum, where people like to give opinions. A lot of people availed of the opportunity to giver their opinions.That was the point of the thread.

Midleton (Cork) - Posts: 644 - 09/06/2013 20:02:46    1402527

Midleton
County: Cork
Posts: 207

1402527
kerryluck
County: Kerry
Posts: 1316

1402520
what is the point of this thread?

A strange question from someone who has contributed a few posts to it.

The question was asked, or meant to be asked, whether the dominance of one team was good for a sport. It was a fairly good question, and there have been various answers. This is a discussion forum, where people like to give opinions. A lot of people availed of the opportunity to giver their opinions.That was the point of the thread.

u just disagree with anyone that gives a good point as to why it is no harm for a sport. and it was for hurling not a sport? since u seem to dismiss any other point about another sport, u are really all over the place with your arguments, laughable is the only word for your points

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 09/06/2013 20:10:02    1402532

kerryluck
County: Kerry
Posts: 1319

u just disagree with anyone that gives a good point as to why it is no harm for a sport. and it was for hurling not a sport? since u seem to dismiss any other point about another sport, u are really all over the place with your arguments, laughable is the only word for your points

So I should just agree with everyone who disagrees with me? You tried to put forward points which you felt supported your argument. Believe me, I can be persuaded by a good argument and admit it if I think I've got it wrong. But your arguments went nowhere near doing that. So you do what someone who can't win always does: you disparage me.

Midleton (Cork) - Posts: 644 - 09/06/2013 20:52:50    1402568

KK raised the standard to a high in 08/09. Does anyone really believe they have continued to raise the standard since then?

Is Tyrell, Dealney, Walsh, and even Shefflin better hurlers now? There is no doubt in my mind that other counties have been plodding a long. Every county has there golden era...this is undoubtedly Kilkennys where everyone else is struggling to be anywhere near their best

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 10/06/2013 08:41:31    1402649

Silly comment, Kilkenny are awesome and it's up to the other counties to raise their game to get to the same level.
Saying that it is depressing every year seeing them win.

Nick (Wexford) - Posts: 1100 - 10/06/2013 09:14:41    1402667

Kilkenny have been the greatest thing to happen to hurling since the game was formed.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 10/06/2013 09:21:54    1402675

KK raised the standard to a high in 08/09. Does anyone really believe they have continued to raise the standard since then?

This is a fair point. The All-Ireland final of 2008 put Kilkenny on a different planet to all the rest. The finals of 2009 & 2010 were superb spectacles of hurling. Since then maybe the standard has remained as it was, or gone slightly backwards.

But to be the best it is pretty straightforward that you need to beat Kilkenny along the way.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 10/06/2013 09:48:35    1402700

I think our first half performance proved that Kilkenny are good for hurling. Not too many teams would of got that intensity out of Offaly in the first 35 minutes. In Kilkenny's defence they probably never passed 3rd gear but we made sure they worked for it and it wasn't the hammering everyone was expecting. Saying that, I wasn't pleased with the amount of fouling we were doing. It was obviously something the players were told to do. I don't know how many times we actually dragged players to the ground but it was a lot. Limerick hurled a lot like Kilkenny yesterday, they hunted in packs and never gave up.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 10/06/2013 10:22:59    1402748

Kilkenny are not so dominant at minor (last won in 2010, are the second best in Leinster for a few years) or U21 (last won 2008, lost two AI finalssince) level. So the tide may be turning. Does that now mean as Kilkenny aren't winning as much underage that hurling is getting better? What if its because Kilkenny's standard is waning? Should that waning standard be celebrated?

For the moment the question of the thread is; Is Kilkenny's dominance good for hurling?

From a promotion point of view, probably not as people are aware that Kilkenny will most likely win anyway. It might turn people off.

From a sporting point of view, no its not a bad thing. While we all want to see competitive games, we want to see games at a higher standard as well. Kilkenny set the highest standard. And if other teams aren't good enough, or capable enough to reach it, then Kilkenny are obviously going to dominate. You can't blame Kilkenny for the failings of other teams, or for Kilkenny taking advantage of that. And if it forces other teams to up their levels, then so be it.

People for beyond Kilkenny are probably sick of Kilkenny winning, but that's not their problem. So is Kilkenny's dominance bad for hurling? No. Because you've some of the greatest players ever, under the greatest manager ever, playing some of the most skillful and efficient hurling ever played and setting a standard that on very few occasions can be matched. How can that be bad for hurling?

Even from a promotion point of view, while it may bee predictable, having so many great players is also great publicity for the game. Anybody who goes to league games in Kilkenny will find clubs from plenty of different counties there to watch JJ Delaney, Tommy Walsh, Michael Fennelly. Young lads from Kildare, Meath, Westmeath, Antrim, Roscommon and Longford have been brought down to league games in Kilkenny the last few years to take part in blitzes before those league games through arrangements with the Kilkenny CB. These young lads then get to see multiple AI winners, some of the greatest players ever, strut their stuff. Surely that has to be good for hurling?

You want to see the best teams set the highest standard, and Kilkenny do that, its up to others to follow suit. So yes, while it mightn't be at the moment from a promotion point of view, form a sporting and competitive [point of view Kilkenny's dominance is good for hurling because it will force teams to improve, get better, and maintain the higher standard or fall away. You can't do anything half-assed anymore, or drop your standard. Which can only be good for hurling.

dblackandamber (Kilkenny) - Posts: 92 - 10/06/2013 11:01:22    1402799

dblackandamber

That is an excellent response. I commend you on your sense of balance and fairness in your answer. It is great that hurling intensity has been raised and we are all privileged to witness the great players that play it -who are all gentlemen as well it should be pointed out.

Somebody made the point that we got the best out of Offaly for 30 minutes yesterday and that is down to them playing KK. I don't necessarily disagree with that but some of their intensity and exuberance went overboard and one or two of their players might consider themselves very lucky to to have come back out for the second half (a couple of 'tackles' on TJ Riad, Fogarty and Richie Hogan could have received stiffer punishment). I hate players getting sent off and it would have ruined the game but rules need to be enforced.

Ollie Baker may have made a valid point about Offaly not having played at that level this year yet, hence the number of fouls.

In terms of the promotional aspect of the games, the dominance of one team probably is not a good thing. The ironic thing about following sports is that supporters (in general and en masse) are more likely to attend games where they have a chance of losing then an almost certainty of winning. Hence, give say KK dominance, there most likely will be more KK fans at games v GAlway/Tipp (in league games even) than championship games (there are other factors as well of course).

The question by blackandamber was do we want to see Kilkenny's standard decline? To that, I would answer definitely not.
I would like to see their dominance decline and in an ideal world to be replaced by no one team dominating (including Cork-not going to happen anyway).

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 10/06/2013 11:40:43    1402846