I looked at this thinking it was about making new animals, ah well

iarmhi_an_mhaith (Westmeath) - Posts: 279 - 05/06/2013 17:55:22    1399660

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 5881

1399153 As an outsider looking in I'll never understand the Ulster attraction to Clones.

It is the worst of all the major venues in the GAA. I've been to, I think 6 big championship games there and it is easily the worst ground/town I've ever been to for that purpose.

Ya must have gotten a bad pint in the Paragin MesAmis?? Golden rule of Ulster final in clones is too stick to bottles at all times! :)
Seriously though I love Ulster finals in clones and I am willing to give Casement a fair attemt to replicate that but I'm fearful it won't be the same. Clones is such a quiet town, the Ulster final is probably the highlight of the year for most of the people in it. Even if they are not going to the game itself people still go up the town and add to the atmosphere. Will Belfast be the same?

white.n.blue (Monaghan) - Posts: 249 - 05/06/2013 18:39:14    1399712

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 5882

1399153
As an outsider looking in I'll never understand the Ulster attraction to Clones.

It is the worst of all the major venues in the GAA. I've been to, I think 6 big championship games there and it is easily the worst ground/town I've ever been to for that purpose.

It's a total kip but it's our kip. I love the place. The atmosphere in the town, the crowds on the streets, all the pubs full, walking up the hill to the ground in baking heat, walking down into the Hill. Had some horrible soul-destroying days there but some great ones too.

I think a town like that is perfect for a provincial final. Casement will be a disaster in comparison. Clones takes in the entire town and the stadium It's all a part of the day.

May not have the glamour of Killarney or Thurles but there's no better place to be on Ulster Final day.

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1075 - 05/06/2013 19:01:30    1399737

drumlinbelt
County: Monaghan
Posts: 81

1399011
Tyroneed
Just for you !!
The "design" of Clones is find a Hill and put a football pitch at the bottom of it.
Premium seating can be found in the Oak Trees on a grassy knoll overlooking the west end of the ground.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=492311590823740&set=a.490117327709833.1073741840.428814233840143&type=3&theater

----

Thanks drumlinbelt. You can't get that at the Nou Camp!

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 05/06/2013 19:12:28    1399749

Samisforthehills, Gatekeeper, white n Blue

Fair enough lads, I'd say the tradition has a big part to play in the attraction?

I've been to Championship matches in all provinces and have just never warmed to Clones. The town for me is too small and the traffic was horrendous anytime I was there trying to get home. And Dublin were only involved the one time so the other times I wasn't even going the same way as the majority!

Every time I've been in the terrace running alongside the pitch too opposite the stand. Has there ever been a terrace built so far away from the pitch?! As a spectator your miles away from the action!

I've been to Casement a number of times and I think a redeveloped ground there would be an excellent venue and surrounding for big games. Eventhough it's located in the East I would've thought transport wise it wouldn't be too bad, time wise rather than distance, for most of the province or am I wrong in thinking that?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13797 - 05/06/2013 19:28:10    1399765

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 5886

I've been to Casement a number of times and I think a redeveloped ground there would be an excellent venue and surrounding for big games. Eventhough it's located in the East I would've thought transport wise it wouldn't be too bad, time wise rather than distance, for most of the province or am I wrong in thinking that?

I'm from Donegal so can't give a realistic answer to that question. It takes us near enogh 90 minutes to get to Ballybofey for a game, god forbid we have to leave the county!

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1075 - 06/06/2013 10:32:35    1399979

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 798

1399363 squareball - I noticed yesterday that it only took 2 replies for it to move to an anti-Casement agenda and was going to post then but didn't as the post was about the layout of Clones. However, when it continued in the same vain then as an Antrim man I felt compelled to respond.

Why is do you think that mostly only Antrim/Down posters within Ulster that are in favour of Casement Park and are against either Clones or a better more Central Stadium in Tyrone??

Let us not forget that All Ireland series, National League finals, League semi finals etc will all still remain within Croke Park. So Casement Park will mainly host Ulster Championship games, and perhaps club games too. Antrim will likely play there National League matches in it.
So like Clones, the bulk of the crowd for big Casement Park games will travel by car on the day and journey home straight afterwards.

To people outside of Ulster, Casement Park sounds a great Location as it is located in Belfast City, Ulster's largest City. But when you consider It's Location to the extreme east of Ulster, and the terrible road network in Ulster, It is not a great choice.
Anybody peddling rubbish about Belfast facilities are living in a dream world. That would make sense if All Ireland quarter finals or games that were drawing huge crowds from Southern counties were to be hosted there on a regular basis, as it would then be catering for large crowds possibly staying overnight.

If you can have a Provincial Stadium that is 30-45 mins from 95% of Ulster's GAA fans, would that really not be better than a Stadium that will mean a 2 hours drive from over 50% of GAA fans?
Come on now, get over your own prochial priorities and think of the bigger picture.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 06/06/2013 12:48:01    1400157

GaryMc - you ask the question why is it only Antrim and Down posters who are mostly in favour of Casement and against a new Clones or more central Tyrone stadium and say that given its location in the East of the province and the poor road network in Ulster its not a good location. However, surely poor and all that the road network is in Ulster that it is still better infrastructure from most of Ulster to Belfast than from most of Ulster to places like Tyrone. This issue has been debated and will be ad infinitum as its never going to please everybody regardless of where it was. Heck, if I had my way the new Casement would be located up in the Glens somewhere as a journey to Casement for me is over an hour so believe it or not the majority of Ulster (or the North anyway) would be in Casement before me on a matchday if we left at the same time. The beauty of having it in Belfast is that, accept it or not, traffic can get away from the grounds a lot quicker than Clones or any other venue previously suggested here on Hoganstand due to the very fact that you are right beside the Motorway.

Now, on your stats, where the hell did you get the statistics that Clones or Omagh are only 30-45 mins away from 95% of GAA fans in Ulster? Given the population of the County of Antrim alone it would make up a sizeable proportion of these Ulster GAA fans you talk about and I would be very surprised if any of these fans from Antrim could make either destination you mention within 45 minutes.

You have reminded me of the old saying that 78.567% of statistics are made up on the spot. Sure I carried out an independent survey over the last 5 years and in it 83% of Ulster Gaa fans were actually in favour of Casement and were looking forward to the cultural experience of it all.








To people outside of Ulster, Casement Park sounds a great Location as it is located in Belfast City, Ulster's largest City. But when you consider It's Location to the extreme east of Ulster, and the terrible road network in Ulster, It is not a great choice.
Anybody peddling rubbish about Belfast facilities are living in a dream world. That would make sense if All Ireland quarter finals or games that were drawing huge crowds from Southern counties were to be hosted there on a regular basis, as it would then be catering for large crowds possibly staying overnight.

If you can have a Provincial Stadium that is 30-45 mins from 95% of Ulster's GAA fans, would that really not be better than a Stadium that will mean a 2 hours drive from over 50% of GAA fans?
Come on now, get over your own prochial priorities and think of the bigger picture.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 06/06/2013 13:12:03    1400195

GaryMac82

Forgive my ignorance on the issue but I would've thought that Belfast would suit better for most Derry supporters time wise than Clones? I don't know the route from Derry to Clones though I drive from Belfast to Derry a couple of times a year.

Although I understand you're making the case for all of Ulster.

On a side note. I'd be more inclined to go to Ulster Championship match in Belfast rather than Clones myself. I know I'm not exactly who this catered to though!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13797 - 06/06/2013 13:50:47    1400254

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 5894

1400254 GaryMac82

Forgive my ignorance on the issue but I would've thought that Belfast would suit better for most Derry supporters time wise than Clones? I don't know the route from Derry to Clones though I drive from Belfast to Derry a couple of times a year.

Although I understand you're making the case for all of Ulster.

On a side note. I'd be more inclined to go to Ulster Championship match in Belfast rather than Clones myself. I know I'm not exactly who this catered to though!

No your perfectly entitled to give an opinion, and your experience gives an added dimension to the topic too.

I live in the Cityside of Derry ( Donegal/West side of the foyle ). It is currently as fast for me to travel to Clones, as it is Casement Park. When the A5 ( Derry to Dublin ) dual carriageway goes ahead ( Which it will, despite Unionist farmers pulling out all the stops ), this will open up the western half of Ulster and change travel times dramatically.

With the Belfast A1 motorway already reaching into Tyrone, and the A5 from Derry to Monaghan meeting it at Ballygawley. This opens the possibility of a new Stadium be placed in a suitable location along a major motorway or dual carriageway.
Omagh/Dungannon are or will be alongside major routes, and would be my preferred locations.

This would also allow Southern gaels from Connaught, Munster and Leinster easy access too, and they would be very welcome.

Note: The A5 project which is currently on hold, pending an full and proper environmental study ( Really just complaints from farmers along the route, who felt they weren't getting enough compensation for their land).
Antrim gaels will argue this won't go ahead, but most people in Western Ulster are optimistic and believe it will.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 06/06/2013 16:11:42    1400418

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 802

1400195 GaryMc - you ask the question why is it only Antrim and Down posters who are mostly in favour of Casement and against a new Clones or more central Tyrone stadium



Now I ask if anybody outside of Antrim or Down in Ulster would prefer a new Casement Park or a Stadium in a more central location like Tyrone to be built as Ulster's main stadium?
Clearly Antrim folk have a vested Interest in Casement park going ahead. So maybe we should ask everybody else in Ulster, as It will affect everybody.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 06/06/2013 16:18:02    1400431

I am not going to argue that the A5 won't go ahead but it won't be today or tomorrow and has been shelved at the moment and the funds redirected to 'more pressing' projects. I did a wee search there out of curiosity Gary to see what the travel time from Strand Rd (just to pick a point on the West side of Derry) to Clones and then from same destination to Casement and the difference is Casement is 22 minutes closer. Maybe you just drive quicker to Clones than Belfast as you like it better? ;-)

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 06/06/2013 16:29:54    1400452

GaryMc82

Fair enough bud. I thought that Belfast might suit better for supporters from the City too.

Incidently, and this is totally off topic, but what way would you go from Derry (city) to Dublin? Do you go via Monaghan or Belfast? I know Belfast is outta the way but the M1 can really make up for it. Like I said I go a couple of times a year to Derry and of late I've been going through Belfast as I think it is working out quicker although I keep forgetting to time it properly!!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13797 - 06/06/2013 16:32:35    1400456

So we'll have a brand new 40,000 all seater state of the art stadium, with all the facilities people need, and we have people giving out about moving the Ulster GAA headquarters there, because of some notions about "tradition, atmosphere and walking up a steep hill" to a ground which will pale in comparison to Casement. Do these people think there'll be complete silence in the new Casement?

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 07/06/2013 10:49:26    1400935

Its just GAA snobbery Sergeant Slash - imagine the cheek of a mediocre county like Antrim getting a new stadium and to host the Ulster finals when they probably will very rarely be there on Football Final day. Whereas the New Kids on the Block counties feel they are more deserving. It may be veiled under such reasons as the occassion of the day or the craic and atmosphere but noone is that easily fooled..... (tongue in cheek wee winkey smiley emoticon before youse all lose it completely)

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 07/06/2013 11:45:42    1401005

Sergeant_Slash
County: Cavan
Posts: 1875

1400935
So we'll have a brand new 40,000 all seater state of the art stadium, with all the facilities people need, and we have people giving out about moving the Ulster GAA headquarters there, because of some notions about "tradition, atmosphere and walking up a steep hill" to a ground which will pale in comparison to Casement. Do these people think there'll be complete silence in the new Casement?

It's all seater so yes. I think there will be a drastic effect on atmosphere.

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 807

1401005
Its just GAA snobbery Sergeant Slash - imagine the cheek of a mediocre county like Antrim getting a new stadium and to host the Ulster finals when they probably will very rarely be there on Football Final day. Whereas the New Kids on the Block counties feel they are more deserving. It may be veiled under such reasons as the occassion of the day or the craic and atmosphere but noone is that easily fooled..... (tongue in cheek wee winkey smiley emoticon before youse all lose it completely)

Nothing got to do with Antrim at all. Stop being hyper sensitive.

I'm from Donegal and would prefer it to be in Clones. Hardly advocating that because Monaghan are a superpower. The town and the surrounding areas are much more accommodating and favorable to gaels than a section of Belfast. The only reason Casement is getting the go ahead is because the Uster GAA want a flagship stadium in a city so they can rake in some extra coin. Nothing to do with anything else.

Can't see a music act playing Clones or a Rugby world cup game being held there.

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1075 - 07/06/2013 12:25:34    1401070

samsforthehills - unfortunately they don't offer flashy lights to put around comments but maybe you missed the bit where I mentioned the joking bit. Nothing to do with being sensitive.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 07/06/2013 13:28:03    1401134

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 808

1401134
samsforthehills - unfortunately they don't offer flashy lights to put around comments but maybe you missed the bit where I mentioned the joking bit. Nothing to do with being sensitive.

My apologies. I thought the bit at the end was referring to something else. The tone of a comment is hard to gauge at times via this particular medium.

Up Clones!

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1075 - 07/06/2013 14:07:43    1401183

I agree that the GAA had to build this in Belfast. When the NI treasury turns around and offers you 56M towards a 70M stadium it's too good to refuse. And I imagine the money could only be invested in Belfast and when you look at the possible concerts and so on Belfast is a good place to build a modern stadium.
However, if its struggles to sell out, and the all-seater drains some atmosphere (which it always does), and the majority of Ulster gaels want the Ulster final in Clones after 2/3 years then what is stopping the Ulster council from moving the final back to Clones? I cant imagine the is any agreement for future games to be played there.

white.n.blue (Monaghan) - Posts: 249 - 07/06/2013 15:14:30    1401272

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 5957

1400456
GaryMc82

Fair enough bud. I thought that Belfast might suit better for supporters from the City too.

Incidently, and this is totally off topic, but what way would you go from Derry (city) to Dublin? Do you go via Monaghan or Belfast? I know Belfast is outta the way but the M1 can really make up for it. Like I said I go a couple of times a year to Derry and of late I've been going through Belfast as I think it is working out quicker although I keep forgetting to time it properly!!


I travel via Dublin to Kildare and Carlow/Kilkenny every 2nd week, My preferred route from Derry is Strabane, Omagh, Monaghan, Slane, Dublin is the normally the fastest route.
Although roadworks between Monaghan and Emyvale is currently slowing that journey, overall it is faster, despite what AA roadwatch lists may state.

Switching over at Ardee to the M1 is the same time. Its faster driving, but the extra distance kinda balances it out.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 13/06/2013 22:00:39    1406203