01/06/2013 20:49:21
kerryluck
County: Kerry
Posts: 1259
show highlights of lower hurling leagues, christy ring and the other lower hurling competitions and show some of them live on tnag, more coverage in news papers, compare the top counties of hurling and football to 20 years ago and you will see that a lot more people know the names of all the players, why?

thats not going to work, clubs wont go for it, all them counties will have to fix fitures together, different number of clubs, different size of counties
highlights for who to watch? when GAA fans from tyrone, monaghan, mayo don't go to their own countys hurling games in big numbers why show them on tv? who would watch the games
more coverage in newspapers. space is limited in newspapers so why have more coverage of games that don't have enough interest for fans of the competing counties?
why wouldn't it work. A bit of work from the counties in question as well as the clubs within those counties and with the help of the provincial councils and from HQ up in Croker and there is no reason why it wouldn't work

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 01/06/2013 21:03:53    1396690

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 4706

1396690
01/06/2013 20:49:21
kerryluck
County: Kerry
Posts: 1259
show highlights of lower hurling leagues, christy ring and the other lower hurling competitions and show some of them live on tnag, more coverage in news papers, compare the top counties of hurling and football to 20 years ago and you will see that a lot more people know the names of all the players, why?

thats not going to work, clubs wont go for it, all them counties will have to fix fitures together, different number of clubs, different size of counties
highlights for who to watch? when GAA fans from tyrone, monaghan, mayo don't go to their own countys hurling games in big numbers why show them on tv? who would watch the games
more coverage in newspapers. space is limited in newspapers so why have more coverage of games that don't have enough interest for fans of the competing counties?
why wouldn't it work. A bit of work from the counties in question as well as the clubs within those counties and with the help of the provincial councils and from HQ up in Croker and there is no reason why it wouldn't work

it will work , alot more people would watch them games and highlights

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 01/06/2013 21:12:05    1396694

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
promote the game in the US to what end?
NHL final even poorly attended here would be much bigger than any attendance in America and all related costs with getting teams over etc would make issue loss making as would loss of tv money as less money would be paid by tv stations here for games that would throw in at nighttime
Promote the game to who?
Irish know about it and not enough americans will ever play the game to make it any interest to America as a whole

Promote the game to the end of getting more Americans interested in the sport, and keeping the ones who've already started, did you check out the video links? Its actual Americans training actual American kids to play hurling, I couldn't believe it when I saw it, amazing stuff. Giving these kids a chance to attend a top flight game, and see it played properly in the flesh would be pricelsess.
I wouldn't expect the game to get a bigger crowd in America, getting bigger crowds isn't the point. The point is to capitalize on the current surge in popularity in hurling amongst Americans, and give them some real exposure to top flight hurling. Cost wise, maybe it could be done instead of the All Star hurling tour every second year. I'd imagine alot of wealthier Irish Americans would be interested in sponsoring it as well. I'm not looking for it to take over America as a whole, but from tiny acorns and all that, you never know. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. And lets not forget about the Irish in the US, GAA is still important to us as well.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 01/06/2013 21:18:59    1396700

01/06/2013 21:12:05
kerryluck
County: Kerry
Posts: 1260
it will work , alot more people would watch them games and highlights
Who are these "a lot more people" when majority of GAA supporters from competing countys don't even go to their own countys games?
how can you say it will work. really doubt you would get any decent level of viewers at all

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 01/06/2013 21:19:47    1396702

I would like to see the stronger teams in the country becoming seeded to prevent the rubbish we all had to endure today. Dublin and Westmeath was one of the worst games ive seen as a neutral all year. Then I switch over to hear that Kerry slaughtered Waterford by a bag full of scores. We really need the top teams seeded in an all Ireland group format. Provincial championships must go and a new all Ireland format devised similar to soccer European qualifying groups etc. Each group would get one top seeded team like Dublin, Kerry, Cork, Tyrone, Donegal, Mayo. The top two in the group would then progress and at least the weaker counties could have a greater number of games and a chance to develop themselves. At the minute its just dire, we all are better off just tuning in to the championship at quarter final stage....

cacsmckilly (Tyrone) - Posts: 1294 - 01/06/2013 21:25:06    1396707

kerryluck
County: Kerry
4. Divisional sides competing in Liam McCarthy made up of weaker countys
Community Identity
Community is at the heart of our Association. Everything we do helps to enrich the communities we serve
We foster a clear sense of identity and place
do that and you loose the above"community identity", which is part of what the gaa is all about

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 01/06/2013 21:26:41    1396711

kerryluck
County: Kerry
4. Divisional sides competing in Liam McCarthy made up of weaker countys
Community Identity
Community is at the heart of our Association. Everything we do helps to enrich the communities we serve
We foster a clear sense of identity and place
do that and you loose the above"community identity", which is part of what the gaa is all about

oops, pressed add message too early. I see where you're coming from, if it was just a Christy Ring 15, it might be hard for people to get behind it. But if, as was suggested in various previous threads, you had provincial sides made up of the best Ulster players in the Ring/Rackard/Meaghar playing for an Ulster side, or the best Connaught players for a Connaught side etc, introduced in the AI qualifiers, you could at least have people playing for their provinces, which would still be a logical team (not sure how it would work with Kerry though), it would be like playing the railway cup within the AI series.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 01/06/2013 21:27:47    1396715

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 4708

1396702
01/06/2013 21:12:05
kerryluck
County: Kerry
Posts: 1260
it will work , alot more people would watch them games and highlights
Who are these "a lot more people" when majority of GAA supporters from competing countys don't even go to their own countys games?
how can you say it will work. really doubt you would get any decent level of viewers at all

they would be more likely to watch it then go watch a divisional team

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 01/06/2013 21:39:45    1396735

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 4709

How could you arrange for no games to be played before start of March and after end of October apart from all Ireland club games and school/colleges games?? The fixtures scheduling would never allow that. Look at the amount of games. Clubs would never agree as theyd miss loads of games as inter county coaches would stop inter county players playing club games close to intercounty games.
Fixtures scheduling would allow it.Intercounty players only play in club championship matches these days and very rarely in league matches.If teh intercounty season was arranged properly county team would play a match every second week starting in April and in the week inbetween club matches would be played.Intercounty coaches would have no say in fixture scheduling (see point 5) if they don't like that then they can feck off.

Inter county sides train in November as they've the league to train for as well. Everything is not just about the

The players are training to peak in the championsho I don't think it encourages players to play intercounty football/hurling when they know they have to go through such an arduos training regime.Intercounty players don't have much aof a life these days and lots of talented players arent able to give such huge commitment.

How would you promote GAA better?

I'd promote the GAA better by getting the players to engage with the media more and also by changing the competition structure and amalgamating the league and championship and playing more games in the summer months rather than the majority of intercounty matches being played in the winter in bad weather and when it clashes with other sports.

Who are all the negative people in media dissing the GAA and how can you try censor them???

GAA journalists almost always focus on the negative rather than the positive.I never suggested censoring them its just a thing I would like to see change.It would be very easy to improve RTE's coverage of Gaelic Games by simply threathening to take away the championship broadcasting rights from them

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 02/06/2013 10:55:19    1396808

02/06/2013 10:55:19
uibhfhaili1986
Fixtures scheduling would allow it.Intercounty players only play in club championship matches these days and very rarely in league matches.If teh intercounty season was arranged properly county team would play a match every second week starting in April and in the week inbetween club matches would be played.Intercounty coaches would have no say in fixture scheduling (see point 5) if they don't like that then they can feck off.
The players are training to peak in the championsho I don't think it encourages players to play intercounty football/hurling when they know they have to go through such an arduos training regime.Intercounty players don't have much aof a life these days and lots of talented players arent able to give such huge commitment.
I'd promote the GAA better by getting the players to engage with the media more and also by changing the competition structure and amalgamating the league and championship and playing more games in the summer months rather than the majority of intercounty matches being played in the winter in bad weather and when it clashes with other sports.
GAA journalists almost always focus on the negative rather than the positive.I never suggested censoring them its just a thing I would like to see change.It would be very easy to improve RTE's coverage of Gaelic Games by simply threathening to take away the championship broadcasting rights from them
How would fixtures scheduling allow it? Have you not seen the current fixtures scheduling? How would you change things from what currently exists?
How would you organise intercounty fixtures and then club fixtures every second week? Way too messy
How would you get amateur players who train and play around work/college to engage with media more. what would you do to allow this. I was told by Malachy Clerkin no less that the main way journalists can talk to top players is at competition/product launches as they cant access the players anywhere else that much.
How are the majority of intercounty games played in winter?? None are. All games are in spring, summer with some in autumn
No. GAA journalists do not always focus on the negative. Who are the journalists who focus too much on the negative?
By threatening to take away GAA coverage from RTE who would take up the slack to ensure same amount of games would be covered?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/06/2013 20:06:01    1397267

１． 65's to be changed to a 45m cut.
２． Or 65's to be taken from the sidline (they're too easy)
３． The amalgamation of weak county hurling leagues - eg. Cabhan - Muineachan.
４． Stop clock in football.
５． Students may not play for their county in the McKenna cup.
６． More hurling played before football in Uladh.
７． Winners of preliminary round have home advantage in first round.
８． Handball ar an teilifis
９． CLG as an athletic association as originally envisaged.
１０． Ladies football and camogie to become part of the CLG.
１１． Visas for strong, fast foreigners willing to play hurling in Ulster.

AnRaibh (Donegal) - Posts: 134 - 03/06/2013 08:49:46    1397400

The all Ireland football championship has been around for well over a hundred years. Generally, any problems that you have with the game as it is today are very temporary, relatively speaking. The game today is different from 10 or 20 or 40 years ago. Football will continue to evolve organically. If you think that there's too much handpassing or that Uibh Fhaili don't win enough, that's a pity, but please just be patient and see whether it'll sort itself out. When you want to make changes to something as old and prestigious as the championship, you must be very, very conservative if you want to preserve its history and tradition.

The championship structure is grand. This year Laois - Lu, Longfort - Cill Mhantain, Sligeach - London, Cabhan - Ard Mhacha all exciting stuff
5 different AI winners the last five years. Great variety in the finalists too
Last decade 2 teams won the all Ireland for the first time, similarly in the 90s
No Uladh team even won Sam until 1933.
Cill Dara appeared in their first final for 63 years in 98.
Dun na nGall met Ciarrai for the first time last year.
Ciarrai have dominated the sport in the past, winning 4-in-a-rows, 5 in a decade, but happily, the sport wasn't changed because of this.
There are plenty of counties with huge populations that could awaken and win future championships. Dun na nGall came from nowhere to an all Ireland in 2 years

People reckon Connacht champions have an easier route to the all Ireland, but in the past 50 years only Gailleamh have exploited this, only 5 times
Since 2003 the connacht championship has only once been successfully defended.
Fear Manach have the fewest clubs in Ireland and never won Uladh, but got to an AI quarter final in 2003 and replayed a semi in 2004. They replayed the 2006 Uladh final, and someday they will win it, and it'll seem well worth the wait.
Mumhan may seem bad at the moment but in Ciarrai have done 8 in a row before. Twice.
An Lu came so close in 2010
Ath Cliath might seem dominant too, but it's nothing new. They too have won 8 in a row, and the odd time when iarmhi or laois or cill dara do win is absolutely worth the wait.

AnRaibh (Donegal) - Posts: 134 - 03/06/2013 08:52:02    1397403

Marlon_JD
County: Tipperary

oops, pressed add message too early. I see where you're coming from, if it was just a Christy Ring 15, it might be hard for people to get behind it. But if, as was suggested in various previous threads, you had provincial sides made up of the best Ulster players in the Ring/Rackard/Meaghar playing for an Ulster side, or the best Connaught players for a Connaught side etc, introduced in the AI qualifiers, you could at least have people playing for their provinces, which would still be a logical team (not sure how it would work with Kerry though), it would be like playing the railway cup within the AI series.

For what you're proposing it would make sense to have 3 divisional county teams: Leinster, Ulster and Connuaght-Munster. It's not a bad idea but I'm not sure I'm all for it. I'd be more in favour of a B championship where 4 provincial qualifier counties would take on 4 Ring semi-finalist counties in June-July.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8833 - 03/06/2013 09:28:48    1397412

cacsmckilly
County: Tyrone

I would like to see the stronger teams in the country becoming seeded to prevent the rubbish we all had to endure today. Dublin and Westmeath was one of the worst games ive seen as a neutral all year. Then I switch over to hear that Kerry slaughtered Waterford by a bag full of scores. We really need the top teams seeded in an all Ireland group format. Provincial championships must go and a new all Ireland format devised similar to soccer European qualifying groups etc. Each group would get one top seeded team like Dublin, Kerry, Cork, Tyrone, Donegal, Mayo. The top two in the group would then progress and at least the weaker counties could have a greater number of games and a chance to develop themselves. At the minute its just dire, we all are better off just tuning in to the championship at quarter final stage....


A solution you're looking for could be in the Leinster hurling championship next year, 5 counties Antrim, Laois, Carlow, Westmeath and London will enter a provincial qualifier group. Only the top 2 from the group will advance to join Kilkenny, Dublin, Galway, Offaly and Wexford in the Leinster championship proper.

A similar system could be adopted in football championships.

Munster - Tipperary, Limerick, Clare and Waterford in a 4 team qualifying group, top 2 advance to Munster semi-finals to take on Kerry and Cork.
Connaught - same idea, 4 counties enter a qualifying group with top 2 advancing to take on 2 seeded teams in provincial semi-finals.
Ulster - similar idea again, 4 counties enter qualifying group with top 2 joining the rest in the Ulster quarter-finals.
Leinster - same idea once more, 4 counties enter qualifying group. In Leinster's case the top 2 would play-off in Leinster Round 1 to be the 8th quarter-finalist in the province.

With a qualifying group of 4 in each province, the 8 teams outside the top 2 of the groups should enter Qualifier Round 1 with the 4 winners advancing to Qualifier Round 2. These 4 should be joined by 2 Munster losing semi-finalists, 2 Connaught losing semi-finalists, 3 losing Ulster quarter-finalist, 1 Leinster Round 1 loser and 4 losing Leinster quarter-finalists in the Qualifier Round 2.
The 8 winners of Round 2 should play in Round 3 with winners advancing to Round 4 where they'd be met by 2 Ulster losing semi-finalists and 2 Leinster losing semi-finalists. Round 5 then would see 4 provincial finalists taking on 4 Round 4 winners.

What would be a fair way to determine 4 provincial qualifiers in each province?


Any teams from the bottom 2 in division 3 and the 8 from division 4 that wouldn't get passed Qualifier Round 2 could enter the Tommy Murphy Cup be it any number of counties from 2 to 10.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8833 - 03/06/2013 10:03:47    1397424

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 4720

How would fixtures scheduling allow it? Have you not seen the current fixtures scheduling? How would you change things from what currently exists?
How would you organise intercounty fixtures and then club fixtures every second week? Way too messy
How would you get amateur players who train and play around work/college to engage with media more. what would you do to allow this. I was told by Malachy Clerkin no less that the main way journalists can talk to top players is at competition/product launches as they cant access the players anywhere else that much.
How are the majority of intercounty games played in winter?? None are. All games are in spring, summer with some in autumn
No. GAA journalists do not always focus on the negative. Who are the journalists who focus too much on the negative?
By threatening to take away GAA coverage from RTE who would take up the slack to ensure same amount of games would be covered?

Championship would be run like teh league and each county would no exactly when their matches would be played.Club matches to be arranged to be played in the weeks inbetween county matches. The club fixtures would be set in stone. As it is now alot of club palyers don't know when matches will be played and then a whole pile of club matches are played in short burst

Intercounty players are so fit they would have no problme playing a club match inbetween playing 2 county matches .The training to matches ratio is ridiculous at the moment.


A proper press copnference should be held every Wednesday before an intercounty match is played with 2 players present to answer questions.

Winter is the period before the clocks go forward.too many matches are played in Jan, February and March in my opinion.GAA is a summer sport.

The main Sunday game football pundits (whio are the most importanant GAA media figures) invariably focus on the neagative and they would turn you off watching a football match before it was played.

TV3 could fill RTE's gap.They may not be able to pay as much money as RTE but that hole could be filled until RTE decided to purchase GAA championship rights after losing out on big ratings winners during the summer time.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 03/06/2013 13:41:16    1397591

The GAA have a gap every summer that they use to promote their games. Anyone thinking they are going to move away from there are wasting their time coming up with championship changes. If people want the league boosted, using it for seedings in the qualifiers or something like that would help

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8833 - 03/06/2013 13:56:10    1397617

I haven't read through all of the posts on here so this may have already been suggested.

It's grossly unfair not to have an open draw in all the provincial championships.

The Leinster championship is not an open draw, counties who reach the provincial semi finals are automatically seeded for the following years championship.

Dublin and Kildare will not face each other in any early rounds of next years Leinster championship after both team won on Saturday.

They both qualified for an automatic quarter final spot this year simply because they reached the semis last year. Teams who reach the semis one year are automatically into the quarter finals for the following year therefore this process keeps all the strong teams away from each other up to the semi final stage of the competition.

This process leaves it very hard for weaker counties to make a break through as they will always be pitted against one of the big teams at the quarter final stage plus it also makes the passage to the semi final stage easier for the big boys which helps to keep them apart from each other again for the following years championship.

The Leinster championship is designed to keep the strong teams at the top and the weaker teams at the bottom.

This process does not happen in any of the other 3 provinces so why does it happen in Leinster ?.

THE_SNAPPER (Louth) - Posts: 2019 - 03/06/2013 14:03:47    1397627

Leinster counties voted for it.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8833 - 03/06/2013 14:18:29    1397636

legendzxix
County: Kerry
Posts: 2481

1397636 Leinster counties voted for it.


I don't know about that, but if they did it doesn't make it right in my eyes.

The path to all provincial finals should be the same.

If Mayo and Galway played in Leinster you'd have to think that both counties would still be in the Leinster championship likewise Tyrone you'd imagine would still be in it too if they played in Leinster. If Donegal can meet Tyrone and Mayo can meet Galway in opening round games in Ulster and Connacht respectively then the same should apply to Leinster.

The strongest teams in Leinster not only have an advantage over the other teams in the province but they also have an advantage over teams in the other provinces also.

One advantage is they most certainly avoid the early rounds of the qualifiers because they get a bye to a Leinster quarter final a juncture were they'll be pitted against one of the weaker teams in the province.

THE_SNAPPER (Louth) - Posts: 2019 - 03/06/2013 16:21:31    1397742

03/06/2013 08:52:02
AnRaibh
County: Donegal
Posts: 109

1397403
The all Ireland football championship has been around for well over a hundred years. Generally, any problems that you have with the game as it is today are very temporary, relatively speaking. The game today is different from 10 or 20 or 40 years ago. Football will continue to evolve organically. If you think that there's too much handpassing or that Uibh Fhaili don't win enough, that's a pity, but please just be patient and see whether it'll sort itself out. When you want to make changes to something as old and prestigious as the championship, you must be very, very conservative if you want to preserve its history and tradition.

The championship structure is grand. This year Laois - Lu, Longfort - Cill Mhantain, Sligeach - London, Cabhan - Ard Mhacha all exciting stuff
5 different AI winners the last five years. Great variety in the finalists too
Last decade 2 teams won the all Ireland for the first time, similarly in the 90s
No Uladh team even won Sam until 1933.
Cill Dara appeared in their first final for 63 years in 98.
Dun na nGall met Ciarrai for the first time last year.
Ciarrai have dominated the sport in the past, winning 4-in-a-rows, 5 in a decade, but happily, the sport wasn't changed because of this.
There are plenty of counties with huge populations that could awaken and win future championships. Dun na nGall came from nowhere to an all Ireland in 2 years

People reckon Connacht champions have an easier route to the all Ireland, but in the past 50 years only Gailleamh have exploited this, only 5 times
Since 2003 the connacht championship has only once been successfully defended.
Fear Manach have the fewest clubs in Ireland and never won Uladh, but got to an AI quarter final in 2003 and replayed a semi in 2004. They replayed the 2006 Uladh final, and someday they will win it, and it'll seem well worth the wait.
Mumhan may seem bad at the moment but in Ciarrai have done 8 in a row before. Twice.
An Lu came so close in 2010
Ath Cliath might seem dominant too, but it's nothing new. They too have won 8 in a row, and the odd time when iarmhi or laois or cill dara do win is absolutely worth the wait.



Very good post.

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 4053 - 03/06/2013 16:39:51    1397759