We have played too many away games in Croke Park!

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 26/05/2013 15:50:15    1391469

Hill they wont answer mate.. Pure ignorance.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13654 - 26/05/2013 15:52:04    1391471

This crap about the Dubs and Croke Park just shows that most teams supporters dont have confidence in their
teams. They should look upon it as an honour to play there. Kerry teams always seem to raise their game against
the Dubs in Croker but not so against the Ulster teams. I remember this being a topic years ago when the Dubs
drew with Cork in the AI s/f but went to Cork and bate them out the gate. I think all players in all
counties love to play in Croker and its just the supporters that suck the MORALE out of their players by
harping on about this over and over and over over over...............

keelman (Mayo) - Posts: 113 - 26/05/2013 18:39:20    1391725

seany16
County: Dublin
Posts: 978

1390502 My simple question is, when should Croke Park be used if Dublin were to be (partly) taken out of it? Would someones argument be that it should be only used for Leinster and All Ireland semi/finals? So, one should invest 10's of millions to build a state of the art circa 80,000 capacity stadium to use it for 3 championship matches a year? I really don't think that people are thinking objectively about this if not their only wish is to see Croke Park face bankruptcy.

As the GAA's national and premier venue Croke Park is open to any team that can put a decent crowd in it. Ulster Finals were held there when the demand far exceeded what Clones could cater for. But then again if a Connaught or Munster final could attract over 50,000 fans their provincial bodies would probably not want them moved to Dublin anyway.

I think the economics of the issue is a no brainer but i'll address the issue of fairness. If there is any advantage, and i stress if, to having your supporters travel less distances than others, Dublin, by coincidence that Croke Park is located in the capital has an advantage. If there is an advantage of having your team travelling less distances and playing regularly in Croke Park we probably also have an advantage. How much of an advantage i'm not sure, would it make a discernable difference i'm not sure, but there may be an advantage in familiarity. The issue regarding supporting numbers i feel is less straight forward. If Dublin drew Kildare, Meath, Louth, Westmeath, Wicklow or Carlow in the championship (not qualifier) the games would have to be moved to bigger venues anyway. If we drew Offaly or Laois they could be played in PortLaoise or Tullamore but its unlikely such a scenario would make any difference.

The last game that Dublin played out of Croke Park in the Leinster Championship was against Longford in Pearse Park and Dublin fans in my opinion outnumbered Longford fans. At a conservative estimate we at least equaled them so i fail to see how playing Dublin outside of Croker would address supporting fairness if Dublin fans are going to take a relatively large proportion of the tickets in these smaller venues. Kerry in Thurles was exactly the same.

Croke Park is of a matter of fact a neutral stadium. It is coincidental that it is located in Dublin but should the GAA of built it in the midlands, Galway, Cork or Belfast the stadium would remain neutral. People questioning the neutrality of Croker are deluded in my view.

Throughout the years, the stats don't suggest Dublin have an advantage. Dublin have been beaten by Meath many times in Croker. Dublin have hammered other Leinster teams in Croker. Dublin have beaten relatively weak teams in Croker in the AI series but have more often than not lost to the best teams. Dublin couldn't buy a win over Kerry in Croker until 2011, or nearly everywhere else for that arguments sake. Only recently, has Dublin's record improved over the last 20 years and we are beating teams again.

This suggests that having the best side and tactics wins matches, not the location of a stadium!

Missed this the first time around
_________

Top notch post.

Keep it up Seany16...

We need the likes of yourself around here!

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 27/05/2013 11:04:46    1392244

When Dublin play most teams in Leinster they beat them with a better team
When Dublin come up against the better sides in August Dublin are at a slight DISADVANTAGE
This us due to being too familiar with Croke park which can have a detrimental effect whereas their opponents are fresh and are more inclined to be on a higher adrenalin level and invariably play out of their skin against the dubs.

Most of the complaining about Dublins so called advantage comes from teams that wouldn't have a snow balls chance of beating Dublin on any pitch.

Since 83 Dublin have been beaten once outside corker in a game against the most successful county in Ireland, they drew one and won the rest.

bernardmessi (Dublin) - Posts: 182 - 28/05/2013 13:15:35    1393482

Who cares.

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1075 - 28/05/2013 13:36:02    1393504

seany16
My simple question is, when should Croke Park be used if Dublin were to be (partly) taken out of it? Would someones argument be that it should be only used for Leinster and All Ireland semi/finals? So, one should invest 10's of millions to build a state of the art circa 80,000 capacity stadium to use it for 3 championship matches a year? I really don't think that people are thinking objectively about this if not their only wish is to see Croke Park face bankruptcy.

And my simple solution is ticket sale management. So we can discount the rest of your long-winded spiel, because that 3 words solves it...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 28/05/2013 13:40:40    1393508

seany16
My simple question is, when should Croke Park be used if Dublin were to be (partly) taken out of it? Would someones argument be that it should be only used for Leinster and All Ireland semi/finals? So, one should invest 10's of millions to build a state of the art circa 80,000 capacity stadium to use it for 3 championship matches a year? I really don't think that people are thinking objectively about this if not their only wish is to see Croke Park face bankruptcy.

And my simple solution is ticket sale management. So we can discount the rest of your long-winded spiel, because that 3 words solves it...

------------
Yeah tickets sales have been good for One Direction apparently. Sound like the solution - more boy bands in Croker please.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4746 - 28/05/2013 14:44:21    1393597

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nuI_sLFCH4

makes you wonder what the complaining is about as dublin still outnumbered wexford in the crowd that day.
next they be complaining that its unfair to have that many away supporters that it takes away the home advantage haha

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 31/05/2013 11:45:39    1395737

joxer, what are you raving about?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 31/05/2013 11:54:49    1395761

Don't think it's really that hard to solve. If Dublin are drawn away, they play away. If they are drawn at home, they play at "home".

AI Quarter Finals in Croker is nonsense too. Would be nice to spread the love a bit. Provincial winners should get home advantage. 30,000 people in MacHale Park is better than 30,000 in Croker any day.

MayoMark (Mayo) - Posts: 332 - 31/05/2013 12:49:52    1395825

Ah yes Dublins unfair advantage which has seen them win 3 sams in 30 years 1 more then Galway, Down and Donegal to name a few.Massive advantage is there for all to see

Some serious stupid posts float about this site

Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 31/05/2013 13:08:39    1395842

As already addressed the Leinster Semi-Finals and Final are in Croke Park and will be for the forseeable future.
Similiarly, the All-Ireland Quarter Finals onward are obliged to be in Croker.

The issue should be focused on Leinster Preliminary Round / Quarter-Finals.
Meath or Kildare v Dublin still attracts 40-50,000 on it's own so Croke Park is the only place for those games.
Louth, Wicklow and Westmeath lack the grounds to cater for the demand.
So that leaves Offaly, Laois, Wexford, Carlow and Longford. All of these counties have capacities capable of catering for the demand that an early round tie against Dublin would bring and it's time for the respective county boards to stand up for themselves if they are drawn to play at home insist that they have home advantage.

As for the qualifiers (if Dublin ever do go back to them!) an away draw is an away draw and a Round 1/2/3 tie against Dublin would not test the capacity of the vast majority of county grounds in Munster, Ulster or Connacht.

GloryHunter (Meath) - Posts: 136 - 31/05/2013 13:11:17    1395847

nobody in dublin has a problem with travelling to mullingar to play them other then the fact that it would be very limited ticket supplies i would imagine as it only holds 11 thousand.but if dublin outnumbered westmeath in mullingar would westmeath players like dennis glennon then be saying its unfair that they can do this?
like you have to wonder westmeath played at home against carlow in mullinar and only 3 thousand people turned out so is it just all in their heads that you have an advantage where a game is played.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 31/05/2013 13:26:40    1395865

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7195

1395761
joxer, what are you raving about?

-----
Your simple solution to the problem being tkt sale management. Can you elaborate and bear in mind that demand in Dublin for a business end championship game can be anything from 50000 to 100000?

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4746 - 31/05/2013 14:40:23    1395957

Well joxer, the goal should be to make the crowd more even. So the sales of tickets could be managed in such a way that makes this so. Yes it might make things harder for dublin fans to get a ticket, but then that is a necessary evil in the interest of fairness. Surely that is the most important thing is it not? In reality the dublin fans would still outnumber everyone else, but it would balance things that bit better.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 31/05/2013 14:50:20    1395978

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7200

1395978
Well joxer, the goal should be to make the crowd more even. So the sales of tickets could be managed in such a way that makes this so. Yes it might make things harder for dublin fans to get a ticket, but then that is a necessary evil in the interest of fairness. Surely that is the most important thing is it not? In reality the dublin fans would still outnumber everyone else, but it would balance things that bit better.

Ha!

So now the Dubs aren't even allowed to go and watch the matches unless the culchies can match the Dubs crowd!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13827 - 31/05/2013 15:27:11    1396022

If you take U21s as an example we have been more successful there than any other grade and 3 All Irelands won in 10 years without a game in Croke Park. The best team wins no matter where the venue.

CapitalGains (Dublin) - Posts: 40 - 31/05/2013 15:37:55    1396035

hahahaha i knew the master would be exactly that type.
if dublin played westmeath in mullingar and westmeath had 3 thousand and dublin brought the rest you would be the first to say its unfair still,man your priceless

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 31/05/2013 17:44:06    1396135

Exactly Hill. I thought that was the logic but just wanted it clarified. So TheMaster surely the Dubs are disadvantaged anyway as we don't get a population portion of tkts and we should as this would be fair. Let's take a simple example of an AI semi at Croker and Dublin playing Mayo. Based on population Mayo's population (about 130000) is about 10% of Dublin's (1.27m). Using that logic Dublin should be allocated 72000 tkts and Mayo 8000 tkts. Does that sound fair on Mayo? At McHale Pk Dublin would get 34000 tkts and Mayo 4000. Clearly Mayo get more than this and this is unfair on Dublin. I'm not sure that there is a fairer way of allocating tkts. Clearly with Dublin's huge demand, playing championship matches outside of CP would be distinctly unfair on Dublin unless the above method was used to determine allocation. However this could be perceived as unfair on the smaller county. Obvious solution is to have the game in the biggest stadium to give both sets of fans the best chance of obtaining a tkt. The fact that stadium happens to be in Dublin is not Dublin's fault.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4746 - 31/05/2013 18:40:12    1396176