MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 5789

1390341 Why does the Master think counties currently give up home advantage to play games against Dublin in Croker?

Do you think they're doing it for the craic?
___________

I presumed he meant extra money Mes...

On top of the money from switching the game in the first place...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 24/05/2013 11:27:24    1390349

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 10289

1390337 I agree it's an advantage

I agree that other teams that give up home advantage should get extra revenue - if that's possible?

I agree that other teams that give up home advantage should get extra tickets

I agree that it's unfair on country fans that have to pay a lot more to watch their county team play

I agree with the Dublin players that more away games would be more beneficial

Thats my stance on the subject

I agree with all of the above.

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2847 - 24/05/2013 11:31:53    1390356

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 10289

1390349
MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 5789

1390341 Why does the Master think counties currently give up home advantage to play games against Dublin in Croker?

Do you think they're doing it for the craic?
___________

I presumed he meant extra money Mes...

On top of the money from switching the game in the first place...

So he does actually realise that they're getting extra money in the first place from switching it to Croke Park.

He wants them to get even more extra money on top of that. Think I got it now.

Isn't that just robbing Peter to pay Paul though? That means that there'll just be less money to be divided out among all counties afterwards. So individual counties will benefit the year that they switch their home game to Croker but will lose out the years they don't.

He's a gas ticker. So many suggestions to help Dublin GAA. Fair play Master! Keep thinking about the Dubs and how things could be done better!

We should try and get him involved in the thread on the Dublin page about where to put the new stadium. His geographical and GAA knowledge of Dublin is legendary at this stage!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13827 - 24/05/2013 11:33:57    1390360

dubling always get to warm up at the gorilla enclosure end of croke park.....other counties have just as much right to warm up at this end but no the gaa wont allow it because it might disrupt dublings warm up preparations before big games....the gaa are just lapdogs for dubling at the end of the day.......thurles or limerick shoud be used as a neutral venue for all championship fixtures involving teams from munster and dubling with the all ireland semis and final being the only exceptions to this......even games involving mayo and galway v dubling should be played in semple stadium and not croke park

Gammy_Knee (USA) - Posts: 1482 - 24/05/2013 11:41:27    1390368

:)

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 24/05/2013 11:42:17    1390369

Gammy_Knee
County: USA
Posts: 1313

Haha... awful isnt it.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 24/05/2013 11:43:19    1390371

We should try and get him involved in the thread on the Dublin page about where to put the new stadium. His geographical and GAA knowledge of Dublin is legendary at this stage!

Haha...

Yeah thought you'd like that one! :)

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 24/05/2013 11:44:29    1390372

Yes jimbo the extra money being generated. Isnt that the whole point of moving them there, well then teams should be entitled to a nice bit of the spoils from this, otherwise, what is in it for them? Again mesamis, you jump in without reading the finer details of what is being said.

Jimbo, I said you are defending your own becuase of your response that stated dublin didnt ask for the games in croker. Nobody said they did. Im not trying to place blame on them, Im trying to reason out the fairest system we can for all involved, while still maximising the profits of what we have.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 24/05/2013 11:47:40    1390375

Jimbo, I said you are defending your own becuase of your response that stated dublin didnt ask for the games in croker.
________

And whats wrong with that....

We're slated for something we have no control over...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 24/05/2013 11:53:22    1390377

But it isnt a question of looking after no.1. We should look to find a fair solution for everyone. It is like me saying well as long as mayo get a massive cut of the profits when they are in croker, Im not too bothered about everyone else. It is the wrong attitude to approach the subject with.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 24/05/2013 12:23:03    1390397

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7101

1390397 But it isnt a question of looking after no.1.

I'm not...

Please see my agreement post.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 24/05/2013 12:27:15    1390401

I agree it's an advantage

I agree that other teams that give up home advantage should get extra revenue - if that's possible?

I agree that other teams that give up home advantage should get extra tickets

I agree that it's unfair on country fans that have to pay a lot more to watch their county team play

I agree with the Dublin players that more away games would be more beneficial

Thats my stance on the subject

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 24/05/2013 12:29:17    1390405

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 7102

1390375
Yes jimbo the extra money being generated. Isnt that the whole point of moving them there, well then teams should be entitled to a nice bit of the spoils from this, otherwise, what is in it for them? Again mesamis, you jump in without reading the finer details of what is being said.

It did read what you said. It was the fact that I read it that made me seek the above clarification.

You're orginal wording made it sound as counties that switch their home games against Dublin don't get any reward financially. I'm sure it was an honest mistake on your part but I just wanted to make it clear what exactly the you wanted.

I wouldn't want people to think that you thought that counties switch their home games against Dublin to Croke Park just for the craic.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13827 - 24/05/2013 12:33:51    1390410

themaster

Do you think it's right that Dublin is slated for something that we have no control over?

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 24/05/2013 12:34:36    1390411

Kurt_Angle
County: Dublin
Posts: 21

1389832
To be fair, you won't find too many Dubs disagreeing with this premise. It's certainly not unreasonable for other teams to have home advantage in championship games, should they be drawn out of the hat first. Also, there is a really good sense of occasion when the Dubs do have to travel (Longford '06, Thurles '01, etc.), which I think is reflected in the mood of the travelling support and also leads to a greater volume of support within the away ground (whether this is down to the more dedicated and / or vocal fans being the more likely to travel is up for speculation).

However, as walkinglunchbox rightly stated, it's about the cash draw that Dublin and Croke park brings and if Dublin were to be drawn against, for example, Wicklow, Louth or Kildare etc. with the limited capacity of their home venues, then the GAA would see this as a serious opportunity for revenue lost. A few years ago, the GAA made an annual profit of €21m - €20.5m of which was generated by activities in Croke park. If you take out the All-Ireland finals, maybe semi-finals and any big concerts that may have been on, then it seems obvious that a large percentage of the GAA's revenue is generated by "home" games for Dublin.

The other "solution" would be to increase the capacity of venues outside Dublin but this is i) cost prohibitive in the current (or any) economic climate and ii) would create a series of white elephants whereby these grounds are only generally filled on the odd occasion that the Dubs come to town and the atmosphere within these grounds would invariably suffer, as a result. How often do you see games held in, for example, the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick where there only seems to be a fraction of the capacity present and you can hear individual shouts for the ball / sliotar?

Unfortunately, it's a no-brainer at the minute. Personally, I try and follow the hurlers too for the "away buzz" and will be in Wexford on the 8th. Looking forward to that as much as the 1st.


Great post , couldnt agree more , fair play for following hurlers ,

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 24/05/2013 12:36:32    1390415

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 10296

1390326
moomoo
County: Kerry
Posts: 2936

1390310 Kurt_Angle
County: Dublin
Posts: 21

1390296
moomoo
County: Kerry
Posts: 2933

The Dublin hurlers had to play Clare away last year and there was a thread started by Dubs on here complaining about the fact they had to travel

The issue most posters had in relation to this was not the travelling to Clare but the throw in time of 7pm meaning most Dublin fans would be doing well to return to the capital by midnight, which was considered an avoidable inconvenience and precluded bringing kids to the game but why let a reasoned argument get in the way of an agenda?

People from Kerry, Donegal etc have to travel a lot more then Dublin fans ever have to do and they bring kids with them but they dont seem to be too bothered by it do they? Plenty of other counties make long trips to Dublin for games on a Sunday and get home later then midnight and go to work on the Monday. So why was it a problem for Dublin fans to do it on a Saturday?
_____

Moomoo.. you are now moving away from your original point.

The above post has nothing to do with your original point.

There wwas a scheduling issue with a throw in time...

I've seen many a country fAn giving out about awkward throw in times... and rightly bloody so in may caees

Nothing new.. why would you take exception for a Dub doing the same?

In no way does that relate to your original point of Dubs giving out about playing games away from Croke Park

Please back that up... I dont see why admin wont post it

Seeing that they posted your last post...

Like i already said iv tried 3/4 times but admin still havent posted it so what can i do? Yes that has nothing to do with the point i was making with you its a different point and admin posted my reply to that

moomoo (Kerry) - Posts: 4023 - 24/05/2013 12:37:58    1390416

Any self-respecting team should raise their game in Croke Park and probably raise it again if their playing The Dubs. I's not always an advantage for them to play in Croke Park. Didn't do them much good between '95 and 2011, sometimes the weight of Croke Park expectation got to them.

Sure when they did win in 2011 with a great 70 min display it was "Sure they won the softest All Ireland" and tut-tutting that a goalkeeper scored the winning point. Didn't they just beat the most decorated county in the land and then have to listen to, from some corners, good old-fashioned anti Jackeen begrudgery. Was a masterstroke by Dublin County Board or whoever organised it to have their home league games in Croker. If it's an advantage to Dublin then it's only because other counties want to use that as an excuse if they'rew beaten there rather than raising their game in such a great arena.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8112 - 24/05/2013 12:39:19    1390419

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 6087

1390166
Given that Dublin went 16 years from 1995 - 2011 between winning SAM and when they played all their matches in Croker throughout this period is there really an advantage? It seems like a convenient excuse fro some because over that same period Dublin choked at times in front of their own crowd and took some bad beatings when under pressure. It is probably a big advantage when they are winning but equally as big a disadvantage when they are struggling. Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo, Cork players and fans will testify that there is probably nothing better in Gaelic football than beating the Dubs in front of the Hill. Furthermore let's not kid ourselves; they bring in much needed finance for the GAA.

Well said Ulsterman!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8790 - 24/05/2013 12:57:14    1390439

My simple question is, when should Croke Park be used if Dublin were to be (partly) taken out of it? Would someones argument be that it should be only used for Leinster and All Ireland semi/finals? So, one should invest 10's of millions to build a state of the art circa 80,000 capacity stadium to use it for 3 championship matches a year? I really don't think that people are thinking objectively about this if not their only wish is to see Croke Park face bankruptcy.

As the GAA's national and premier venue Croke Park is open to any team that can put a decent crowd in it. Ulster Finals were held there when the demand far exceeded what Clones could cater for. But then again if a Connaught or Munster final could attract over 50,000 fans their provincial bodies would probably not want them moved to Dublin anyway.

I think the economics of the issue is a no brainer but i'll address the issue of fairness. If there is any advantage, and i stress if, to having your supporters travel less distances than others, Dublin, by coincidence that Croke Park is located in the capital has an advantage. If there is an advantage of having your team travelling less distances and playing regularly in Croke Park we probably also have an advantage. How much of an advantage i'm not sure, would it make a discernable difference i'm not sure, but there may be an advantage in familiarity. The issue regarding supporting numbers i feel is less straight forward. If Dublin drew Kildare, Meath, Louth, Westmeath, Wicklow or Carlow in the championship (not qualifier) the games would have to be moved to bigger venues anyway. If we drew Offaly or Laois they could be played in PortLaoise or Tullamore but its unlikely such a scenario would make any difference.

The last game that Dublin played out of Croke Park in the Leinster Championship was against Longford in Pearse Park and Dublin fans in my opinion outnumbered Longford fans. At a conservative estimate we at least equaled them so i fail to see how playing Dublin outside of Croker would address supporting fairness if Dublin fans are going to take a relatively large proportion of the tickets in these smaller venues. Kerry in Thurles was exactly the same.

Croke Park is of a matter of fact a neutral stadium. It is coincidental that it is located in Dublin but should the GAA of built it in the midlands, Galway, Cork or Belfast the stadium would remain neutral. People questioning the neutrality of Croker are deluded in my view.

Throughout the years, the stats don't suggest Dublin have an advantage. Dublin have been beaten by Meath many times in Croker. Dublin have hammered other Leinster teams in Croker. Dublin have beaten relatively weak teams in Croker in the AI series but have more often than not lost to the best teams. Dublin couldn't buy a win over Kerry in Croker until 2011, or nearly everywhere else for that arguments sake. Only recently, has Dublin's record improved over the last 20 years and we are beating teams again.

This suggests that having the best side and tactics wins matches, not the location of a stadium!

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1663 - 24/05/2013 13:47:17    1390502

As I said MesAmis, you didnt read it correctly. My initial post stated that a large chunk of the excess money generated by the move should go to the team who are put out by it. I repeat, the excess money generated by the move
You really do only seem to see what you want to see.

Jimbo, who is slating dublin though? Where are they being slated for this?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 24/05/2013 13:50:29    1390515