Have we not heard all of this before? When Tyrone won Sam in 03 we were given this idea that they were indestructible and that there was nowhere to go with the swarm defence to stop you. We were given this impression that there was no point in catching the ball from kickouts as the swarm was waiting for you when you came back down to earth. Today, we have Brolly and McHugh telling us that Doengal's system will not bend or break for any team and that they'll simply wear you down.
But you only have to look at previous seasons that not everything always goes to plan for these systems. Football is not a mechanical game, there are still a number of variables, it amazes me that GAA people still talk about these things as definites. In previous seasons who would have predicted Mayo to beat Cork or MEath to knock 5 goals past Dublin. You can go on about systems but it only takes a mistake from a defender or a goalkeeper or referee or the wind etc to change a game. By playing these systems to the letter you're improving the probability of nullifying the opposition and improving your own chances of winning. This doesn't mean that the ball will always go over the bar when players are in scoring positions or that a kickout will reach its intended target or that the referee won't be fussy with the whistle on a given day.
Systems are there to be broken, it won't be long before teams find a way around this as hard as that is for some to believe right now

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 22/05/2013 11:18:34    1388790

Any team can become successful (without actually winning sam but rather competing well, winning a provencial title etc). You need the right maanger, a dedicated group of players who totally buy into his cause. Of course you will need a few naturally gifted or skilled players to win sam but to compete.

Look at when Micko was at Laois, Padi at westmeath, Johno at Leitrim etc.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 12122 - 22/05/2013 11:24:31    1388797

This threads OP seems to be implying there's an element of unfairness about the SFC. A little bit of whinging going on here? I think so...not good to see coming from a Meath man.

Floops (Dublin) - Posts: 1623 - 22/05/2013 13:25:08    1388924

an element of unfairness?? of course its unfair the dog on the street knows that sure cork and kerry will be in all ireland quater finals for the next 50 years ,imagine what it would mean for longford,cavan, monaghon or antrim to get to a quater final? its a crazy system

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 957 - 22/05/2013 14:30:45    1389001

dickie10
County: UK
Posts: 134

an element of unfairness?? of course its unfair the dog on the street knows that sure cork and kerry will be in all ireland quater finals for the next 50 years ,imagine what it would mean for longford,cavan, monaghon or antrim to get to a quater final? its a crazy system
------------------------------------

Well you're half right, one of them will be. However the other has to face the gauntlet of the qualifiers, anything can happen in those draws.

killer_88_ (Mayo) - Posts: 2040 - 22/05/2013 14:44:03    1389013

Floops
County: Dublin
Posts: 1214

1388924
This threads OP seems to be implying there's an element of unfairness about the SFC. A little bit of whinging going on here? I think so...not good to see coming from a Meath man.

You're implying that I started this thread to whinge? No, I started this thread because since last Sunday it has dawned on me how important the manager and his backroom staff is when it comes to organizing and training inter county teams. Just because it says Meath underneath my poster name doesn't mean my county should be ridiculed for a genuine discussion that is supposed to relate to all countys. Do I feel there's an element of unfairness in the SFC? No, if you want to be the best, you have to train like the best.

TheMaster, you hit the nail on the head there. It seems apparent that if you want to get anywhere in the championship, the perfect way to prepare is by competing in division 1. However, I believe D2 will be quite competitive next year with teams like Donegal, Down, Monaghan, Laois and Meath all in the mix.

RoyalClass (Meath) - Posts: 790 - 22/05/2013 15:57:11    1389100

RoyalClass
County: Meath
Posts: 579

You're implying that I started this thread to whinge? No, I started this thread because since last Sunday it has dawned on me how important the manager and his backroom staff is when it comes to organizing and training inter county teams. Just because it says Meath underneath my poster name doesn't mean my county should be ridiculed for a genuine discussion that is supposed to relate to all countys. Do I feel there's an element of unfairness in the SFC? No, if you want to be the best, you have to train like the best.

but this isn't something new, KEVIN HEFFERNAN took over Dublin at the end of 1973 and implemented a total new type of training regime and won the allireland in his first year in championship in 1974 they hadn't won it since 1963.
Boylan was the same with yous.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 22/05/2013 16:43:14    1389150

I think results in the championship reflect the strength of the teams in the league. The All-Ireland has been won by a division 1 team for the last 10 years. D2 team Galway lose to D1 team Mayo. Dublin with only one other Leinster county in D1 will probably win Leinster. Obviously D1 Kerry and Cork will meet in Munster. In Ulster it looks between D1 Donegal and Tyrone.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1800 - 22/05/2013 17:55:39    1389268

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 1920

The impact of the manager may not be new but the point I'm making is that the near professional approach of;

* Win at all costs
* Train like the professionals
* Give up your social life
* Revolve your living routine around your sport

This is whats new. Gaelic football may not be gone professional officially but it seems the top county teams are training like professionals. I'm just making the assumption that it is inevitable that all teams will have to go down this route at some point because it seems to be the only means of even being competitive at this level.

RoyalClass (Meath) - Posts: 790 - 22/05/2013 19:25:32    1389330

Mayo....Tyrone ..... Donegal......Cork.....all elite Teams....

Kerry and Kildare next.

Then Dublin are in the chasing pack!

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 22/05/2013 19:26:01    1389332

RoyalClass
County: Meath
Posts: 581

1389330 AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 1920

The impact of the manager may not be new but the point I'm making is that the near professional approach of;

* Win at all costs
* Train like the professionals
* Give up your social life
* Revolve your living routine around your sport

This is whats new. Gaelic football may not be gone professional officially but it seems the top county teams are training like professionals. I'm just making the assumption that it is inevitable that all teams will have to go down this route at some point because it seems to be the only means of even being competitive at this level.

I wouldnt disagree ,but other sports are the same. to be sucessful the bar keeps getting raised and the gaa are no different.
Though as was said playing div1 against better teams could have a lot to do with also. div2 or div3 teams mighnt know how far off the pace they actually are until its to late , they think they have done the preparation and then come championship when its too late realise how far behind they really are.
Will be interesting as championship goes along if the gulf is really evident between div1 and the rest.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 22/05/2013 21:35:07    1389415

How is it a surprise that Division 1 teams are the best?? Its why they are in the top division.

mayoman007 (Mayo) - Posts: 159 - 22/05/2013 21:56:07    1389438

Again don't buy into div one thing, is anyone really saying that donegal wont be competitive this year cause they got relegated,? Or more importantly next year?? Are we all saying that this time next year donegal ain't got a snowballs chance of not only winning all ire but been even contenders??? Its management not league football, Jimmy proved one thing, you dont have to have best players to win all ire.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/05/2013 09:19:18    1389455

Well it has them hitting the ground running royaldunne. If you are playing well in the league you will more often than not start the championship well, and more importantly, your team will be more settled. So for the likes of tyrone and donegal, tyrone are in better form, and it will be a bigger ask for donegal to be up to speed. That isnt to say they cant do it, just that they have more to do to get there. The tyrone team is going to be picked on form from games, the donegal team dont have that luxury. Basically, there are more pitfalls for donegal coming into the game.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 23/05/2013 09:45:25    1389461

RoyalClass
County: Meath
Posts: 581


You're implying that I started this thread to whinge? No, I started this thread because since last Sunday it has dawned on me how important the manager and his backroom staff is when it comes to organizing and training inter county teams. Just because it says Meath underneath my poster name doesn't mean my county should be ridiculed for a genuine discussion that is supposed to relate to all countys.


RoyalClass it was you I was ridiculing not your county. It behooves you as a Meath man not to be wailing like a newborn! I couldn't be holding your county in higher esteem by saying that. Now go and show some of the class you claim to have... going by your name...

Floops (Dublin) - Posts: 1623 - 23/05/2013 10:02:23    1389473

royaldunne
County: Meath
Posts: 3741

1389455
Again don't buy into div one thing, is anyone really saying that donegal wont be competitive this year cause they got relegated,? Or more importantly next year?? Are we all saying that this time next year donegal ain't got a snowballs chance of not only winning all ire but been even contenders??? Its management not league football, Jimmy proved one thing, you dont have to have best players to win all ire.

I don't think anyone is saying that but it will undoubtedly be a hindrance. Division 1 matches aid themselves to a better preparation. Cut through all the McGuinness spin about not being bothered with the league and only focusing on Tyrone, they were still very hurt and disappointed when they were relegated. The gulf between Divisions 1 & 2 is not huge as both Tyrone and Kildare proved this year but the standard is definitely lower and managers will find out a lot more about their team's development in the top division.

beir_bua (Kildare) - Posts: 746 - 23/05/2013 11:41:20    1389545

Thanks for putting us in with the elite group there Royalclass.

As a matter of interest I alluded to the same thing on the Meath & Galway thread and was told they they wouldn't be taking advice about football from anybody from Kildare.

Well maybe they should listen to people from the counties that have moved on and they mightn't be left behind.

sedico (Kildare) - Posts: 1682 - 23/05/2013 13:21:24    1389659

Donegal have a "Michael Murphy", we don't. 13 lads putting in the hard yards and having an outlet of huge talent. I would argue that the skill levels bar Murphy and Lacey would be better in Kildare. We just need a "Michael Murphy"!!!!

cilldara13 (Kildare) - Posts: 261 - 23/05/2013 17:36:12    1389965

Stop embarrassing yourself. We're a long way off that standard.

beir_bua (Kildare) - Posts: 746 - 23/05/2013 18:18:59    1389998

Since the dawn of the GAA, the team who's taking the most professional approach has always done the best of everyone. There is nothing at all new here. The game is constantly evolving and it's up to managers and players to find areas for improvement.

The result between Mayo and Galway has been commonplace throughout GAA history. There is nothing surprising about last year's All-Ireland finalists beating a team with 13 men who've failed to win a game outside their province in 10 years.

Former_Poster (Meath) - Posts: 394 - 23/05/2013 18:48:07    1390020