as I previously intimated on another thread snuf, you appear not to have partaken of the emigrant experience....

beal (Mayo) - Posts: 1388 - 14/05/2013 20:38:04    1384147

brendtheredhand: I couldn't have said it better.

festinog (Galway) - Posts: 3148 - 14/05/2013 20:41:03    1384148

Regarding anthems; its really just a tradition and an awkward one at that. Its become an ordeal and the song is actually embarrassed with many cheering well before the song is finished. By preserving it for finals it is restored to a place of pride on a national occasion.

Regarding Unionism. Thats simply not achievable in the short term. In my view, the GAA has a different meaning in the north than it does in the south. For me the GAA is just another sport and the one i choose to follow and have been introduced to. In the north i feel it is more of an expression of national identity as well as a sporting outlet. In that sense Unionism in the main will never adopt it in its current form!

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1663 - 14/05/2013 21:06:28    1384162

There's no point in changing the names of clubs or the playing of the national anthem the way things stand at the minute. Living in Belfast, from my experience alot unionists aren't aware of the basic fundamentals of the GAA, such as a goal is worth 3 points etc... never mind that a small rural club in Tyrone is named after a republican.

If you want to encourage unionist participation in the GAA you have to provide a forum or an outlet for which they can explore it. Though even if facilities where created to help unionists integrate into the world of the GAA, I doubt there would be very long queues for it, most of them are generally apathetic towards the GAA.

JP91 (Armagh) - Posts: 316 - 14/05/2013 21:21:06    1384170

Brendtheredhand,
I agree that we should make no apologies about who we are. My line is this, where superficial obstacles exist that prevent my Protestant friends from picking up a hurl, we should remove them. I sing the songs that remember our fallen heroes, as do they, but I don't sing them around them nor do they, as I would prefer that they weren't offended. There is a time for honouring our dead, and a time for living, "the laughter of our children" and all that.
You say "... we owe no one an apology for who we are or our history of resistance against a foreign oppressor who sought to extinguish the very Irishness that the GAA fought to preserve." I say that the day for defining ourselves (in part) by our anti-Britishness is over. The GAA in the north is now as strong as it's ever been and getting stronger. If the GAA is not accessible by middle of the road Protestants because of Nationalist symbolism then we have created a rod for our own back.

muffin (Antrim) - Posts: 128 - 14/05/2013 21:22:04    1384172

My sentiments exactly, Seany16. It is, as you say, an "awkward tradition". And is made all the more awkward by drunken idiots (often wearing certain green and white hooped shirts underneath their counties fleece)adding their own lyrics...

streaker (Galway) - Posts: 511 - 14/05/2013 21:26:53    1384175

Can anybody think of any other sporting organisation that associates itself with nationalism the way the GAA does? I'd be surprised if there was. The GAA should be about promoting Gaelic culture not nationalism which is ridiculous and simply wrong.

kerryhound (Kerry) - Posts: 37 - 15/05/2013 08:19:52    1384212

It's not played at Ruislip but a good question. I think the diaspora in America are comfortable with being Irish in america, or being Irish American or even Irish and American. For example, at St Patrick days parades you will see both the USA flag and Tricolour. At the USA world cup in 94, I saw soccer shirts that were half stars\stripes, half Ireland shirt. There is an easiness there that doesn't have all the historical\political\Irish\British,Nationalist,Unionist baggage

On the other hand I don't feel the same relationship exists between the Irish\Irish diaspora and Britain\Britishness. I can't imagine A St Pats parade in London or Birmingham being headed by a UJ and a tricolour. If we had qualified for Euro 96 I don't think Irish fans would have worn a soccer shirt that was half an England top\half Ireland top. In fact i don't think any shirt manufacturer or opportunist would have even bothered to produce one.

It's seems difficult for a lot of folk, even the moderates amongst us and I presume those on the unionist side to shift the British\irish psyche thing. For example I am mature enough to hope the island moves on and we need to. BUT.......Would it feel a tad strange\not quite right if GSTQ was played in ruislip ( i would respect it) followed by Amhrán na bhFiann just before the throw in? I'd have to say yes. Great question though SNUF!

Not sure Meath_bhoy if I would agree that there is not a good relationship between the Irish diaspora and the British, I would say that 50% of all our emigrants go to the UK, due to the proximity, language, similarities in culture etc, so if there is a problem in the relationship I would say it is at our end. Yes there is no doubt that back in the bad old days of 'No Irish need apply', being Irish (in London especially) was not easy, however times have changed, and been Irish now in the UK is almost a badge of honour. Rightly or wrongly we probably still have a chip on our shoulder about the British, and yes I know plenty of people will tell me that we can never be at peace with our neighbours across the water until the Northern Ireland question is solved, however that is a political issue and cannot be used against ordinary decent British people. The funny thing is that most British people don't even consider the Irish people (North or South) as foreign, and I think it is us that needs to change and start seeing the British as a friend and not an enemy.

gilly0512 (Galway) - Posts: 1176 - 15/05/2013 11:17:12    1384312

If you want to encourage unionist participation in the GAA you have to provide a forum or an outlet for which they can explore it.
jp91
----------------------

The above comment is why I have already suggested a GAA equivalent of an 'Educate Together' school as a club!!
A club:
Called 'Red Hand' GAA Club,
Home Ground: 'Good Friday Park'
Colours: I dunno....Something like Carlows?

Total focus is on 'the game' in this one club!

People are getting too hung up on the anthem and that has been done to death and 'Irelands Call' and all that stuff over and over on here!

Im not suggesting changing club names or anything, Im just stating that these are obstacles to moderate unionists playing the games!........Thats why I suggest a project begin with one fresh start new club with totally neutral colours/symbols/etc!!

I've just had a thought....as soon as a neutral club springs up and unionists start to play in it.....a rival unionist club will form who will want their own heros as symbols!!!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 15/05/2013 11:21:22    1384317

gilly2308
County: Galway
Posts: 888




Not sure Meath_bhoy if I would agree that there is not a good relationship between the Irish diaspora and the British, I would say that 50% of all our emigrants go to the UK, due to the proximity, language, similarities in culture etc, so if there is a problem in the relationship I would say it is at our end. Yes there is no doubt that back in the bad old days of 'No Irish need apply', being Irish (in London especially) was not easy, however times have changed, and been Irish now in the UK is almost a badge of honour. Rightly or wrongly we probably still have a chip on our shoulder about the British, and yes I know plenty of people will tell me that we can never be at peace with our neighbours across the water until the Northern Ireland question is solved, however that is a political issue and cannot be used against ordinary decent British people. The funny thing is that most British people don't even consider the Irish people (North or South) as foreign, and I think it is us that needs to change and start seeing the British as a friend and not an enemy.

Great post Gilly. I agree 100%.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 15/05/2013 13:39:28    1384416

Exactly right gilly2308, we as a people should examine our own actions far more, we would be far better off if we did. The truth is we see ourselves as the victim far too much in this instance. If we dont change that then we will be slaves to the past for the rest of our days, and who does that serve exactly?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 15/05/2013 13:53:27    1384431

We should definitely be promoting the GAA into the unionist community and I for one would be more than glad to see more participation from the unionist population into our great association and games. The GAA has its part to play but the leaders of unionism must also be able to lead in a more constructive manner and instead of encouraging construction of flagpoles on civic buildings in order to fly a flag they should look more positively as to what we as an organisation can offer, especially to the disaffected youth in loyalist areas. The GAA is still perceived by many from that community as a shadowy side organisation to the Provos. Remember that the unionists live in fear and their elected representatives feed and thrive and control on this fear of being enveloped into a united ireland. It has to be a two way street..

I'm a republican and unashamedly so, I've played soccer , rugby and cricket with my fellow unionist countrymen and not once has religion or identity posed a problem. Why does it have to be the same for them to come play Gaelic sports???

All in all , it's about time we all grew up and faced reality , we have a small island with a lot of different cultures and we should embrace those to make us stronger. It can only make society a better place.

johnjoseph (Derry) - Posts: 158 - 15/05/2013 15:23:25    1384527

Well said johnjoseph!

Now, if you were tasked with this tomorrow...where would you start? Unionist leaders?....See whats acceptable?....Ordinary unionists?.....See what would entice them?
Ask if they actually like or admire the games and see 'what would make them join'?.....Offer them what they want and see if they would still refuse?!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 15/05/2013 15:47:09    1384554

gilly2308
County: Galway
The funny thing is that most British people don't even consider the Irish people (North or South) as foreign, and I think it is us that needs to change and start seeing the British as a friend and not an enemy.

I'm not sure how anyone can think we see Britain as an enemy, Irish people have never been so in love with all things British. Look at the TV we watch(a British news channel is the first thing you see on TV when you fly into an Irish airport), the sport we watch, the papers/magazines we read. Look at the shops on our high streets, where are they from? The Irish Republic alone is the worlds 5th biggest consumer of British goods and services, that's more than 4 other G8 countries, even in a recession. How does that translate into seeing Britain as an enemy?
And if, as you claim, most British people don't even consider the Irish people (North or South) as foreign, does that mean they still consider us all to be British? Thats hardly going to help anyones hang-ups, if they actualy exist, no?

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 15/05/2013 15:48:02    1384555

It seems some people on here find it difficult to differentiate being "pro-Irish" and "anti-British". The two are not linked as far as I'm concerned so please stop stirring it, this thread was started with the intention creating a debate on matters pertaining to GAA, it seems that to the usual supects thats not sufficient.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 15/05/2013 16:37:28    1384602

Brendtheredhand....(and Tyrone people in general) you may want to sit down before you read this, but I'm totally agreeing with the Tyrone man! If anyone has read mickey hartes book they'll find this line 'I wasn't anti anybody, I was pro glencull' in other words what brendtheredhand is saying is true being pro irish doesn't mean your anti British and as someone who is pro Irish, in terms of the game, promoting the language, singing the anthem and supporting Irish culture in general doesn't mean I (or any pro Irish person) has to be bitter towards a British culture. Doesn't mean I'll be out flying the orange flags on the 12th but we'll not be the tri colour either in bigoted opposition

MissDownFanatic (Down) - Posts: 411 - 15/05/2013 16:53:35    1384618

kerryhound
County: Kerry
Posts: 11

1384212
Can anybody think of any other sporting organisation that associates itself with nationalism the way the GAA does? I'd be surprised if there was. The GAA should be about promoting Gaelic culture not nationalism which is ridiculous and simply wrong.

God save the queen is played before the FA cup final o'er the water.

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1075 - 15/05/2013 17:36:01    1384661

@Kerryhound: I take it you've never watched any America sporting event then? Between the "honouring the Troop" montages, giant flags, jet fly-overs, endless maudlin singing of dirge-like jingoistic songs, colour parades... and that's just for the under-12's!

Compared to every professional US sport, the GAA hardly registers.

festinog (Galway) - Posts: 3148 - 15/05/2013 17:44:06    1384672

@Kerryhound: I take it you've never watched any America sporting event then? Between the "honouring the Troop" montages, giant flags, jet fly-overs, endless maudlin singing of dirge-like jingoistic songs, colour parades... and that's just for the under-12's!

Compared to every professional US sport, the GAA hardly registers.

Took the words out of my mouth. You also have the new england patriots, from boston, which was the stronghold of the rebels during the war of indepenance. pretty similar to the lucan situation & east tyrone etc.

I was at a NFL game last year, & as said before between the anthenm (which includes the line "Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution!") the giant flag that was actually 40 yards long (easily measured on a football field) and a parade of returning soldiers and another parade for policeman and firemen from 9/11 (game was in 2012) delayed the game by a good 15 minutes. 82000 americans loved it all! For some reason irish people dont feel okay with promoting their past in the same way.

white.n.blue (Monaghan) - Posts: 249 - 15/05/2013 18:20:44    1384708

God save the queen was not played last week at this year's northern cup final between catholic fan-based Cliftonville and Glentoran whose supporters are mainly unionist/protestant. The decision was taken to make the match "a politically neutral environment" and avoid any trouble. Naturally Glentoran fans were not happy.

beal (Mayo) - Posts: 1388 - 15/05/2013 18:27:56    1384714