This current Derry team is better than the Donegal team Jim took over.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 03/05/2013 21:56:32    1378584

Gaa_lover
County: USA
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1378535 AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 1833



In fairness mc GUINNESS has done an unbelievable job.
In 2007 Tyrone hammered them and monaghan beat them by 8 points in qualifier.
In 2008 lost ulster quarters to Derry and monaghan again in qualifier.
In 2009 lost ulster quarters to Antrim in ballybofey.
In 20010 lost ulster quarters to Down.

wins an allireland and going for 3 ulsters in a row.


Good post AthCliath. I find it amazing how some don't know how far McGuiness has brought on Donegal. Without his gameplan and superb system the results above would still be the norm.

AthCliath leave out is 2002 to 2006.
And also in 2007 Donegal won the National League division 1 title and beat Armagh in their Ulster opener.
2009 Did they win any qualifier games before getting beat by Cork?

McGuinness did bring them on, but I've noticed quite a few people who act like Donegal were like a Division 4 team or something.
2009 the exited to Semi finalists and Ulster champions Tyrone, and All Ireland runners up Cork. Basically top 4 teams.
Might be better starting at 2001/2002 to give a more complete picture of them.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 03/05/2013 22:02:27    1378592

I'd love to see him with a county like Cavan, where he'd have no established senior stars, but a host of talented young players to work with.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 04/05/2013 09:42:23    1378604

I don't know but one thing he would instil a serious team ethic with them, how many of ye have shared Jim's company? if you have ever had a conversation with him you will know he has you eating out of the palm if his hand within minutes, I'm not saying brainwashed but I am saying he has a seriously captivating personality, he has that amazing quality, add in his beliefs and ability as a tactician and football coach he had the balance just right. I always believed that 'Player Physiology' is just the balance when Motivation crosses over to Belief.

He is a serious coach if he has a panel of players at his disposal that are will to give the time and commitment… the answer is yes.

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5491 - 04/05/2013 10:53:29    1378628

Donegal 2003-10 1 NFL D1, 2 Ulster finals, 1 All-Ireland semi-final.

Derry 2003-10 1 NFL D1, 1 All-Ireland semi- final.

Down 2003-10 1 Ulster final, 1 All-Ireland final.

While Tyrone/Armagh were ahead of the pack there was not much between Donegal, Derry and Down. I think the appointment of Jim McGuinness has made the big difference.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1792 - 04/05/2013 11:29:36    1378645

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 452

Derry rival Donegal when it comes to having talented players, Derry are more fillet steak than T-bone. I think if Derry will rise to rival Donegal & Tyrone over the next few seasons, and I believe they have the talent to do it.
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Sorry Gary, but I think you have your Oakleaf-tinted glasses on. As a neutral, I don't believe that Derry have anything like as many talented players as Donegal. They have no-one remotely approaching Michael Murphy or Karl Lacey, and only James Kielt would rival McFadden, McBrearty and McHugh when it comes to attacking talent.

Lads, a fairer question would be 'Could Jim win an Ulster title with Derry?', and even still I'd suspect the answer would be 'no'. Physically, Derry are undersized in comparison to Tyrone and Donegal, and they also have several limited footballers on the first 15. Down are not a great side, but they'll give Derry their fill of it in the 1st round.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 04/05/2013 11:36:57    1378647

No chance. Donegal have a very good group of current players. Murphy, Mc Fadden etc. Derry do not. Good team but not near Donegal's level. Jim is not the messiah in which you think in that he could walk into any county and win an all ireland. Underage is doing ok in donegal. u21 final 2010 etc.

db9 (Meath) - Posts: 283 - 04/05/2013 12:21:57    1378663

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 452



AthCliath leave out is 2002 to 2006
And also in 2007 Donegal won the National League division 1 title and beat Armagh in their Ulster opener.
2009 Did they win any qualifier games before getting beat by Cork?
]McGuinness did bring them on, but I've noticed quite a few people who act like Donegal were like a Division 4 team or something.
2009 the exited to Semi finalists and Ulster champions Tyrone, and All Ireland runners up Cork. Basically top 4 teams.
Might be better starting at 2001/2002 to give a more complete picture of them.

In 2009 they lost to antrim then after a easy run which included cavan and clare in qualifiers cork beat them by 14 points. compare that to last year.
2007 they were hammered in championship.
no one is saying he brought on a div 4 team, he brought on a TEAM that had not won ulster since 1992 , your saying go back to 2002 what has that got to do with anything, if thats the case LAOIS won leinster in 2003 got to allireland quarters last year and were only beaten by a point, would you say if JMCG won an allireland and two leinsters in a row with them that they were always there or there abouts,

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 04/05/2013 12:30:10    1378667

Jim would have won the All Ireland with Down given the panel they had in 2010.

If he took over that side in 2011 he certainty would have improved the team further as opposed to going backwards as they have done over the last 2 years (I do accept that we have lost a number of key players since 2010) - perhaps would have gave the side a decent defense!

LocAnOilean (Down) - Posts: 67 - 04/05/2013 13:54:26    1378708

Let's not fool our selfs here, Down we're one season wonders.

ahsure. (Galway) - Posts: 1710 - 04/05/2013 16:14:37    1378748

03/05/2013 22:02:27
GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 452



AthCliath leave out is 2002 to 2006.
And also in 2007 Donegal won the National League division 1 title and beat Armagh in their Ulster opener.
2009 Did they win any qualifier games before getting beat by Cork?

McGuinness did bring them on, but I've noticed quite a few people who act like Donegal were like a Division 4 team or something.
2009 the exited to Semi finalists and Ulster champions Tyrone, and All Ireland runners up Cork. Basically top 4 teams.
Might be better starting at 2001/2002 to give a more complete picture of them.


AthCliath was right to leave out those years sure if you go back any further you would be left with few of todays players. Strangely enough the Donegal manager in 2007 was the current Derry manager he couldn't build on the NFL success with Donegal will he do likewise with Derry now??

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3655 - 04/05/2013 16:29:18    1378761

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 1840

1378667
In 2009 they lost to antrim then after a easy run which included cavan and clare in qualifiers cork beat them by 14 points. compare that to last year.
2007 they were hammered in championship.
no one is saying he brought on a div 4 team, he brought on a TEAM that had not won ulster since 1992 , your saying go back to 2002 what has that got to do with anything, if thats the case LAOIS won leinster in 2003 got to allireland quarters last year and were only beaten by a point, would you say if JMCG won an allireland and two leinsters in a row with them that they were always there or there abouts,

In 2009 Donegal lost to an Antrim side who themselves then reached the Ulster final were they lost to then reigning All Ireland champs Tyrone.
In the qualifiers Donegal beat Round 1: Carlow, Round 2: Clare, Round 3: Derry, Round 4: Galway, and looking very tired, they got hammered by Cork 7 days later.

As for winning Ulster titles, No team outside of Armagh and Tyrone won Ulster titles between 1999 and 2010, such was their dominance.
Donegal contested Ulster final's in 2002, 2004, 2006, before breaking the Tyrone/Armagh hold by winning 2011 and 2012.
In 10 years they have contested 50% of Ulster football finals.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 05/05/2013 18:36:19    1379168

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 455

1379168 AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 1840

1378667
In 2009 they lost to antrim then after a easy run which included cavan and clare in qualifiers cork beat them by 14 points. compare that to last year.
2007 they were hammered in championship.
no one is saying he brought on a div 4 team, he brought on a TEAM that had not won ulster since 1992 , your saying go back to 2002 what has that got to do with anything, if thats the case LAOIS won leinster in 2003 got to allireland quarters last year and were only beaten by a point, would you say if JMCG won an allireland and two leinsters in a row with them that they were always there or there abouts,

In 2009 Donegal lost to an Antrim side who themselves then reached the Ulster final were they lost to then reigning All Ireland champs Tyrone.
In the qualifiers Donegal beat Round 1: Carlow, Round 2: Clare, Round 3: Derry, Round 4: Galway, and looking very tired, they got hammered by Cork 7 days later.

As for winning Ulster titles, No team outside of Armagh and Tyrone won Ulster titles between 1999 and 2010, such was their dominance.
Donegal contested Ulster final's in 2002, 2004, 2006, before breaking the Tyrone/Armagh hold by winning 2011 and 2012.
In 10 years they have contested 50% of Ulster football finals.

So in 2010 when JMCG took over where would you say they were in the rankings . showing that they contested ulster finals in 2002 ,2004 and 2006 means nothing to the squad he took on. so i dont see why your mentioning it.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 05/05/2013 19:39:31    1379204

So many factors to consider but what Jim done at Donegal taking over a decent county but turning them into double Ulster winners and an All-Ireland winner within two years is remarkable and no one predicated it beforehand. Myself I though Joe Kernan proven winner taking over Galway in 2010 would be a success.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1792 - 06/05/2013 10:01:58    1379319

I would question whether Jim would have the same passion if managing another county. He may well do, but it's an open question. Jim is Donegal through and through and the passion he brings to the role is integral in the success we have enjoyed. As I said, he could bring that to another role as he is a professional at what he does, but it's certainly something to ponder

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 06/05/2013 11:30:40    1379367

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 1844

1379204
So in 2010 when JMCG took over where would you say they were in the rankings . showing that they contested ulster finals in 2002 ,2004 and 2006 means nothing to the squad he took on. so i dont see why your mentioning it.

Well Jim himself stated that in Downings 2010 Donegal were ranked 19th in the country. So that pretty much answer's that.

Your very wrong regarding 2002-2007 meaning nothing with regards the team Jim McGuinness took on in 2010. I've listed the key men McGuinness had in 2010, and have listed the year they joined the Donegal squad.

Kevin Cassidy (2002), Colm McFadden (2002), Christy Toye (2002), Neil Gallagher (2003), Eamon McGee (2003), Karl Lacey (2004), Michael Murphy (2007), Anthony Thompson (2006), Ryan Bradley (2005), Neil Gallagher (2005), Paul Durkin (2004), Frank McGlynn (2006).

Do we agree?

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 06/05/2013 18:34:17    1379589

in all fairness Donegal had a strong team the whole time. they were just not coached properly with john Joe Doherty in previous. Jim made them believe.
Do Derry have the same calibre of players? I don't think so

john_wayne1 (UK) - Posts: 233 - 06/05/2013 20:22:43    1379649

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 456

1379589 AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 1844

1379204
So in 2010 when JMCG took over where would you say they were in the rankings . showing that they contested ulster finals in 2002 ,2004 and 2006 means nothing to the squad he took on. so i dont see why your mentioning it.

Well Jim himself stated that in Downings 2010 Donegal were ranked 19th in the country. So that pretty much answer's that.

Your very wrong regarding 2002-2007 meaning nothing with regards the team Jim McGuinness took on in 2010. I've listed the key men McGuinness had in 2010, and have listed the year they joined the Donegal squad.

Kevin Cassidy (2002), Colm McFadden (2002), Christy Toye (2002), Neil Gallagher (2003), Eamon McGee (2003), Karl Lacey (2004), Michael Murphy (2007), Anthony Thompson (2006), Ryan Bradley (2005), Neil Gallagher (2005), Paul Durkin (2004), Frank McGlynn (2006).

Do we agree?

5 outfield and Durkin were in team that won allireland from 2006. go back 2004 and 2002 and their is less.
Im not saying Donegal didnt have some good players , off course JMG had some good players to start with,he also brought through u21s, to change a team that couldnt win its province and were at a low ebb into allireland champs is some feat. being no 3 in ulster seems a long way away now , next year we could be saying something totally different if they have poor allireland and have to start life next year in div 2.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 06/05/2013 21:44:23    1379723

Just 2 managers in the history of Gaelic football have won all Ireland's managing team outside their native county.
Eugene mc gee (Longford) managed Offaly 1982
John o Mahoney (mayo) managed Galway 1998, 2001.
A number of others have lost finals; mickey Moran with mayo, mick o Dwyer with Kildare, but it a very rare achievement

Mayostar (Mayo) - Posts: 40 - 07/05/2013 08:39:20    1379735

It's often overlooked that Donegal have excellent footballers. They are no mugs, most of them boys have won sigerson, been to ulster finals consistently, quarter finals in 02,03,06,09. Ulster finals in 02,04,06.

Jim brought in a menatlity to push them on but he couldn't have done it with Cavan lets say because quite simply they do not have the footballers. Derry aren't a bad bunch themselves. I'd fancy Jimmy to get them to an Ulster final ;)

For what it's worth. Brian McIver was treated disgracefully by members of our the county board, those in question know exactly who they are. The events surrounding his departure won't be forgotten by those of us with decency up here. If Donegal can't win Ulster i'd like to see McIver get is hands on the anglo celt I'll drive him round O'Donnell park and Gweedore myself.

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1075 - 07/05/2013 14:34:29    1379970