The current Derry panel?

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 03/05/2013 16:06:42    1378392

Let me look in my crystal ball....

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13654 - 03/05/2013 16:25:37    1378407

We can ask this question of many managers.Would Cody,Fergie,Mourhino etc, be as good if they took over a poor team.
This question cannot be asked of Jim though.When he took over Donegal they were absolutely terrible,they were no hopers and under his guidance they coasted to an all Ireland within 2 years.
He probably would win an all Ireland with Derry now that you mention it.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 03/05/2013 16:39:13    1378415

I think the 'magic' of what Jim did was that he did it so quickly with a group of average footballers with maybe 2 or 3 potential star players (McGee, Lacey and Murphy or whoever else you like).

Most county teams would have 1 or 2 players who could walk onto a county panel. And after that all you need is the committment, focus and belief. I don't know if he could win an All Ireland without all of Derry's best players (you know how strong the club scene is there) but he would definitely do something that would otherwise be beyond them. Having said that, not sure how Derry fans would feel about 'the system'.

squareball_1988 (Donegal) - Posts: 343 - 03/05/2013 16:41:16    1378417

You know what thats a very good question.

First of all i think Derry have the right man there in Brian McIver, a man well respected and appreciated in Donegal for what he did and many people regret how he was treated in the end...

anyway back to the main point

I would have to say - as good as he is - No he wouldn't.

First of all History is against him - its 11 championships since a county won an Sam with a manager from outside the county and whilst i'm no statto i'd be willing to bet that the number of football All-Irelands won by managers who were from outside the winning county is less than......feck it i'll say 10 (cue statto ready to bash me)

2nd - I think quite a bit of Jims success is making the players take pride in who and where they are from, i do notice that in a lot of his and the players interviews, talking about representing your county, making the county proud...all references back to who they are and what they are representing....I dunno he could do the same with a Derry man (or any other county) that he is not actually from.

RunOfThePigs (Donegal) - Posts: 131 - 03/05/2013 16:47:58    1378423

In any team sport to win you need the right players..not always the best ones.

crossfieldball (Galway) - Posts: 650 - 03/05/2013 16:49:18    1378425

waynoI
County: Dublin
Posts: 5577

1378407
Let me look in my crystal ball....

while you have it out can you give me the Euro Millions number for tonight

fortyfive (Tyrone) - Posts: 5929 - 03/05/2013 16:54:59    1378428

No. Donegal had been knocking on doors for the guts of ten years before McGuinness took over. It was well documented that the panel were a very talented bunch with some of the best footballers in Ireland (Murphy, Lacey, McGee, Cassidy) but they lacked the discipline and were dubbed the "party-boys". McGuinness was the force that made them Championship-worthy.
I don't think Derry have the same number of t-bone cut footballers.

donegalboy (Donegal) - Posts: 120 - 03/05/2013 16:59:34    1378431

donegalboy
County: Donegal
Posts: 79

1378431
No. Donegal had been knocking on doors for the guts of ten years before McGuinness took over. It was well documented that the panel were a very talented bunch with some of the best footballers in Ireland (Murphy, Lacey, McGee, Cassidy) but they lacked the discipline and were dubbed the "party-boys". McGuinness was the force that made them Championship-worthy.
I don't think Derry have the same number of t-bone cut footballers.

I agree that Donegal have had fairly strong teams for years, and the lack of discipline was shocking at times. However some years they were just unlucky, especially a few times against Armagh. In McGuinness they found the mad man to harness that talent and make them succeed.

Derry rival Donegal when it comes to having talented players, Derry are more fillet steak than T-bone. I think if Derry will rise to rival Donegal & Tyrone over the next few seasons, and I believe they have the talent to do it.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 03/05/2013 17:27:03    1378446

Great credit must go to Jim for what he has achieved. As a regular Ulster watcher over the last forty years there was no occasion in the last 10 years when I would have seen Donegal winning an All-Ireland. They had not won Ulster since 1992 and never even came that close.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1792 - 03/05/2013 17:44:55    1378454

Jim could win Sam with Kilkenny!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 03/05/2013 18:05:20    1378464

This is fairly insulting to Derry's management. Donegal players always had the drive in them and when McGuinness came on board and a batch of determined young players came along it brought about a tipping point whereby they all bought in. And good for them, they were talented enough and disciplined enough to get the rewards from it. It often isn't so. But this is the mythical rubbish about McGuinness that I hate. He didn't come in and hypnothise them. If Derry feel they can do the same then let them go for it. But you could appoint Guadiola to them and it mightn't even turn their heads. At the end of the day the players have to answer to themselves.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 03/05/2013 18:25:51    1378474

Byanthon
County: Tyrone
Posts: 440

1378454
Great credit must go to Jim for what he has achieved. As a regular Ulster watcher over the last forty years there was no occasion in the last 10 years when I would have seen Donegal winning an All-Ireland. They had not won Ulster since 1992 and never even came that close.

I think they came very close a few times, one Ulster final went to a replay against a very strong and dominant Armagh side who seemed to have a mental edge over that particular Donegal team. And they seemed unable to avoid Armagh during those years at all.

Donegal were a decent side, possibly the 3rd best side in Ulster for large portions of that Tyrone/Armagh dominant period. They were able to stay close to the top two in many games, despite not having the same training discipline as their great Ulster rivals.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 03/05/2013 18:39:28    1378486

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 451

1378486 Byanthon
County: Tyrone
Posts: 440

1378454
Great credit must go to Jim for what he has achieved. As a regular Ulster watcher over the last forty years there was no occasion in the last 10 years when I would have seen Donegal winning an All-Ireland. They had not won Ulster since 1992 and never even came that close.

I think they came very close a few times, one Ulster final went to a replay against a very strong and dominant Armagh side who seemed to have a mental edge over that particular Donegal team. And they seemed unable to avoid Armagh during those years at all.

Donegal were a decent side, possibly the 3rd best side in Ulster for large portions of that Tyrone/Armagh dominant period. They were able to stay close to the top two in many games, despite not having the same training discipline as their great Ulster rivals.

In fairness mc GUINNESS has done an unbelievable job.
In 2007 Tyrone hammered them and monaghan beat them by 8 points in qualifier.
In 2008 lost ulster quarters to Derry and monaghan again in qualifier.
In 2009 lost ulster quarters to Antrim in ballybofey.
In 20010 lost ulster quarters to Down.

wins an allireland and going for 3 ulsters in a row.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 03/05/2013 19:17:10    1378504

A better question...............Can Brian Mc Ivor win an All Ireland with .... the Current Derry Panel?

I certainly Hope so.

Manfred (Derry) - Posts: 20 - 03/05/2013 19:19:12    1378507

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 1833



In fairness mc GUINNESS has done an unbelievable job.
In 2007 Tyrone hammered them and monaghan beat them by 8 points in qualifier.
In 2008 lost ulster quarters to Derry and monaghan again in qualifier.
In 2009 lost ulster quarters to Antrim in ballybofey.
In 20010 lost ulster quarters to Down.

wins an allireland and going for 3 ulsters in a row.


Good post AthCliath. I find it amazing how some don't know how far McGuiness has brought on Donegal. Without his gameplan and superb system the results above would still be the norm.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3655 - 03/05/2013 20:36:17    1378535

Rumour has it he's Dublin's next manager!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8783 - 03/05/2013 20:57:22    1378539

I heard he was seen boarding a plane for Barcelona pepe Mc Guinness ?

fortyfive (Tyrone) - Posts: 5929 - 03/05/2013 21:01:34    1378543

The could probably do with counselling after that whopping they just took, no better man that Jim!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8783 - 03/05/2013 21:05:23    1378545

Manfred
County: Derry
Posts: 8

1378507
A better question...............Can Brian Mc Ivor win an All Ireland with .... the Current Derry Panel?

I certainly Hope so.

No Better Tyrone man than our Brian to help out the noisy neighbours

fortyfive (Tyrone) - Posts: 5929 - 03/05/2013 21:16:15    1378551