One skill that seems to be gone from the game is the art of free taking from the ground. There are very few players now who decide to put the ball down and kick the ball over the bar. You have Brian Sheehan (Kerry) and Donnacha O'Connor (Cork) who still kick from the ground. I think its something that should be brought back and get rid of the frees from the hand. I remember great free takers like Brian Stafford, Maurice Fitzgerald, Colin Corkery and Larry Tompkins who were all well capable of taking frees from within the 50m line.

aidan64 (Kerry) - Posts: 668 - 18/04/2013 12:30:52    1369665

Agree that frees from the ground looks much better & it is a far more difficult skill than from the hands. Taking every free from the ground really slowed down the game though, although i'm not sure if there is a much of time difference when it comes to shooting for points.

Taking frees from the ground is harder on the hamstrings & knees too so I suppose its good to have the option as it stands.

county man (Limerick) - Posts: 1143 - 18/04/2013 13:49:17    1369747

In an ideal world I would completely agree but the game has changed. You reference some of the greatest players ever to play the game and naturally their skill set reflected their ability to score from dead frees. There were many in that era who couldn't hit a barn door and often hindsight lures us into a false sense of the reality of the period.

Alan Murphy said recently that on returning to Gaelic Games he was struck by the amount of manufactured units within the game and this begs the question is there room for smaller, technical players? I would often watch Paul Flynn train in Swords -not as a seasoned stalker I may add, merely we frequented the same communal pitches- off season and he would never have a ball with him, he would simply run and run and run in short bursts. He without question is one of the finest players in the game, I've ran off tangent slightly here as I contemplate stalking Paul Flynn, he's a handsome chap but his dental whitening endorsements put me right off.

To conclude, no we won't and shouldn't see a return to dead frees, there was a fella from Mayo in the 89 team Michael Fitzmaurice and he was a free specialist and I always thought we lost a man in order to gain a few frees from him and that isn't prudent in today's game.

take.yer.pints (UK) - Posts: 76 - 18/04/2013 13:58:38    1369760

aidan64
County: Kerry
Posts: 138

1369665 One skill that seems to be gone from the game is the art of free taking from the ground. There are very few players now who decide to put the ball down and kick the ball over the bar. You have Brian Sheehan (Kerry) and Donnacha O'Connor (Cork) who still kick from the ground. I think its something that should be brought back and get rid of the frees from the hand. I remember great free takers like Brian Stafford, Maurice Fitzgerald, Colin Corkery and Larry Tompkins who were all well capable of taking frees from within the 50m line.

You fail to mention the most obvious free taker from the ground in todays game - Stephen Cluxton. Best around by a stretch!

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 2007 - 18/04/2013 14:04:38    1369769

Agree that frees from the ground looks much better & it is a far more difficult skill than from the hands.

I don't necessary agree. Skill is an players ability to choose and perform the right techniques at the right time, successfully, regularly and with a minimum of effort. Techniques are the basic movements e.g. hand passing a ball, kicking a ball from the ground, kicking the ball from the hands etc. Some players prefer the technique of having the ball in hand rather than on the ground in the same way others would prefer to do so off the ground. To say one is more skillful than the other is a misnomer.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 18/04/2013 14:14:26    1369787

Should have been don't necessarily agree

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 18/04/2013 14:28:55    1369799

This, along with the return of crepe paper hats will save gaelic football

Floops (Dublin) - Posts: 1623 - 18/04/2013 14:39:08    1369813

Yes and players should be forced to go out and destroy themselves with drink after every game. That way it will be primarily their skills on show and not their fitness.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 18/04/2013 14:47:12    1369822

One thing that always made me wonder is players who can kick from the ground but vary it between their hands and the ground for some reason. I can remember once seeing Cian Ward kick a free from roughly 40 yards out on the right of the pitch off the ground, he struck if beautifully and it went over the bar. About 10 minutes went by and Meath were awarded another free in about the same position I previously mentioned, this time Ward kicked from his hands and missed. I've often seen players doing this but why change around, I think Cillian O' Connor done something similar on the weekend against Dublin?

tic_for_tac (Meath) - Posts: 151 - 18/04/2013 14:48:47    1369825

tic_for_tac - now that is using their skill to determine which technique to use based on given circumstances e.g wind, rain, underfoot etc etc.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 18/04/2013 14:58:17    1369838

tic_for_tac

I believe that was against Kildare in 2011 in the qualifiers was it not ?

Remember it perfectly , Towards the hospital stand , sweetstrike indeed ......

Personally , i've had the pleasure of watching Giles kick them off the ground , however , it would just not work these days as it slows play down and could possibly encourage cynical fouling ......

M.Simoncelli (Meath) - Posts: 126 - 18/04/2013 17:05:15    1369944

county man
County: Limerick
Posts: 598

Agree that frees from the ground looks much better & it is a far more difficult skill than from the hands.

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 780

I don't necessary agree. Skill is an players ability to choose and perform the right techniques at the right time, successfully, regularly and with a minimum of effort. Techniques are the basic movements e.g. hand passing a ball, kicking a ball from the ground, kicking the ball from the hands etc. Some players prefer the technique of having the ball in hand rather than on the ground in the same way others would prefer to do so off the ground. To say one is more skillful than the other is a misnomer.

I personally think that, while its easier to kick a ball from your hands, its more difficult to kick it with the same degree of accuracy. The ball on the ground doesn't move so there's less variables to contend with. In the end, it's closer to pure technique than kicking from the hand so the requisite amount of practice along with proper coaching of application (as well as the fundamental talent) should, in theory, lead to more scores by this method. Even though there have been some excellent proponents of the free kick from the hands (Canavan and Joyce immediately spring to mind), I never really trust a player kicking it out of the hands the same way I do if they kick it from the ground. Even very good free takers like Brogan and Dolan have missed very handy frees from the hands (the former vs. Tyrone in the 2011 championship and in the league this year against Kerry, the latter vs. Meath in 2003), ones that you would expect a junior player to kick 10 times out of 10 from the same position. Maybe this is an area that should be coached a bit better and earlier because it is a rich source of scores.

Take.yer.pints argued that having a player who was a decent free kick taker but not good from open play deprived the 1989 Mayo team of a player - I'd argue that having somebody who was deadly accurate from frees but nothing else is still worth his place. How many games have we seen slip away due to poor free taking? It could easily have happened to Dublin against Down in the league this year and I still think Wexford would have beaten the Dubs last year had Brosnan been more accurate from the dead ball. I'm sure most posters can think of instances where their team has lost a game due to poor place kicking or been let off the hook by opponents who couldn't convert their frees.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 18/04/2013 18:09:19    1369988

injury also has a big part to play. Michael Murphy takes most frees from hand.
Admittedly he can still kick then from 50.
but then he can and use to hit from the ground but this is harder on injurys.

To me it doesnt matter as long as they done take forever (hate the goalkeepers) and stick them over the bar.

dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 18/04/2013 18:13:37    1369991

Oisin McOnville said that he switched from taking frees from the ground to taking them from the hands after receiving medical advice.

The strain on hamstrings, knees and lower back were the main issue.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5246 - 18/04/2013 18:53:39    1370015

This, along with the return of crepe paper hats will save gaelic football

_______

Hear hear... Well said

+1

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13654 - 18/04/2013 19:00:01    1370020

Nearly all our best free takers at all levels still choose to take frees from the ground. Though it true players are picking up more injuries for example Donal Shine has been struggling the last year with injury he's been taking frees from the ground since schools level.

One of the best ever off the ground frees was scored by Derek Duggan v Mayo in 1991 Connacht final in McHale park. It was against the wind about 60 yards out.

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 4043 - 18/04/2013 19:12:13    1370032

Floops
County: Dublin
Posts: 1163

1369813
This, along with the return of crepe paper hats will save gaelic football

good quality crep paper hats hard to come bye these days nothing like the dye running from the paper into your eyes and nearly blinding yee and also ruining a good shirt in the process .

fortyfive (Tyrone) - Posts: 5929 - 18/04/2013 19:22:20    1370039

Kicking off the ground leads to hamstring and particularly hip trouble. And I always prefer to see a free out of the hands to hang up in the air and go over the bar from 50 yards then a free being scored from the same distance off the ground. Having said that Bryan Sheehan's free taking off the ground in Cusack Park last year was close to arousing..

square_ball_69 (Westmeath) - Posts: 826 - 18/04/2013 19:29:40    1370048

The kicking tee used by goal keepers may prevent injuries for those that take from the ground. TBH i think all frees should be taken from the ground it would stop those players who try to gain a few yards when kicking from the hands.

ispeakwisdom (Roscommon) - Posts: 2487 - 18/04/2013 19:55:50    1370059

ConnollyDub
County: Dublin
Posts: 1267

1369769
aidan64
County: Kerry
Posts: 138

1369665 One skill that seems to be gone from the game is the art of free taking from the ground. There are very few players now who decide to put the ball down and kick the ball over the bar. You have Brian Sheehan (Kerry) and Donnacha O'Connor (Cork) who still kick from the ground. I think its something that should be brought back and get rid of the frees from the hand. I remember great free takers like Brian Stafford, Maurice Fitzgerald, Colin Corkery and Larry Tompkins who were all well capable of taking frees from within the 50m line.

You fail to mention the most obvious free taker from the ground in todays game - Stephen Cluxton. Best around by a stretch!

Have you ever seen any of the other free takers before?

moomoo (Kerry) - Posts: 4023 - 18/04/2013 20:04:49    1370063