ZUL10
County: Clare
I think that having 8 teams in each division makes the drop from 1a to 1b even more catastrophic. 2 x 6 means a more compeditive division 1b and also gives the weaker teams in that diviosn a chance to play some decent opposition.
1A and 1B are only providing 5 games. Teams need more competitive games in the spring. 7 has generally been the right number on that score. The whole point of a league is if you are relegated you will be in a lower division. If the top 2 in a 1B of 8 below a 1A of 8 were able to join the league's quarter-finals, it'd give them a good competitive game ahead of the championship. When Clare and Limerick were in the last division 2 of 8, they competed ok in the following championship.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8897 - 15/04/2013 20:08:53    1368335

kerryluck
County: Kerry
Posts: 1039

1364234 little or no coverage for the lower leagues, it seems the gaa want to keep the elite at the top, and the weaker counties to fall away to the way side

It seems an awful lot of people on this site and nearly every hurling 'anylist' on raidio/television this last couple of weeks eant to do the same thing.

The system currently in place is spot on. It creates very competitive games and rweards the best teams in all divisions. Cork were not good enough to stay up over six matches. They were relegated. That's the way any league in any sports works. People should get on with it and be happy we got the most competitive hurling league in many many years.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 16/04/2013 10:10:02    1368458

where was the coverage for the div3 relegation and promotion play offs, little or none on hoganstand or rte aertel and rte website

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 16/04/2013 10:19:07    1368462

Apparently there's no relegation play-off in 2B. The bottom team Roscommon are relegated to division 3A for next year. Doesn't ,ake sense.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 16/04/2013 10:41:53    1368480

no play off in 2b, really? HS Team of the week reflects that outside divisions 1 & 2 there's no coverage from anyone. Martin McHugh of Monaghan scored 1-10 at the weekend and still couldn't be included. No report of the game either. Things need to change soon.

WillieFrazer (Armagh) - Posts: 38 - 16/04/2013 11:12:34    1368503

Bit strange keeper, given that Fingal and Donegal had to play a final to see who replaced Roscommon in 2B. Speaking of Fingal, I wonder how long it will be before there are two Dublin hurling teams in 1A :-)

Seriously, though, excellent achievement by them and be interesting to see how they get on against the likes of Wicklow, Armagh, Meath and Mayo. Amazing to think that it's less than ten years since Dublin were in same division as Wicklow and Meath!

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 16/04/2013 11:12:52    1368504

Perhaps Roscommon conceded the game? They shouldn't be allowed to do that. Has hurling slipped a bit in Armagh?

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 16/04/2013 11:28:41    1368511

While a 6 team league makes for a lot of excitement in that every game is important, I don't feel its an adequate amount of games to truly assess who's the best team (i.e. the best team may not actually top the table). If you use the premier league analogy, there is very little doubt but that the best team will win over 38 matches, home and away, and the worst teams will be relegated but in this years league Cork won well once, drew twice, lost narrowly once and were well beaten once. That's not exactly relegation form and they were in with a shot of the semi finals on the last day. Tipperary, who topped the league, lost heavily in one, by a point in another, won one by a point and won the other two handsomely. That's not really terribly dissimilar to Cork over the 5 games. Similarly, last year Dublin lost one game well, one by a reasonable margin (4 points), two by just a single point and drew the other. They were quite competitive in most games but still didn't get the results. My point is, with the more teams are in a division, the more likely it is that the best team will finish on top and the worst team at the bottom, which is not necessarily the case as things stand. While entertainment is very important in drawing the fans and promoting the league, it is ultimately a competition to reward the best team.

On the question of whether there should be a league final for each division, I think this is a great idea as i) it gives a sense of achievement to each division, ii) it generally results in a number of teams still having hope of winning the divisions with a couple of games left (perhaps more so in football, albeit), iii) its another high profile event for fans to go to and iv) it gives a lot of counties that aren't in the running for the major honours something to aim for and a day out in Croke Park. If the divisions contained a large amount of teams then I think the team that finishes top should win the league but in the current system, one poor game would cost a team their chance to top the table so I think the playoff final is more equitable.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 16/04/2013 12:09:43    1368543

The county I feel most sorry for is Limerick.They have repeatedly dominated this league but get shafted every year.

but it'll be re-structured this year to suit Cork regardless!

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 16/04/2013 16:28:29    1368790

perfect10
County: Wexford
The county I feel most sorry for is Limerick.They have repeatedly dominated this league but get shafted every year.
but it'll be re-structured this year to suit Cork regardless!

The format is already going to be different for next years league, with quarter finals being introduced, so it was always going to change regardless of who got relegated from 1A.
Also, even if there were further changes, Cork won't be the only ones who get to vote on it, ALL county's get a vote. If there are changes introduced which better suit the top teams at the expense of the developing ones (which I hope doesn't happen), it will be down to county boards of the lower division teams not caring about what happens to their inter-county hurling teams.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 16/04/2013 16:41:03    1368797

Just read this article, I think it actually sums up pretty well why we end up with ineffectual competition structures that don't really suit anyone

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/martin-breheny-hurling-league-mess-down-to-democracy-gone-mad-29201687.html

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 17/04/2013 17:29:46    1369328

Would Wexford & Offaly back an 8 team top division seeing as they'd still be outside it?

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 17/04/2013 17:44:20    1369340

keeper7,absolutely not.i'd back maybe 2 groups of 7 with 3 from division 1A this year in one,and 4 from it in another,but i would consider us as a re-building county and to be honest we got absolutely done during the last re-structuring.
so the answer is no!

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 17/04/2013 19:15:53    1369381

keeper7
County: Longford
Would Wexford & Offaly back an 8 team top division seeing as they'd still be outside it?

As long as there was proper promotion/relegation, they needn't be outside for long. If you had divisions of 8, then a 2 up/2 down system would be fair enough. I know Wexford got a raw deal the last time the league was restructured, but they haven't finished in the top 2 of 1b since then, have they? I'd love to see Wexford, and Offaly, back in the top flight. But a league should still be a league. The current structure may not be fair, and Offaly and Wexford have been caughtbut whatever league structure is there, teams have to be prepared to work to get promoted or retain status.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 17/04/2013 19:34:20    1369393

Marlon_JD I agree with you,we need promotion/relegation,and nobody in Wexford would want otherwise.but yes we did,we beat Clare 3 years ago and only for the re-structuring of the league we were up.the year before we got a draw v Tipp in Thurles and thought we were safe only for the re-structuring that year,we lost out to Cork on scoring difference in spite of Cork not fielding a team for the first 2-3 matches.
its fair enough not being promoted or being relegated by not being good enough but sorry,were getting a bit sick of being always the ones who lose out in this constant meddling with the league.ok I know we are realistically 9-10-11th in the country but still its hard not to get frustrated at always being the county who lose out at the expense of the "traditional" few.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 17/04/2013 20:04:12    1369412

perfect10
County: Wexford

Marlon_JD I agree with you,we need promotion/relegation,and nobody in Wexford would want otherwise.but yes we did,we beat Clare 3 years ago and only for the re-structuring of the league we were up.the year before we got a draw v Tipp in Thurles and thought we were safe only for the re-structuring that year,we lost out to Cork on scoring difference in spite of Cork not fielding a team for the first 2-3 matches.
its fair enough not being promoted or being relegated by not being good enough but sorry,were getting a bit sick of being always the ones who lose out in this constant meddling with the league.ok I know we are realistically 9-10-11th in the country but still its hard not to get frustrated at always being the county who lose out at the expense of the "traditional" few.

Listen, I thought it was lousy what happened to Wexford when the league was last restructured, but I'm really getting tired of all this being blamed on the 'traditional few'. Wexford wouldn't have been done over in that restructuring if they hadn't been second from bottom that year. Even though they should have had a head start on Cork, they still finished behind them. That's not Galways or kilkennys or Tipps fault.

And again, if you're unhappy with the league structure, and think it doesn't serve teams like Wexford or Offaly well (and I'd agree with you), blame the counties who didn't vote against these structures, i.e. the majority of delegates from all county boards. These things aren't done to suit the 6 or 7 hurling counties, they're done to benefit the majority of other counties which want to concentrate on football, and would like to see hurling in their own county sidelined so its not a distraction.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 17/04/2013 21:27:51    1369466

Marlon_JD
County: Tipperary
Posts: 417
Good point in fairness to you. I feel they should really look into a two up and two down system. Look, Im from Limerick and I have every confidence it will just take us time for us to get out of this league, we have the players now and hopefully another year wont be too damaging to our young guns. The problem is for teams like wexford, ofally, laois and antrim. If by some chance they managed to have a great league, they still have to play a league final to stop them progressing. In football however a weaker county, like Limerick in this case in division 4 are all ready assured of promotion by simply being in the final of the league.What a boost it would do to hurling if Antrim managed to spring a few results in next years league, then got into a final. Whatever the result they could have Kilkenny coming there next year. The Buzz around Belfast would be unreal. the same might be possible for teams like carlow and laois.

Fishermantom (Limerick) - Posts: 569 - 18/04/2013 11:19:16    1369599

Marlon_JD i wasnt suggesting that we didnt deserve to be relegated,or that we are at a very low ebb at present,but being relegated on scoring difference when cork didnt field a team was unfair.sure what was to stop us giving kilkenny a walkover for example in case it'd effect our scoring difference?their scoring difference for each game they missed should be -20 points.
but anyway,thats off the topic and dont want to do that.

you make a very valid point regarding the non-hurling counties voting for things they have no interest in nor does it effect them.it's a hard one to know what is best to do with that situation but to be fair,any county not competing in the league should not have a voice,or else below division 1B it should be the managers of the teams who are consulted,because ultimately they are the ones who care in those counties.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 18/04/2013 12:32:59    1369668

There are 2 semis being played Sunday isnt there? Just theres no talk of them in here at all!

Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 18/04/2013 13:04:44    1369689

Why not have 10 teams playing 6 games in 1 league table ?
League table positions are not as critical when a muti-team knockout decides the league.
Accordingly, a partial round robin should suffice where everyone gets a fair sprinkling of competitive games.
For knockout, why not have 1v6, 2v5 and 3v4, with highest placed winner getting a bye to the Final.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3281 - 18/04/2013 13:10:33    1369697