little or no coverage for the lower leagues, it seems the gaa want to keep the elite at the top, and the weaker counties to fall away to the way side

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 09/04/2013 17:12:08    1364234

Top 2 leagues in Hurling should be 8 and 8 in each 2up 2 down simple.
Its a farce that Limerick have won in league last couple of years and are still not promoted.

hound (Meath) - Posts: 234 - 09/04/2013 17:58:08    1364301

Bennybunny & Marlon_JD: We all know that Kilkenny are miles ahead of everyone else, but they have not actually qualified for the final yet. They still have to at least show up for the semi-final against Galway and there's always the chance that their bus might break down on the way.

Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 1034 - 09/04/2013 19:21:03    1364362

hound

Clare topped 1b last year and won the promotion game

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2697 - 10/04/2013 09:13:33    1364531

It's a shame to see people so negative about a league which has been highly entertaining & keenly contested. The main shortcomings are the number of games & teams like Limerick don't get games against the likes of Kilkenny. I'm starting to like the "wildcard" system I mentioned before where a team in 1B gets 2 games against 1A opposition (1 home, 1 away) as well as their five 1B games. Over time, the gap between 1A & 1B would hopefully narrow.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 10/04/2013 16:04:42    1364945

Fair point Kerryluck but its the same in all sports in all countries..In all fairness I cant see a huge audience for tv for a wicklow v Kildare or similar type game can you?

juniorbsub (Wexford) - Posts: 646 - 10/04/2013 16:10:25    1364953

bet the league will be changed if cork go down

Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2987 - 10/04/2013 16:20:20    1364965

bennybunny you must be rubbing your hands in glee so at the even money offered by bookies for cats to win and retain all ireland?your so certain its a formality.how much you having on if its 100% profit on 5 months?!?!

kavvie (Clare) - Posts: 505 - 10/04/2013 17:53:29    1365062

The last division 2 of 8 was beneficial for Kerry. In 2011 it gave good competitive games and they went onto win the Christy Ring Cup. While some disagree, Kerry were right not to join the Munster Championship. What Kerry needed was to be playing in the similar division 2 of 8 again, testing themselves against whichever big counties happened to be in the division.
The current more fenced off structure of league and the less games it brings is not beneficial at all. 7 league games has always been about right. For a footballing county, Kerry are doing alright at our level in hurling. The Causeway vocational school have had some good teams. Out senior county champions have competed ok in the Intermediate Munster club championship.

Divisions of 8 are the only way to bring a bit of fairness. Division 2 would mainly consist of 5 McCarthy cup teams when it's reduced to 13 counties and 3 Ring teams. The better Ring teams need to test themselves against McCarthy Cup teams at some stage. I can only repeat, the division 2 of 8 teams is the best way for that.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8897 - 10/04/2013 20:07:39    1365186

I agree with legendzxix. top 2 divisons should be 8 and 8. The lower leagues could be broken down into divisions of 6 as standard really tapers off plus from a logistical and financial aspect, very hard for hurling teams in football dominated counties to fulfill fixtures if they lose the first 2-3 lge games.
A 10 team div 1 leaves too much of a gap in standard between div 1 and 2. id also have 2 up and 2 down. top 2 can go thru to the league final. promotion is based on final league position, not a 1 off play off final. If for example you had this system next year, then for Div 1 it wud be this years 6 1A teams plus dublin n limerick. if clare n limerick were relegated, then tough, take your medicine and bounce back. also likes of offaly n wexford would get a chance at a year in the top grade and i feel either could survive up there. also for the likes of carlow, laois, antrim etc they are playing teams of a similar standard and maybe over 3-4 period they could get to a stage where promotion might be possible. also, a promtion based on league position gives them a far better chance of acheiving this, and they would know they had got their on merit if they did. plus teams like kerry, meath, down,westmeath, who do great work to promote the game, can progress gradually by playing the same standard every year n not worrying about taking hidings or else dishing them out to teams they are clearly superior too. this system worked well for most of 70/80s and early 90s. Nice and simple system and allows a more even and realsitic playing field.

thats my 2 cents.

Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 1056 - 12/04/2013 12:15:17    1366468

plus I would start the league in mid march and run it over 2 months to mid may, start championship in June and every team then has had lots of competitve hurling under their belt in time for championship.

Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 1056 - 12/04/2013 12:27:03    1366483

Limerick manager John Allen spoke very passionately and very well about the need for Limerick to be in the top division on seo spoirt last night,but there has to be some element of sacrifice involved.I mean if there is no promotion or relegation there will be nothing really to play for and therefore the league will become totally pointless.You could lose all eight games and nothing would change.
As it is now every game is important and teams want to to do well and I think the Nhl has been great this year.I often complain about the need for gaa people to embrace the league as it is an untapped source of revenue and interest,and I belive that having a lot at stake as it is now encourages teams to try to do well I the league.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 13/04/2013 17:24:32    1367063

Even though it's not what I'd want, I'd prefer a division 1 of 10 and a division 2 of 8 below it with the winner of division 2 having to take on 10th of division 1 in a play-off. As I say, it's not what I'd want to see but I'd prefer to see my county in a division 2 like that that the current 2A or the proposed change coming in next year where 2A winner takes on 1B relegation final loser. You're still obviously talking of a play-off between the divisions but at least the divison 2 of 8 would provide much more competive game time ahead of counties respective championships.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8897 - 13/04/2013 17:39:08    1367076

joncarter
County: Galway

Limerick manager John Allen spoke very passionately and very well about the need for Limerick to be in the top division on seo spoirt last night,but there has to be some element of sacrifice involved.I mean if there is no promotion or relegation there will be nothing really to play for and therefore the league will become totally pointless.You could lose all eight games and nothing would change.

Fair comment, there has to be some consequence to finishing bottom, just as there has to be some reward for finishing top. Although in Limerick's case, to be fair, they did finish top of their league, but still didn't get promoted. I still think you could have room for 2 teams to be promoted/relegated between 1a and 1b, or at least have a play-off-promotion game between the runner-up in 1b and the second from bottom team in 1a.
Unfortunately, it'll all be academic from next year on, as practically all teams will get into the quarter finals regardless of where they finish in either division. More or less.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 13/04/2013 17:59:30    1367094

Limerick were hard done by last year alright,no argument there.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 13/04/2013 18:02:50    1367096

Its a simple case of paying lip service to lower divisions. Same as in fball. Div 1 gets semis, the others dont. Take kerry who finished level in 2a with laois and wmeath. Nothing for them. If the in 1a they d be in a semi and have something to play for still. Same in fball. Whats the ractionale?

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2631 - 13/04/2013 19:15:28    1367135

good point old-yellar. There are inconsistencies between divsions which would be good to sort out.

mikeyjoe (USA) - Posts: 415 - 14/04/2013 13:21:14    1367306

The reason in football is the top 2 in the lower divisions gain promotion. The final then is to decide the division winner between those 2. Now some would argue league should be league, as would I but that's a different argument.

As there is no promotion from division 1, it was seen more appropriate by them who make the rules to bring in semi-finals in division 1. It achieves their goal of more games between the top teams. The need isn't the same in the lower divisions. I think it's a fair call. ONe solution doesn't suit all. Here's a case in point and to be fair, they've implemented it correctly here.

If there was to be any slight change, I'm only putting it out here now more than being a support of it, the top team in the lower divisions could be rewarded by guaranteed promotion and place in the division final. 2nd and 3rd then could play-off in a semi-final with the winner going on to the final naturally and earning promotion as well. It's an idea but I think things are grand as they are in the football league.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8897 - 14/04/2013 14:40:09    1367333

There needs to be changes after this failure of a league campain. Meath win every game handy enough and still don't get promoted, Limerick go unbeaten and still they are stuck in division 1b. Kildare and Monaghan didn't win a single game in their groups this year and still manage to avoid religation. I've given some thought to this solution its not ideal but its the best I can come up with.

Division One: 10 teams. Top four into semi finals bottom two take the drop. 9 games with the first two played off in November or December.
Division Two, Three and Four: 8 teams. Two up, two down same as football.

What peoples opinions on it? Better or Worse than what we have and what the Gaa are bringing in?

Jackos_Wacko (Kerry) - Posts: 417 - 15/04/2013 16:53:48    1368181

I think that having 8 teams in each division makes the drop from 1a to 1b even more catastrophic. 2 x 6 means a more compeditive division 1b and also gives the weaker teams in that diviosn a chance to play some decent opposition.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 708 - 15/04/2013 18:37:06    1368272