In tight games will managers put on subs in last few minutes as sacraficial lambs with regard to suspension?

Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 545 - 23/03/2013 18:47:04    1354749

Its as simple as this, the black card is issued to deliberate fouling, where a player makes little or no attempt to fairly stop an opponent. So if you make a geniune attempt to tackle, you should be fine. I would have preferred a sin bin but I'll take just about anything to stop cynical fouling, its so frustrating to watch.

CaisleanCnucha (Dublin) - Posts: 1379 - 23/03/2013 18:47:37    1354751

I've been reading through all your posts lads. I find my self agree with done points being made on the need for these things to be eradicated also.Unless I've missed it though I don't seem to see the difference in the issuing of a yellow or black card. When does a book able yellow card of fence become more and warrant a black where you can replace a player?
Isn't it going to be extremely contentious,especially on the field between the ref and player involved?

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 23/03/2013 18:49:25    1354752

CaisleanCnucha
County: Dublin
Posts: 162

1354751
Its as simple as this, the black card is issued to deliberate fouling, where a player makes little or no attempt to fairly stop an opponent. So if you make a geniune attempt to tackle, you should be fine. I would have preferred a sin bin but I'll take just about anything to stop cynical fouling, its so frustrating to watch.

refs are not consistent on the basic rules how will they be consistent on this, what 1 ref will see as deliberate another will see as a genuine attempt to get the ball, also if a ref is not sure, the players reputation will count against him for some refs even if he did make a genuine attempt to get the ball, how would that be fair to a player?

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 23/03/2013 18:54:11    1354754

Imagine a forward bearing down on goal. A defender already on a yellow card tries to stop him. If he legitimately goes for the ball but mistimes the challenge, he gets a second yellow and his sent off. If he deliberately pulls downs the forward he gets a black and can be replaced. How can that encourage fair play?

The whole idea is flawed

JP91 (Armagh) - Posts: 316 - 23/03/2013 18:57:02    1354758

JP91
County: Armagh
Posts: 17

1354758
Imagine a forward bearing down on goal. A defender already on a yellow card tries to stop him. If he legitimately goes for the ball but mistimes the challenge, he gets a second yellow and his sent off. If he deliberately pulls downs the forward he gets a black and can be replaced. How can that encourage fair play?

The whole idea is flawed

totally agree

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 23/03/2013 19:09:51    1354767

KerryLuck

refs are not consistent on the basic rules how will they be consistent on this, what 1 ref will see as deliberate another will see as a genuine attempt to get the ball, also if a ref is not sure, the players reputation will count against him for some refs even if he did make a genuine attempt to get the ball, how would that be fair to a player?

_____________

We are just going to have to trust the referee like with anything else, all players have to do is be honest and tackle hard but fair, then there should be no problems. The point of people already making numerous excuses ust annoys me, players choose their own fate with this rule, sure the ref could make a mistake but he could also make a mistake with several other rules all the same.

CaisleanCnucha (Dublin) - Posts: 1379 - 23/03/2013 19:32:25    1354780

I agree completely with JP91 that could be a problem.

CaisleanCnucha (Dublin) - Posts: 1379 - 23/03/2013 19:33:29    1354781

JP91
County: Armagh
Posts: 17

1354758
Imagine a forward bearing down on goal. A defender already on a yellow card tries to stop him. If he legitimately goes for the ball but mistimes the challenge, he gets a second yellow and his sent off. If he deliberately pulls downs the forward he gets a black and can be replaced. How can that encourage fair play?

The whole idea is flawed
23/03/2013 19:09:51


Very true.

But in the early stages if games as a player if ur unsure going into the tackle ud be better going with the intention if getting a yellow rather than an honest attempt which maybe be mistimed but lead to you being sent from the pitch.

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 23/03/2013 19:56:23    1354802

My immediate assumption to JP91s situation would be that they make an exception if the player is already on a yellow.

CaisleanCnucha (Dublin) - Posts: 1379 - 23/03/2013 20:07:42    1354810

JP91
County: Armagh
Posts: 17

1354758
Imagine a forward bearing down on goal. A defender already on a yellow card tries to stop him. If he legitimately goes for the ball but mistimes the challenge, he gets a second yellow and his sent off. If he deliberately pulls downs the forward he gets a black and can be replaced. How can that encourage fair play?

The whole idea is flawed

That's a very good point. I presume between now and January refs will be going through these type of 'what if' scenarios in sort of official capacity.
In this case surely the idea is he'd get a second yellow and not the black book which is the lesser sanction.

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 23/03/2013 20:14:54    1354813

A lot of people are saying that the untroduction of the Black care will really effect the norther teams, Well watching the Down/Dublin game I would have to say that Dublin would end up as a 7 aside team; |How long more Gavin will persist with Connolly, he can be a great player but his discipline is a joke, he will cost Dublin a serious match yet by getting the line, No place in any panel for a player like that in this day in age

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5491 - 23/03/2013 20:23:20    1354822

Yeah, I think interpretation will be the key. If it's only brought in for the situations we all hate, where teams are currently getting an advantage from fouls in certain situations then it'll be fine. And that's probably what will happen. I think there's two much alarmist stuff here, people going on about the first 30 seconds of the All-Ireland final. Real doomsday stuff. In the real world the refs will implement the laws with common sense. And presumably that will mean that a player on a yellow will see a second yellow regardless of the nature of their foul. Although the language in the rulebook will need to be clear to prevent appeals in this regard.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 23/03/2013 20:27:37    1354824

@ Horsebox

How can you criticize Dublin and completely ignore Down when they've done at least as much cynical fouling as us if not more, in the first half there were 2 or 3 cynical fouls I spotted from Down.

I do agree on the Connolly point though his attitude is a big problem, and it may well cost us, but hes too talented to leave on the sideline.

CaisleanCnucha (Dublin) - Posts: 1379 - 23/03/2013 20:36:19    1354834

I'm totally against it and I'm a referee

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1688 - 23/03/2013 20:40:30    1354842

Superglue - in the scenario outlined, the defender who fouls MUST get a black card. He has deliberately pulled down an opponent, that is a new 'cynical foul' which is a black card. Off he goes and on comes a fresh set of legs with a clean slate. Just one of the many ways around this rule. I firmly believe that players/managers can adapt and could use it to their advantage

EnolaGay (Tyrone) - Posts: 653 - 23/03/2013 20:56:20    1354855

CaisleanCnucha
County: Dublin
Posts: 169

I didn;t totally ignore Down, but Dublin have the players but have to resort to this style when missing the Brogan's etc.

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5491 - 23/03/2013 21:01:40    1354861

I watched the Dublin v Down there and I counted 10 black cards that should have been dished out. This will be good craic!

On another note, the rule states about a player being pulled down...what if he is pulled from behind but doesn't go down? Is that still a black card? Or will this encourage players to go down when they feel contact?

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1433 - 23/03/2013 21:09:32    1354866

benjyy most players in the gaa already throw themselves to the ground at the slightest bit of contact anyway so whats the difference?
The lawmakers are getting all the blame here but its the players and managers who play the game cynically who ye should be criticising to be honest.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 23/03/2013 21:18:35    1354872

I don't know why cynical play is being tackled in football, but being completely ignored in hurling.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 23/03/2013 21:21:47    1354875