I think the ref should give a the player who commits a cynical foul a white hankey on his way of the field, he should then be taken to the back of the stand lined up against a walk with the hankey over his heart and put in front of a firing squad. They defiantly wont commit another foul and would act as a deterrent.

I think the FRC would love that proposal.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1948 - 21/03/2013 18:59:50    1353715

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 742

1353687 seany16
County: Dublin
Posts: 834


There are no rules to address the intentional personal foul that is intended to prevent teams from advancing to score.

Yes there is, it's called a yellow card.

Regarding fairness. Your totally missing the point. If you don't commit fouls of this nature you won't lose players. Its as simple as.

If a team has a strong bench it can commit fouls with impunity, safe in the knowledge that it has a strong replacement to come on. If a team doesn't have a strong bench that safety net is not there. The net effect is that two teams facing each other can take a different approach to professional fouling. This is inherently unfair.

A yellow card is not adequate punishment for denying a team an equalising or winning score as the game enters the closing minutes by commiting a personal foul of the nature we are discussing. Nor is it adequate punishment for denying a clear goal chance at any time in the match by commiting such fouls. I've advocated on this forum many times that i favour a black card and a 21 yard free for such infractions. It is also not adequate punishment to deny a team a counter attacking approach as tactical fouling is so easy. Cheating as a tactic is not acceptable and simply is not covered by a yellow card.

The 2nd point you make is a good one and one i havn't thought about. However i seriously doubt players will exercise such tactics safe in the knowledge they are out of the game. I wouldn't fancy training all year to be benched in a huge game due a infraction that is easily avoidable. Its a good point you made but i'm unsure and there is no guarantee that teams would be able to get away with what you suggest.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1663 - 21/03/2013 19:01:59    1353717

seany16
County: Dublin
Posts: 836



A yellow card is not adequate punishment for denying a team an equalising or winning score as the game enters the closing minutes by commiting a personal foul of the nature we are discussing. Nor is it adequate punishment for denying a clear goal chance at any time in the match by commiting such fouls. I've advocated on this forum many times that i favour a black card and a 21 yard free for such infractions. It is also not adequate punishment to deny a team a counter attacking approach as tactical fouling is so easy. Cheating as a tactic is not acceptable and simply is not covered by a yellow card.

I agree with you about the 21 yard free & have advocated such a soloution. I think that the free coupled with the yellow card is more than enough without adding an extra layer of complexity

The 2nd point you make is a good one and one i havn't thought about. However i seriously doubt players will exercise such tactics safe in the knowledge they are out of the game. I wouldn't fancy training all year to be benched in a huge game due a infraction that is easily avoidable. Its a good point you made but i'm unsure and there is no guarantee that teams would be able to get away with what you suggest.

If you think teams wouldn't take advantage of this then you don't know either JMcG or Mickey Harte!!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 21/03/2013 19:15:48    1353727

What are the total number of subs allowed under the new proposals?
Regarding the black cards , are the 3 forced replacements part of the total substitutions allowed or are they extra substitutions?

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 21/03/2013 19:35:18    1353743

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 743
There is a list of rules & punishments the length of your arm for rugby tackling & cynical fouling.
Just because the officials are either unwilling or unable to enforce the with the powers they have does not mean that giving them extra powers will help.

I agree completely the officials and the powers that be have let this game down badly, if something isn't done about it will be the death of it. Can't understand how week in week out in the same game same ref we get the same inconsistency which is ruining the game. The pulling and dragging is a farce but there are many teams use it as a tactic they do their homework on the ref's and before you know it you hybrid rugby.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4955 - 21/03/2013 19:41:11    1353746

No further cards are needed. Give a red card if ye stop a certain goal by fouling. Give a yellow card if ye stop a certain point by fouling.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 21/03/2013 19:43:21    1353749

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 743

If you think teams wouldn't take advantage of this then you don't know either JMcG or Mickey Harte!!!

Well systematically taking turns at cynical fouling (i.e picking up a yellow card) would be eradicated. Thats a current problem as a yellow card means little or nothing in terms of a suspension.

As regards the above you mentioned. I'm not sure. The risk of an important player finding the line is a huge deterant. You simply cannot plan who will be in what position during a game. Approaches are methodical but there are limits to it. For example, MDMA was hauled down by a cynical foul in the 2011 final when running towards goal. You cannot plan what player commits that foul, its practically impossible. The above is just an example btw, there are many many more!

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1663 - 21/03/2013 19:44:59    1353751

shaggylegend
County: Monaghan
Posts: 668

1353715
I think the ref should give a the player who commits a cynical foul a white hankey on his way of the field, he should then be taken to the back of the stand lined up against a walk with the hankey over his heart and put in front of a firing squad. They defiantly wont commit another foul and would act as a deterrent.

A variation on this would be to give the miscreant a naggin of whiskey, a loaded revolver a& leave him alone in the dressing room for 5 minutes. Last time they will commit a professional foul

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 21/03/2013 19:48:24    1353756

one of the most important debates on rule change in the gaa and nobody talking about it.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1948 - 22/03/2013 12:24:58    1354025

yes

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 22/03/2013 13:13:43    1354067

I'm against it, but I would have agreed with sin bin.
I would be in favor of bringing in a clearly defined tackle bit like used in Oz rules/compromise rules.
The only way you may tackle a player is with a shoulder or to try and play ball away with open handwhen
the player is soloing or bouncing ball,
which is not enforced with the amount of pulling and dragging going on in games there would be frees every 20/30 seconds if it were
enforced.

hound (Meath) - Posts: 234 - 22/03/2013 13:27:58    1354084

Hardtimes
County: Cavan
Posts: 23

1353743
What are the total number of subs allowed under the new proposals?
Regarding the black cards , are the 3 forced replacements part of the total substitutions allowed or are they extra substitutions?

great point anybody know the answer,i think they should be classed as subs as extra punishment anyway

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 22/03/2013 14:42:22    1354164

someone explain how is this going to make refs decisions more consistent?, what 1 ref might give a balack card for another ref might give a yellow card or another ref might do nothing at all

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 22/03/2013 15:20:21    1354200

To deliberatively pull down an opponent.
To deliberately trip an opponent with hand, arm or foot.
To deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of the movement of play.
To use abusive or provocative language or gestures to players.
To remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a match official.

all the aspects of the game i dont like, so anything that stops it is good imo

FOB (Dublin) - Posts: 912 - 22/03/2013 15:24:47    1354205

A black card will be shown for the following;

To deliberately pull down an opponent
To deliberately trip an opponent with the hand(s), arm, leg or foot
To deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play
To threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a teammate
To remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a Match Official

At present, these are all yellow card offences. I don't see how recategorising them as 'black card' offences will eradicate them from the game. Teams will simply get to replace a player with a new player. Given the majority of these fouls occur towards the end of a game, I don't see how it would change the mindset of anyone tempted to commit a foul. Surely it could be seen as an advantage. A tiring player commits one of the above fouls to prevent a score, gets a black card, and is replaced by fresher legs.

The team fouled against still don't get their score and the team who committed the foul get a fresh pair of legs for the closing stages - surely that's a win/win situation?

EnolaGay (Tyrone) - Posts: 653 - 22/03/2013 15:25:25    1354207

it might not make refs more consistent but itd make players think twice they do the following

To deliberatively pull down an opponent.
To deliberately trip an opponent with hand, arm or foot.
To deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of the movement of play.
To use abusive or provocative language or gestures to players.
To remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a match official.

as it stands, officials do very little to stop this, and its soccerlike cheating in my book

FOB (Dublin) - Posts: 912 - 22/03/2013 15:28:05    1354211

So your better of getting a Yellow card than a Black card. seems odd

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 22/03/2013 15:28:57    1354213

"At present, these are all yellow card offences. I don't see how recategorising them as 'black card' offences will eradicate them from the game. Teams will simply get to replace a player with a new player."

EnolaGay, Yes, but the player who committed the offense will be off and hed think twice about it next time. If the lad on the bench comes on, the offender is gone but the game isnt compromised As it stands, its worth doing because a yellow is only a warning.

FOB (Dublin) - Posts: 912 - 22/03/2013 15:33:53    1354218

What are the total number of subs allowed under the new proposals?
Regarding the black cards , are the 3 forced replacements part of the total substitutions allowed or are they extra substitutions?

Thats a good point & will have a massive effect on the game. If its 65mins into a game and you have no subs left then what stops a player getting a black on purpose to get fresh legs on. Under the rules if you call the ref a p***k for example that will be a black card. very easy to do.

white.n.blue (Monaghan) - Posts: 249 - 22/03/2013 15:38:34    1354225

Is there any penalty for consistently being blackcarded or is it only for the duration of game.

hound (Meath) - Posts: 234 - 22/03/2013 16:02:08    1354247