Greengrass
County: Louth
Posts: 2500

Wouldnt disagree with a lot of what you say, funny i was only thinking of mickey ned today and the clatterings he got in that game, ye lads have been taken out games before its happened through every decade, but the way the game is going as was said you wont see a goal like Eoin mulligans again.
maybe the black card wont work ,maybe it will.
im not totally in support of the black card the way its designed,
but this issue of stopping players runs has to be addressed.
the fact that its debated so much now will hopefully put pressure on coaches not to feel the need to work on it before games.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 26/03/2013 20:32:31    1356965

Since television came in we have been witnessing slowly but surely the erosion of the gaelic football game. Nobody admits it but committees are being set up and the rules are being constantly changed to make the game look nicer for the armchair viewers. As a result the real game has been destroyed and even the mentality of players is changed. Players turn their body now to receive a shouder into the chest and so win a free ! If a player falls from a challenge 8/10 refs will give a free no matter how that player went down. Cynicism is taking over everywhere. And what difference is the black card going to make? The teams with big squads (club and county) will have all the advantage because it will make no difference to them. In a few years we're going to have four or five counties with any real hope of winning an A.I just like hurling....and this additional black card is just going to speed up the rot. I hope I'm wrong.

nevergivein (Roscommon) - Posts: 115 - 27/03/2013 10:15:29    1357080

nevergivein
County: Roscommon
Posts: 113

1357080
Since television came in we have been witnessing slowly but surely the erosion of the gaelic football game. Nobody admits it but committees are being set up and the rules are being constantly changed to make the game look nicer for the armchair viewers. As a result the real game has been destroyed and even the mentality of players is changed. Players turn their body now to receive a shouder into the chest and so win a free ! If a player falls from a challenge 8/10 refs will give a free no matter how that player went down. Cynicism is taking over everywhere. And what difference is the black card going to make? The teams with big squads (club and county) will have all the advantage because it will make no difference to them. In a few years we're going to have four or five counties with any real hope of winning an A.I just like hurling....and this additional black card is just going to speed up the rot. I hope I'm wrong.

YOU PROBABLY ARE RIGHT!

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 27/03/2013 10:59:10    1357114

Eugene Mc Gee seems optimistic about Black card saying managers will tell players you just cant do it.
Teams go out to win and win at all costs.

hound (Meath) - Posts: 234 - 27/03/2013 12:47:29    1357178

Its easier said than done giving a player a straight red for an infringement in a full contact sport, (on paper no contact bar shouldering). There would be the issue of players throwing themselves on the ground looking to get a player a straight red. It is going to be an interesting year that is for sure. I also think that a 21 yard free for a black card offense would disrupt the flow of the game something awful. Imagine how many scores there would be from them. There is also the issue of fouling when a team is threatening goal. Do you award the 21 free after the goal. or would there b an advantage? too many variables in this scenario, I would have to credit the gaa for already thinking about all of this, and going with the black card initiative. We have a leading ref endorsing this rule as well. I think we should respect the experience rather than be armchair experts.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3852 - 27/03/2013 13:04:20    1357193

Eugene Mc Gee seems optimistic about Black card saying managers will tell players you just cant do it.
Teams go out to win and win at all costs.


I'd agree with this. The black card will be most successful if there are none issued.

The 5 second advantage rule is also a very positive improvement to the game.

Floops (Dublin) - Posts: 1623 - 27/03/2013 15:01:25    1357345

Simply put: against.

There is an inherent problem with black card rule, which others have already mentioned. Any rule that can be manipulated by both teams, needs to be seriously considered whether any rule change should ever be made not least passed into motion.

DL17 (Donegal) - Posts: 86 - 27/03/2013 15:34:28    1357383

Can see the merits of the black card, I really can. Nobody wants cynical fouling, butif theres a chance of a goal happening and your up by 2 or 3 points near the end of a game there's no way a card of any sort will stop you fouling.. can see the weaker teams being devestated by this as they won't have the panels to match bigger and better squads.

Jimmy192 (Mayo) - Posts: 107 - 27/03/2013 15:59:57    1357410

Can see the merits of the black card, I really can. Nobody wants cynical fouling, butif theres a chance of a goal happening and your up by 2 or 3 points near the end of a game there's no way a card of any sort will stop you fouling.. can see the weaker teams being devestated by this as they won't have the panels to match bigger and better squads.

Jimmy192 (Mayo) - Posts: 107 - 27/03/2013 15:59:58    1357411

While he is quite articulate,I often find that joe brolly calls games wrong and is prone to doing u turns on his opinions but I liked his piece on the black card,and fair play to him for naming and shaming two particular managers who are the worst offenders.
I have no doubt that there will be teething problems here,but remember,the fault lies with the players and managers who play the game cynically,and not the lawmakers.If we abandoned this embarrassing,self destructive win at all costs policy and played the game properly wed be grand,but seeing as how we wont,then the men in suits have no choice but to act.
All in all a good article by Joe,except for where he says that Tyrone are the best Gaa county in the country (most Tyrone people wouldnt know which end of a hurl to hold)

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 28/03/2013 09:44:43    1357767

the sin bin rule would have been more effective and simple to implement.it was tried out a few years ago but was never given a chance.

toe2hand (Galway) - Posts: 223 - 28/03/2013 10:31:24    1357791

Joncarter can you put up a link to that article please. I would be interested in reading it.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6181 - 28/03/2013 10:57:36    1357805

Anyone read McKeever's reaction to this. He reckons the GAA will be dead within five years and suggest that everyone could be playing rugby within five years. He shows an total ignorance of the new rule. My espect for the man has just disappearded. The GAA dead in five years??!!

Tha anti side are pretending thatr this whole thing has not been thought through - suggesting people will leave the GAA, refs won't be able to implement them, people will start diving etc etc. These people should op on. Its no surprise that the anti are coming from teams who rely on the synical foul as part of their 'systems of play'.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 28/03/2013 11:45:43    1357844

I agree with you culann, mckeever's article is pure scremongering, and in my opinion a bit dishonest. For instance he says that it will introduce cheating, he doesnt make any attempt to explain how or why, just that it will. If im not mistaken, it is being introduced to prevent cheating...

Is there a single footballer or manager from ulster that has agreed that this needs to be dealt with?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 28/03/2013 13:06:36    1357903

just read Joe brollys article - yeah he tells it how it is alright...

Floops (Dublin) - Posts: 1623 - 28/03/2013 13:12:34    1357907

Jus wondering what ref would do in this case: a player is straight through on goal, he is rugby tackled but as he goes down he toe pokes the ball into the net. The ref blows as the ball is crossing the line. What does he do?? If he lets the goal stand (advantage) does he still black card the guilty player??

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 28/03/2013 13:21:54    1357918

Brolly
County: Monaghan
Posts: 3116

1357918
Jus wondering what ref would do in this case: a player is straight through on goal, he is rugby tackled but as he goes down he toe pokes the ball into the net. The ref blows as the ball is crossing the line. What does he do?? If he lets the goal stand (advantage) does he still black card the guilty player??



The ref doesn't have to blow his whistle immediately - that's the advantage rule. He has 5 seconds (which is plenty of time) to gather his thoughts and make a decision so as the foul happens he can wait, see what the outcome is then allow the goal and give a black card.
For me this takes huge pressure off the ref as they can be inclinded to make rash off the cuff decisions to show that they are in control.

Floops (Dublin) - Posts: 1623 - 28/03/2013 13:36:13    1357934

When the black card comes in you will have a basically three cynical fouls per team before you loose a player.
It is quite easy to see the first two being used by managers in there thinking and game plans,especially to slow games down
when ther team are in control or to stop the other team from gaining momemtum.

hound (Meath) - Posts: 234 - 28/03/2013 13:47:05    1357942

Once the ref can distinguish between a deliberate body check or obstruction and the coming together of players contesting a ball there should be no issue. Tripping or pulling someone down are fairly clear cut situations as is abuse. The other areas of contention could be where a player knocks another down while trying to knock the ball away and if a forward grabs a defenders arm and both end on the ground will the forward get black carded? because this is one of the most cynical and coached acts taking place at the momenf

lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 429 - 28/03/2013 13:57:20    1357950

hound
County: Meath
Posts: 154

1357942
When the black card comes in you will have a basically three cynical fouls per team before you loose a player.
It is quite easy to see the first two being used by managers in there thinking and game plans,especially to slow games down
when ther team are in control or to stop the other team from gaining momemtum.


i suppose that could be a problem hound, if anything allowing 3 black cards before a red is probably too lenient. A team that's a point up with 5 to go could gladly take the 3 black cards to slow up play and a guy who's about to collapse with exhaustion might just welcome it.

Floops (Dublin) - Posts: 1623 - 28/03/2013 14:00:55    1357954