Against; the rules are already in place to deal with these incidents.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9819 - 21/03/2013 14:28:49    1353460

refs/linemen/umpires should be rated on the consistency of their decisions, having a black card/sin bin is not going to solve the problem or make the officials more consistent,

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 21/03/2013 14:33:25    1353466

I have said in the past that linesmen and umpires should be given far greater powers on the pitch.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9819 - 21/03/2013 14:37:13    1353471

Rugby tackling and cynical fouling are a plague on our games and are not dealt with by any means with any rule. A yellow card for a rugby tackle that deny's a team a crucial score is not adequate punishment. I fear particular counties from many areas will block vote to deny this and it will take a major incident in a major game to change things along with all the embarrassment that will come from such an incident. Change now and we will deal with it and move on, voting against will only delay the inevitable and cause some serious damage in the short term.

I'm 100% for this change but i fear the GAA with its current voting system will learn the hard way once again!

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1663 - 21/03/2013 14:44:30    1353476

To be honest lockjaw I amn't. Looking beyond county loyalties for a second, I think it is important to the game that if cynical play is being addressed then it needs to be applied to all cynical tactics, not just when a guy gets pulled down at the last second. Otherwise we will just see teams changing from fouling in front of the goal to fouling everything out the field. And that will ruin the game, both as a spectacle and a competition.


MuckrossHead
I remember early in last year's final, a Mayo player getting a very early yellow. The commentators response was that it was very harsh to be handing out yellow cards so early in the game!!!!!. This is the attitude that has to change.

I wouldnt totally agree with that. If it was a deliberatly cynical, calculated foul then yes. But there are some instances where early in the game where the occasion can result in a clumsy or over-zealous foul. I wouldnt really be in favour of a guy getting carded in such an instance. I dont think if offers anything to the game.
Also, the card you are referring to in the mayo game wasnt even a foul. Which is the other side of the coin. Refs shouldnt be booking guys for the sake of giving the team a card either. That is an indication of an outside influence at play and I believe any ref who would be fooled by said influence really isnt fit for purpose. Similarly any outside influence attempting to engage in such acts should be made example of, as they are bringing the game into disrepute.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 21/03/2013 14:57:27    1353488

Can anyone tell me, if a player is on a yellow card and then rugby tackles a player ( ala Cadogan on Murphy) does he get a yellow (so sent off) or a black card (can be replaced)?

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1433 - 21/03/2013 14:57:52    1353489

seany16
County: Dublin
Posts: 832

1353476
Rugby tackling and cynical fouling are a plague on our games and are not dealt with by any means with any rule.

There is a list of rules & punishments the length of your arm for rugby tackling & cynical fouling.

Just because the officials are either unwilling or unable to enforce the with the powers they have does not mean that giving them extra powers will help.

As an earlier poster said this will help those already strong teams who have depth on the bench to make up for any player who has to leave the field for a black card. Where is the fairness in that?

The fact that 90% of the players are against black cards tells me as much as I need to know.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 21/03/2013 14:58:04    1353490

seany16
County: Dublin
Posts: 832

1353476
Rugby tackling and cynical fouling are a plague on our games and are not dealt with by any means with any rule. A yellow card for a rugby tackle that deny's a team a crucial score is not adequate punishment. I fear particular counties from many areas will block vote to deny this and it will take a major incident in a major game to change things along with all the embarrassment that will come from such an incident. Change now and we will deal with it and move on, voting against will only delay the inevitable and cause some serious damage in the short term.

I'm 100% for this change but i fear the GAA with its current voting system will learn the hard way once again!

Its not going to sort the problem, there will still be inconsistency's between what ref define has a cynical foul

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 21/03/2013 15:11:50    1353499

For.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13654 - 21/03/2013 15:22:54    1353506

Against in its current form anyway. What happens if you end up where 5 players of a team have to be replaced? - a trigger happy ref in effect. Are we going to increase county squads?
You might have a game where a team gets there player sent of (and ok he is replaced) for a cynical foul and another player goes in on a high tackle and gets a yellow...where is the fairness there?

Maybe a sin bin might be the way to go.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11657 - 21/03/2013 15:47:22    1353535

I think the black card is flawed in so many ways it can't be implemented. If a team has tactical fouling as their agenda then they will just delay implementing it until later in a game if they can build a lead. what happens in club games where so many small junior clubs have been hit badly with emigration and are working on a squad of maybe 15 - 20 players leaving the black card as a severe disadvantage to these clubs.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1677 - 21/03/2013 16:04:36    1353557

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 737


There is a list of rules & punishments the length of your arm for rugby tackling & cynical fouling.

Just because the officials are either unwilling or unable to enforce the with the powers they have does not mean that giving them extra powers will help.

As an earlier poster said this will help those already strong teams who have depth on the bench to make up for any player who has to leave the field for a black card. Where is the fairness in that?

The fact that 90% of the players are against black cards tells me as much as I need to know.

There are no rules to address the intentional personal foul that is intended to prevent teams from advancing to score. These are not fouls on the ball these are specifically fouls on the person where no attempt to play the ball is made nor indeed possible!

Regarding fairness. Your totally missing the point. If you don't commit fouls of this nature you won't lose players. Its as simple as.
21/03/2013 15:11:50
kerryluck
County: Kerry
Posts: 885

Its not going to sort the problem, there will still be inconsistency's between what ref define has a cynical foul.

There is inconsistency is all things refereeing in Gaelic Football. The tackle is still not properly and consistently called for example. Yet we don't call for the tackle to be taken out of the game. Your above point is a cop out imo. The cynical and tactical fouls that this rule caters for a pretty easy to see. Its unrealistic to assert that refs couldn't spot it when everybody else can!

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1663 - 21/03/2013 16:29:37    1353581

Im against it.

If a player is given a yellow both he and his manager knows where they stand.

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 21/03/2013 17:15:57    1353613

Not a fan at all. i know if im playing full back up by 2 points and there forward in through on goal il still pull him down. Sur jesus if ya didnt the manager would kill ya for thinking abiut urself n not the team! More to the point it will kill junior football in the likes of monaghan and other small counties.

white.n.blue (Monaghan) - Posts: 249 - 21/03/2013 17:17:51    1353615

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 5911

1353471
I have said in the past that linesmen and umpires should be given far greater powers on the pitch.

they have got the powers its just they never use them enough,think back to last year when eoghan o gara point was waved wide and the linesman callled the ref over and told him it was a point and changed the decision.
also in this years national league the ref did not award paddy andrews a penalty for being tripped but instead went into the umpire consuted and he told him it was a penalty.
so they can make these calls just most tend to not want to get involved in the game it seems.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 21/03/2013 17:22:33    1353619

For!. You need sharp action to end the culture. Especially at the end of matches when players not on yellow cards know they can get away without much penality whilst stopping a score.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 21/03/2013 17:26:21    1353626

@witnof

How does a black card punish these players more than a yellow card? They are allowed to bring a fresh player on and they still stop the score. How is that a punishment?

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1433 - 21/03/2013 17:30:21    1353632

I am for the Black Card.
Its a big cop -out to say, let the rules as they are and the referees as they are implement the rules as they are.

As they are is simply -not working.

Cynical fouliing is there and there for all to see.

Its not that any one particular county is cynically fouling more than any other. Its that if a team builds a lead, then they can have a succession 'take a yellow for the team ' attitude and practice. This is happening almost every week and what was once the preserve of football has now crept into hurling over the past few years also.

Yellow cards are not punishment enough for those who foul when a goal is the likely outcome but where the player is dragged down just outside the small aquare. He prevents a goal and 'takes ' a yellow in return for a point.

Plenty of examples over the past few weeks of this.

I am a long term admirer of Tyrone with their skill and their intensity but to see some of their players last weekend pulling down Dublin players in the last 10 minutes is a typical example - a naked example of what has been happening of late. Nothing to be proud ofI believe. It is not the way to win a game. Its an abuse of the current system and a way of hiding behind the rules to win.

The GAA now has a chance to nip this practice - a cancer- in the bud and rid us of it once and for all.
Then let the referees do their job!

The current system does not deal with the blight that is there. So I say to counties who have a vote -have the courage to do the right thing to promote what is best in the game and not the players who try to use the current rules to cynically win a game.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1881 - 21/03/2013 17:59:09    1353659

Definately against. Gaa always chopping and changing. Any cynical fouling should result in a 25 yard free for the fouled player. #SORTED

KingOfJacks (Kildare) - Posts: 361 - 21/03/2013 18:13:27    1353679

seany16
County: Dublin
Posts: 834


There are no rules to address the intentional personal foul that is intended to prevent teams from advancing to score.

Yes there is, it's called a yellow card.

Regarding fairness. Your totally missing the point. If you don't commit fouls of this nature you won't lose players. Its as simple as.

If a team has a strong bench it can commit fouls with impunity, safe in the knowledge that it has a strong replacement to come on. If a team doesn't have a strong bench that safety net is not there. The net effect is that two teams facing each other can take a different approach to professional fouling. This is inherently unfair.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 21/03/2013 18:21:04    1353687