It would be great for Ireland to host the RWC in 2023, but with the majority of stadia being GAA stadia, I can't see the IRB being overly confident in this.

I am generally against any joint bid for major tournaments - belgium-holland, austria-switzerland, japan-s korea, poland-ukrane. . and would love to showcase our stadia and country to the world.

However, when the idea of hosting the tournament was discussed, a joint bid with scotland and wales was mentioned. Not ideal from an irish point of view, but seems more realistic - wales used the millennium stadium in 2007 when france hosted the tournament and will use it again in 2015 when england host it. This leads me to believe that Wales have some sort of pull within top IRB circles and will insist on the Millennium stadium being used should the RWC be held within an asses roar of their country.

So a joint bid of the celtic nations seems to be more likely, using:

Croke Park
Aviva
Thomond Park
Ravenhill

Millennium Stadium
Liberty Stadium
Cardiff City Stadium

Murrayfield
Hampden Park
Celtic Park
Ibrox


It would be nice to think that we might be able to provide more GAA stadia, but soccer stadia are far more suitable to be honest.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5244 - 24/03/2013 12:33:16    1355035

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 4113

1355030
24/03/2013 11:12:10
moomoo
The relevance of it shows how big a bandwagon Rugby has been. Everyone shows up when things a going well and no sign of them when there not. More proof of this is a lad i know who is involved with a Rugby club here in Kerry, when it looked like Munster would go out of the Heineken Cup he couldnt get rid of tickets for there last 2 games yet when they didnt go out everyone wanted tickets for the last game. What would you call that?
GAA has a huge bandwagon following. where are all the supporters for league games which make up the majority of teams games every year? Yet there is then thousands looking for championship tickets.
Oh so you know a lad............
I would call that a sign of the times. People are still struggling with money and there's a lot of people with f all discretionary cash and will not spend it on match tickets esp when it looks like the team would go out. 1 of Munsters last 2 games was abroad as well so that would have been an issue

Not really as he said for the last few years when Munster were going well people were looking for tickets for all the games so clearly it has nothing to do with the times. I also have to laugh at Rugby fans when they wont admit to Rugby being the biggest bandwagon sport to ever come long in Ireland. The fact people are starting to lose interest in Munster at the same time they start to have less success shows that but like always im sure you have an excuse to justify that. The same fans who are not going now are the people who have been claiming to be life long fans and how that the bandwagon is coming to an end where are they? Say what you want but within the next fews years Rugby will go back into obscurity and the so called life long fans will have a new bandwagon to follow

moomoo (Kerry) - Posts: 4023 - 24/03/2013 12:48:29    1355041

mod
Mayo
Very short sighted decision. It makes absolutely no sense. What next Dunnes Stores giving Tesco a dig out for "the good of the country" ? Lazy but predictable cliche from ashure. A foretaste of the media take on this ridiculous decision.


Excellent post Mod. The government are involved in this somehow, its similar to the
Obama and the English Queen visits, where another 'world stage' event is needed to
distract the masses away from the fact that this country is in economic disarray! The
Romans used to call this sort of thing 'bread and games for the masses'!

TheGateKeeper (Tyrone) - Posts: 2843 - 24/03/2013 13:08:48    1355055

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 4113

15 people? and where was that? and whats the relevance of that number compared to 80'000ish who were actually watching a game not watching players walk through an airport on their way home

Ormond, I'm merely pointing out how fickle rugby fans are. Look, there were 20,000 fans greeting them in 2009 after the grand slam. http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/14180.php Yet just two years previously, nobody wanted to know these lads....well not nobody, 15 people showed up.

Here's the source for the figure I got, and its also an example of the cringeworhty tripe that the rugby media engage in when Ireland play matches. http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/the-day-irish-rugby-reached-a-perfect-pitch-26340460.html

You must call this as it is ormond, the bandwagon brigade at their finest. Real fans support their teams through thick and thin, I think its fair to say that is not the case here.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 24/03/2013 13:19:54    1355058

24/03/2013 12:33:16
cavanman47
It would be great for Ireland to host the RWC in 2023, but with the majority of stadia being GAA stadia, I can't see the IRB being overly confident in this.
I am generally against any joint bid for major tournaments - belgium-holland, austria-switzerland, japan-s korea, poland-ukrane. . and would love to showcase our stadia and country to the world.
However, when the idea of hosting the tournament was discussed, a joint bid with scotland and wales was mentioned. Not ideal from an irish point of view, but seems more realistic - wales used the millennium stadium in 2007 when france hosted the tournament and will use it again in 2015 when england host it. This leads me to believe that Wales have some sort of pull within top IRB circles and will insist on the Millennium stadium being used should the RWC be held within an asses roar of their country.
So a joint bid of the celtic nations seems to be more likely, using:
Croke Park
Aviva
Thomond Park
Ravenhill
Millennium Stadium
Liberty Stadium
Cardiff City Stadium
Murrayfield
Hampden Park
Celtic Park
Ibrox
But why a tri nations bid when we could do it all ourselves. multi country world cups are not that great. we are more than capable of doing it on our own if everyone works together
Wales only got those games in 07/15 in the bid wrangling. we would do otherwise to get votes.

24/03/2013 12:48:29
moomoo
Not really as he said for the last few years when Munster were going well people were looking for tickets for all the games so clearly it has nothing to do with the times. I also have to laugh at Rugby fans when they wont admit to Rugby being the biggest bandwagon sport to ever come long in Ireland. The fact people are starting to lose interest in Munster at the same time they start to have less success shows that but like always im sure you have an excuse to justify that. The same fans who are not going now are the people who have been claiming to be life long fans and how that the bandwagon is coming to an end where are they? Say what you want but within the next fews years Rugby will go back into obscurity and the so called life long fans will have a new bandwagon to follow
jeez your bitter. aren't you
Im not the biggest fans of some sports but would never wish a sport to "go back into obscurity".
Munster and rugby is not a bandwagon. Success breeds support. that doesn't mean its a bandwagon. GAA fans are bandwagon fans as well. where are the huge numbers of supporters for the league. loads of fans/players have came out with statements like "its only the league". ye have fans who don't and more than likely never will attend league games yet will be the first in line for championship games. that is bandwagonning (using your favourite word)

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 24/03/2013 13:23:45    1355061

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 4114

But why a tri nations bid when we could do it all ourselves. multi country world cups are not that great. we are more than capable of doing it on our own if everyone works together
Wales only got those games in 07/15 in the bid wrangling. we would do otherwise to get votes.


well that's my point - we could do it all ourselves but i don't think the IRB would go for it. i agree, and stated above, that multi-country bids aren't great.

but compare the stadia (and city) list i put forward to any all-irish list and it just looks more realistic - ALTHOUGH, LIKE I SAID, NOT IDEAL AND NOT THE WAY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT GO.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5244 - 24/03/2013 13:31:39    1355066

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 4114

24/03/2013 12:48:29
moomoo
Not really as he said for the last few years when Munster were going well people were looking for tickets for all the games so clearly it has nothing to do with the times. I also have to laugh at Rugby fans when they wont admit to Rugby being the biggest bandwagon sport to ever come long in Ireland. The fact people are starting to lose interest in Munster at the same time they start to have less success shows that but like always im sure you have an excuse to justify that. The same fans who are not going now are the people who have been claiming to be life long fans and how that the bandwagon is coming to an end where are they? Say what you want but within the next fews years Rugby will go back into obscurity and the so called life long fans will have a new bandwagon to follow
jeez your bitter. aren't you
Im not the biggest fans of some sports but would never wish a sport to "go back into obscurity".
Munster and rugby is not a bandwagon. Success breeds support. that doesn't mean its a bandwagon. GAA fans are bandwagon fans as well. where are the huge numbers of supporters for the league. loads of fans/players have came out with statements like "its only the league". ye have fans who don't and more than likely never will attend league games yet will be the first in line for championship games. that is bandwagonning (using your favourite word)

Another great Rugby quote anyone who doesnt agree are told there bitter or jealous. Of what? All there ''success''? Yes it is a bandwagon as much you and the other Rugby people try to claim otherwise

Bandwagon Fan
Anyone who claims they are a "fan" of a particular sports team, even though they had no prior support for/interest in the team until that team started winning. These types of fans only show playoff interest, have probably never watched a regular season game, don't own any type of team merchandise, nor would they buy any.

That somes up Rugby to me. Apart from the don't own any type of team merchandise as Rugby fans (more over Munster) out of no where come along with there ''Munster by the grace of God'' bull where was that 15 odd years ago? Again ill ask where were the fans who go around shouting that out?

Most Kerry league games have 3/400 people at them, in fact a lot of Kerry league games have bigger crowds then championship games so that out an end to that theory. Same cant be said for the ''die hard'' Rugby fans

moomoo (Kerry) - Posts: 4023 - 24/03/2013 13:37:05    1355068

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 4113

1354826 23/03/2013 20:15:55
mikeyjoe
For anyone who supports the RWC in Ireland, what would you say if Croke Park was renamed Heiniken Stadium?
Instead of the Sam Maguire Cup, the All Ireland SFC winner receives the British Petroleum Trophy?
Not relevant to the argument and no neither of those scanarios will ever happen

------

Stadiums all over the world are bidding naming rights to corporations to raise revenue. Will Croke Park change the name...? I hope not, but the idea has probably already been talked about.
One of my points is that once the debate becomes that the RWC should be held in GAA grounds because it will provide jobs and boost the economy then ANY idea that produces revenue is on the table. Whether it is naming trophies or stadiums, leasing grounds, etc. Past GAA President Sean Kelly hinted at that when he said that county grounds could be developed for other sports but does not see the need for club grounds to do so. But when clubs see how much the county grounds are improved then they will naturally feel some pressure to open their grounds for other uses for profit.

Basically this situation is a real estate contract. Rugby has a growing number of fans, hence money, but they need pitches. The GAA can use the revenue and has a vast amount of real estate.

mikeyjoe (USA) - Posts: 415 - 24/03/2013 13:51:36    1355076

Is this another step in us 'maturing as a nation?'

Or did we mature as a nation when the Rugger goys didn't boo God Save the Queen in Croker?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13795 - 24/03/2013 13:55:12    1355077

Is this another step in us 'maturing as a nation?'

Or did we mature as a nation when the Rugger goys didn't boo God Save the Queen in Croker?

Yeah, I would be strongly behind the GAA's decision yesterday but this sort of condescending rubbish is head-wrecking. It also ignores the more important truth in Irish sport. The majority of those heavily involved in soccer and rugby are far more anti-GAA than GAA people are anti-"foreign games". That would certainly be my experience around Kildare and Dublin anyway. But still the cliche persists.

Also there seems to be a pandering for international recognition from the outside world from those who come out with lines such as that above which is one of the worst and most immature attitudes that this country persists with. As a nation we are mad keen to be loved by others. That's fine, it keeps us on good behaviour when abroad but this idea that something's not worth doing unless someone from another country tells you how great we are most recently best defined by Jerry Kiernan isn't very smart. There is something to be said about having the confidence to know who you are without being told by someone outside Ireland. For me that is real maturity and it's something the GAA has in abundance.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 24/03/2013 14:13:20    1355089

ormondbannerman
County: Clare

royaldunne
County: Meath
. and oh yes Croke park, using the bigoted logic of some we should have refused to allow Croke park to have anything to do with special Olympics, well at least the British team anyway, cause let's be honest that's what this boils down to the assumption that both rugby and soccer are Brit's and we should have nothing to do with them. I have no great liken for either rugby or soccer but I'd watch either game over hurling, does this mean i can condemn stick and ball game been played in Croke park? There is a certain element within the gaa that thrive on bigoted, bordering on racist views towards anything outside the "tradition " no wonder Jason Sherlock and Lee chin faced such disgusting treatment.
Finally this will be good for both the organization and the country as a whole.
Rant over and congratulations to the delegates who showed that narrow mindedness is finally been got rid of
+1 excellent post.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Well, there you go. If the anyone has any reservations, they're not only bitter and out of touch, they are in fact racist. And of course, the canard of this having to do with a problem with our neighbours is belched up, regardless of what anyone has said previously. Seems some people really can't move on.
Then the poster who, quite reasonably, stated that the people supporting the stadia being used had practical and viable reasons (and there are good reasons), gives a +1 and dismisses everyone elses opinions as racist in doing so.
You'd think after everything we've gone through in Ireland over the last 5 years, we'd be more tolerant of people asking questions, examining all possible outcomes, and generally looking before we leap. Not so I'm afraid, we seem to be immaturing as a nation.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 24/03/2013 14:34:18    1355104

Agree fully double hop. Work in a rugby/soccer culture and the attitude towards the GAA is sickening, we're all just a bunch of "bog-ballers" or "stick-fighters"....until they need the use of of our stadia.
Mixture of country and Dublin workers and the attitude is evenly mixed.
No problem with renting out the grounds, makes commercial sense and can't see a huge loss of players to rugby because of this so in my view its a no-brainer. Can't see how its anyway like Tesco helping Dunnes, that is not comparing like with like in any sense.
Also the attitude of some is so typical of the inferiority complex we display as a nation, we love to have our heads patted and told how great we are. At times we seem to crave the compliments and approval of others, compare this with other small nations like New Zealand, Denmark, Iceland. It seems to go from the top of our government right down through all strata of our culture and anyone who doesn't agree is labelled "out-dated, insular etc.

Can't make match today, listening on radio, so best of luck Kildare.....

commander (Kildare) - Posts: 225 - 24/03/2013 14:42:49    1355108

24/03/2013 13:31:39
cavanman47
well that's my point - we could do it all ourselves but i don't think the IRB would go for it. i agree, and stated above, that multi-country bids aren't great.
but compare the stadia (and city) list i put forward to any all-irish list and it just looks more realistic - ALTHOUGH, LIKE I SAID, NOT IDEAL AND NOT THE WAY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT GO.
Why wouldn't they? No reason why IRB wouldn't go for it. What reasons do you think would stop IRB deciding to have a single nation host a world cup.

24/03/2013 13:37:05 moomoo
Another great Rugby quote anyone who doesnt agree are told there bitter or jealous. Of what? All there ''success''? Yes it is a bandwagon as much you and the other Rugby people try to claim otherwise
Bandwagon Fan- Anyone who claims they are a "fan" of a particular sports team, even though they had no prior support for/interest in the team until that team started winning. These types of fans only show playoff interest, have probably never watched a regular season game, don't own any type of team merchandise, nor would they buy any.
That somes up Rugby to me. Apart from the don't own any type of team merchandise as Rugby fans (more over Munster) out of no where come along with there ''Munster by the grace of God'' bull where was that 15 odd years ago? Again ill ask where were the fans who go around shouting that out?
Most Kerry league games have 3/400 people at them, in fact a lot of Kerry league games have bigger crowds then championship games so that out an end to that theory. Same cant be said for the ''die hard'' Rugby fans
If you think that sums up rugby you havent a clue.
Well if you think that's a bandwagon then most GAA fans are bandwagoners. The biggest intercounty competition in terms of games is the league yet everything is about the championship. Fans don't turn out in real force for the league and regularly you hear of fans/players/management saying its only the league and the championship is all that matters. Fans don't turn up for the league yet are out in force for championship. That is also bangwagonning.
What Kerry league games have more in attendance than championship?


24/03/2013 13:55:12
MesAmis
Is this another step in us 'maturing as a nation?'
Or did we mature as a nation when the Rugger goys didn't boo God Save the Queen in Croker?
No it wouldn't be about maturing as a nation it would be about everyone benefiting from a simple and wise decision.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 24/03/2013 14:49:59    1355114

Well for those pandering their biased views as a concern for the gaa,
id propose this, 1 money made from the use of stadia be diverted not only to stadium use but also to help the outpouring of footballers /hurlers., not to rugby or soccer but to unemployment, mayo sligo leitrims and many many more aren't suffering because of the emergence of connaught rugby its more to do with these players not been looked after, in particular since the gpa got into bed with the gaa, no more ruffling feathers.
Allow them to use this money to create jobs at club or county grounds for players who are facing having to leave.
That is just one thing that could be done,
and i don't know what type of rugby player fan is around kildare or Dublin but those around meath and Westmeath are not that bemoaning, actually id say exact opposite they are extremely envious of football and the gaa as a whole.
Time to knock that chip off some of your shoulders, stop with the inferiority complex, to be honest the most vicious attacks from people are those within the gaa themselves, grab all association, never look after players, paying managers, its all politics and on and on, add to that the absolute hatred from majority of "hurling men " towards football is astounding.
We don't need to look at other associations to find venom towards the gaa, we have plenty within it

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 24/03/2013 15:41:04    1355150

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 4120


Why wouldn't they? No reason why IRB wouldn't go for it. What reasons do you think would stop IRB deciding to have a single nation host a world cup.



i don't think they would stop ireland hosting it, but think they would prefer the 3-country bid if offered the two options. reasons for this are:
bigger cities
bigger stadia
promotion of the game across a wider area
more suitable off-field facilities - this is the reason England are using mainly soccer stadia and only Kingsholm, Twickenham and the Millennium (although thats the welsh issue again)

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5244 - 24/03/2013 18:41:32    1355180

mod
County: Mayo
Posts: 556

1354723
Very short sighted decision. It makes absolutely no sense. What next Dunnes Stores giving Tesco a dig out for "the good of the country" ? Lazy but predictable cliche from ashure. A foretaste of the media take on this ridiculous decision.

------

Haha, not only is it a cliche, but its a fact.

ahsure. (Galway) - Posts: 1666 - 24/03/2013 18:57:21    1355209

24/03/2013 18:41:32
cavanman47
i don't think they would stop ireland hosting it, but think they would prefer the 3-country bid if offered the two options. reasons for this are:
bigger cities
bigger stadia
promotion of the game across a wider area
more suitable off-field facilities - this is the reason England are using mainly soccer stadia and only Kingsholm, Twickenham and the Millennium (although thats the welsh issue again)
Don't see any reason why theyd prefer 3 countries over 1. That's been done before. 99 world cup was hosted by Wales but games were played in Ireland, France, Soctland
Why should we work with other countries when we can do it ourselves.
Rugby already well promoted in wales etc. Doesn't need much more help
The reason England is mainly using soccer stadiums is capacity not more suitable off field facilities. Off field facilities in all premiership rugby grounds is more than good enough but the premiership clubs don't all have 35k-40k stadiums.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 24/03/2013 19:07:19    1355226

I think it's a SMART decision. I love hurling, football, AND rugby. If it brings in much needed revenue to Ireland I say it's a great thing. This is a great chance for Ireland to shine in front of an international scene. I don't see the "downside" of this.

WoodlawnPat (Galway) - Posts: 288 - 24/03/2013 19:14:14    1355232

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 412377

Spare me the lecture on how great this is for little ol Ireland etc etc. Its being turned into a a sort of "Rugby Gathering". If thats the basis for bringing it here well good luck because your going to need it.

Basically lets be straight the IRFU couldn't give a monkeys curse for the GAA and I believe its more than reciprocated. For many reasons this is so (you clearly can't understand that and I would admit I have no interest in understanding or liking Rugby). This mutual dislike will remain so, never the twain shall meet. The only thing to discuss here is how much we are going to get for as little effort as is possible. No we won't be moving the All-Ireland finals or renovating stadiums from our own funds forget that. So forget too all the grandiose maturing as a nation lark, do it for Ireland rubbish, lets just call a spade a spade all we want is money a shed load of it. We'll put up with the rest.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4953 - 24/03/2013 20:37:30    1355407

I wonder when rugby might do something for little ole Ireland? I note Brian OD held his testimonial over in London, did the organisers not think the Irish hotels could use the business especially in this recession?

mod (Mayo) - Posts: 859 - 25/03/2013 16:24:44    1356085