mikeyjoe
County: USA
Posts: 219

1344578
The GAA needs to promote Gaelic Football and Hurling and not rely on rugby for revenue. These are two interesting and entertaining sports. They are largely unknown outside of Ireland. If the GAA wants to promote Croke Park, increase tourism, and generate some revenue they already have the product on the field. They just need to increase awareness of football and hurling amongst tourisists and there will be more attendance, then more revenue.

Whilst I am in favour of the GAA opening their stadiums to a bid for the RWC, this point I strongly agree with!

Why the hell are our games not promoted more to tourists?! So many sports fans are fans of a whole range of sports not just their no.1 favourite sport. When I was in the states I made it my business to get to a baseball game as I love sports, and this was a unique one that I wouldn't be able to attend in most other countries. I would have tried to get tickets to the other major 3 of hockey, football or basketball but they were out of season at the time.

I was at the Dublin Mayo AI semi last year and did note a few Americans in and around the stadium as it was the day after the Navy-Notre Dame game in the Aviva. Given that so few of the games bar the ones in late August and September are sell outs there should be a big push to sell tickets in the tourist offices through ticketmaster.

Any foreigner I've brought to a game in Croker be it football or hurling has been impressed (except my brother's girlfriend who thought she was going to a soccer game and was highly confused when the ref threw the ball in!)

iluvspuds (Longford) - Posts: 160 - 07/03/2013 12:52:54    1344687

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 3374

1344665 The championship is the only GAA event that will get coverage as its the only one anyone cares about - have a listen to the Longford u21 managers interview after the match last night. Fairly honest in saying that all other comps are merely preparation for the championship. And with a rugby World Cup even the championship will get no media coverage!

I like your idea but it is completely unworkable and unethical

What exactly did he say.Bear in mind that almost every GAA manager has a policy of playing down victories in order to take the pressure off his players so I wouldnt read anything into GAA managers post match comments regarding how importanant a win is.The number one focus of that Longford u-21 management would be to do well in the u-21 championship.The league gets consistently good attendances in the GAA and it is an important competition which should get better coverage from the media.

If this Rugby world Cup bid happerns with a large amount fo cooperation from the GAA the GAA should demand huge money from the IRFU for use of GAA stadia.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 07/03/2013 13:39:42    1344716

uaibhfhaili1986 - the Longford manager basically was talking with regards to the Hastings Cup, a pre season u-21 competition played between counties in the midlands and northwest every year. Longford beat Cavan in the final this year. McCormack was saying that whilst that was a good competition to win the whole focus since they started training was on the championship opener against Dublin last night and that their game plan came off to a tee.

iluvspuds (Longford) - Posts: 160 - 07/03/2013 13:58:30    1344730

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 3936

Of course it will. Thousands of people would be in Ireland that otherwise would not. Many would be staying for a few weeks or on several weekends. Theyd be spending money in pubs, restuarants, hotels, bnbs across the country as well as shops etc. That is a very big economic benefit to the country.
Dont see how you could think that a tournament being held in Ireland wouldnt give any economic boost.

And thousands of people who might've come won't come because of the rugby World Cup.

Most people who do come will just be what is known as 'time switchers' i.e. people who would've come to Ireland in anyways at some point but will now choose to come when the Rugby World Cup is on.

The actual number of 'new' visitors is easily offset by the ones who will not travel because there is a major sporting event on. A lot of studies done, particularly during the World Cup in Germany confirmed this.

Stefan Symanski, sports economists, has done some interesting studies into it.

There are lots of reasons to want to host a major sporting event, however an economic boost is not one of them.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13803 - 07/03/2013 13:59:36    1344733

07/03/2013 13:59:36
MesAmis
County: Dublin
And thousands of people who might've come won't come because of the rugby World Cup.
Most people who do come will just be what is known as 'time switchers' i.e. people who would've come to Ireland in anyways at some point but will now choose to come when the Rugby World Cup is on.
The actual number of 'new' visitors is easily offset by the ones who will not travel because there is a major sporting event on. A lot of studies done, particularly during the World Cup in Germany confirmed this.
Stefan Symanski, sports economists, has done some interesting studies into it.
There are lots of reasons to want to host a major sporting event, however an economic boost is not one of them.
No most of the people would not be "time switchers". Would most of the irish people who went to the last rugby world cup or the european championships in poland have went to those countries at some point but chose to go to when those events were going on.
The number of "new visitors" is not offset by the numbers who will not travel.
Economic reasons explained very well by mike weed iirc in his book on sport and tourism who wrote that sport and tourism are very well linked and that sporting events increase tourism pre and post events. Take the London Olympics as a great example of that.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 07/03/2013 14:48:55    1344772

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 3937

No most of the people would not be "time switchers". Would most of the irish people who went to the last rugby world cup or the european championships in poland have went to those countries at some point but chose to go to when those events were going on.
The number of "new visitors" is not offset by the numbers who will not travel.
Economic reasons explained very well by mike weed iirc in his book on sport and tourism who wrote that sport and tourism are very well linked and that sporting events increase tourism pre and post events. Take the London Olympics as a great example of that.

It must be great knowing everything. I love the way you know everything for definite.

There are different schools of thought out there, not just yours OrmOnd.

I've yet to see any figures that suggest that tourism has been boosted by the London Games. You cannot look to see for a few years following the event in anyways. It's way to early to tell for London, or indeed Poland. You look at it, objectively, and not just for the year in question. You must use, for example, a five year period and see if tourism as a whole increases in those 5 years as opposed to the 5 years previously. Usually it does not.

Symanski and Kuper explain it very well in their book Soccernomics (?)

This isn't to say that I'm opposed to the Rugby World Cup being staged in Ireland if it is feasible to do so. I just do not want it used by politicians to lie to us about how much money the country will make from it when in reality the country will make little or no money from the event.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13803 - 07/03/2013 15:13:36    1344795

The truth is that the IRFU will not be in a position anytime in the near future to hold a major event like the Rugby World cup on their own merits.
For the IRFU to host such an event, they would clearly need the use of GAA stadiums and thus need financial assistance to upgrade those Stadiums.

Out of Irelands current top 25 Stadiums in terms of Capacity, only 3 are regarded as Rugby Stadiums ( Aviva, RDS and Thomond Park ) and of which only 1 of those grounds make it into the Ireland's top 13 or 14 Stadiums list in terms of Capacity.

The funding is currently not available to upgrade a host of Stadiums from the government, as the Republic of Ireland is essentially broke.
I suspect that the British goverment support the bid, as they have freed up cash to upgrade 3 Stadiums ( Casement Park, Ravenhill and Windsor Park ) in Belfast City.
Will the IRFU be in a position to fund any of the Stadium upgrades? And if so, what percentage of the total event staging cost will they put forward?
My feeling is that the IRFU will be looking for Lotto funding, EU grants and Irish government funding to make up approx 80% or 90% of the event cost.
I think the bid may fall short as the government don't have the cash, and the Lotto is already funding vast amounts of Sports projects anyhow.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 07/03/2013 16:02:01    1344838

ormondbannerman

gaelic grounds holds double thomand parks capacity and is situated on the ennis road far better access to the m7 motorway and a straight road into limerick city centre 2mins drive away and only a short walk to hotels like the strand hotel or the greenhills hotel,its the logical thing to do instead of using a stadiium half the size and in a dangerous area for toursists.the only thing thomand has going over gaelic grounds is that its a rugby stadium.

how is a world cup here totaly differant to the last one thats b.s. talk you can only compare to the previous one not to one that has not taken place yet!!!!

surely the gaa have alot to baragin with here as its worth alot to the media in this country and its all down to the gaa allowing this to go ahead.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 07/03/2013 17:23:52    1344901

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 3374

1344665
The championship is the only GAA event that will get coverage as its the only one anyone cares about - have a listen to the Longford u21 managers interview after the match last night. Fairly honest in saying that all other comps are merely preparation for the championship. And with a rugby World Cup even the championship will get no media coverage!

I like your idea but it is completely unworkable and unethical

its the only one that gets good coverage but not the only one anybody cares about just look at the crowds at the league games they dwarf the other sorting assocations in this countrys crowds.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 07/03/2013 17:25:32    1344902

07/03/2013 17:23:52
hill16no1man
ormondbannerman, gaelic grounds holds double thomand parks capacity and is situated on the ennis road far better access to the m7 motorway and a straight road into limerick city centre 2mins drive away and only a short walk to hotels like the strand hotel or the greenhills hotel,its the logical thing to do instead of using a stadiium half the size and in a dangerous area for toursists.the only thing thomand has going over gaelic grounds is that its a rugby stadium.
how is a world cup here totaly differant to the last one thats b.s. talk you can only compare to the previous one not to one that has not taken place yet!!!!
surely the gaa have alot to baragin with here as its worth alot to the media in this country and its all down to the gaa allowing this to go ahead.
A rugby world cup held in Ireland would be completely different to one held in New Zealand as the number of visitors for games would be so much higher. Games involving all the big nations would be higher than the last world cup considering the location of ireland and its proximity to the big populations of france, england.
Gaelic Grounds may be bigger but the stadium isnt better. Thomond is only a short walk from the strand and greenhills hotel and moyross is not dangerous. when was the last time you heard of fans going to games in thomond getting into trouble in moyross/thomondgate, farranshone, the island. when??

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 07/03/2013 17:51:12    1344918

Stadiums
Rugby - Aviva, RDS, Thomond, Ravenhill, Musgrave Park
GAA - Croke Park , Pearce Stadium, Semple Stadium, Killarney, Nowlan Park
Possibly Casement Park and McHale Park

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 07/03/2013 19:37:01    1344995

I'd love to see the RWC in Ireland, it would be monumental for a country of our size to host such a massive event, but the bid would rest pretty much solely on the GAA agreeing to open up their stadiums. The GAA has a hell of a lot of bargaining power here aswell, they could use this as an opportunity to drastically improve the standard of their stadiums before the RWC with a little help from the tax payer and the government would take in a bomb from ripping off all the tourists, so everybody's a winner :-)

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 07/03/2013 20:21:11    1345022

07/03/2013 19:37:01
bad.monkey
Stadiums
Rugby - Aviva, RDS, Thomond, Ravenhill, Musgrave Park
GAA - Croke Park , Pearse Stadium, Semple Stadium, Killarney, Nowlan Park
Possibly Casement Park and McHale Park
So that would be
51700, 18500(with plans for development to 23000), 26500, 12300(with development to 18000 already underway), 9250
82300, 26197, 53500, 43180, 30000, 32000, 42000
Major issues are issues with some venues like thurles, no hotels etc

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 07/03/2013 20:22:24    1345025

Still no bandwagon for Ballybofey?

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 08/03/2013 09:06:41    1345131

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 3943

A rugby world cup held in Ireland would be completely different to one held in New Zealand as the number of visitors for games would be so much higher. Games involving all the big nations would be higher than the last world cup considering the location of ireland and its proximity to the big populations of france, england.
Gaelic Grounds may be bigger but the stadium isnt better. Thomond is only a short walk from the strand and greenhills hotel and moyross is not dangerous. when was the last time you heard of fans going to games in thomond getting into trouble in moyross/thomondgate, farranshone, the island. when??

that means nothing the amount of visitors a world cup is a world cup and you can only judge by the previous cometition not by one that has not taking place yet so i will judge by the new zealand hosting and gaa stadiums are way above what was there,if its good enough for gaa people to stand i dont see why rugby people cant do it,the only diferance will be they will probably have to have heinken sellers everywhere in the ground as seems you can drink in your seats amazing how you cannot turn on a rugby match without seeing people drinking heinken in the stands nowadays.the bigger nations in the competitions are all southern hemisphere countries as realisticly they are the only countries who have a chance of winning the tournament.why is it not better because it does not look like a sculpture?
who cares what a stadium looks like from the outside the fact is the gaelic grounds has two big terraces as thomand has only small terraces and it can accomadate far more people sitting then thomand and thomand is not a direct walk to either of the two named hotels and thats the key for tourists as the gaelic grounds is situated on the same road as both named hotels and has direct access to limerick city centre.haha to say moyross is not dangerous you must be having a laugh i know limerick well so dont try and waffle.the differance is them fans know thomand park and have been before where as international tourists would not be familiar with thomand park being situated in a dangerous area and as tourists do they would venture in to have a look.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 08/03/2013 09:53:35    1345157

musgrave park how is this ground even being mentioned surely if thurles is not up to scratch for the rugby crowds then musgrave park must be in no shape to host anything

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 08/03/2013 09:55:26    1345158

Will lotto funding dry up? Isn't the government planning to privatise the lotto?

AnRaibh (Donegal) - Posts: 134 - 08/03/2013 10:36:32    1345197

08/03/2013 09:53:35
hill16no1man
that means nothing the amount of visitors a world cup is a world cup and you can only judge by the previous cometition not by one that has not taking place yet so i will judge by the new zealand hosting and gaa stadiums are way above what was there,if its good enough for gaa people to stand i dont see why rugby people cant do it,the only diferance will be they will probably have to have heinken sellers everywhere in the ground as seems you can drink in your seats amazing how you cannot turn on a rugby match without seeing people drinking heinken in the stands nowadays.the bigger nations in the competitions are all southern hemisphere countries as realisticly they are the only countries who have a chance of winning the tournament.why is it not better because it does not look like a sculpture?
who cares what a stadium looks like from the outside the fact is the gaelic grounds has two big terraces as thomand has only small terraces and it can accomadate far more people sitting then thomand and thomand is not a direct walk to either of the two named hotels and thats the key for tourists as the gaelic grounds is situated on the same road as both named hotels and has direct access to limerick city centre.haha to say moyross is not dangerous you must be having a laugh i know limerick well so dont try and waffle.the differance is them fans know thomand park and have been before where as international tourists would not be familiar with thomand park being situated in a dangerous area and as tourists do they would venture in to have a look.
Its Thomond. No A in the name.
Thurles has feck all accomodation. Say Thurles is used and England play Argentina there, where are the 50000 english and argentinian supporters going to stay after the game. Thurles is grand for games in munster championship and qualifiers where everyone goes home the day of the game but that would not be the case with world cup games.
As ive said already New Zealand is a totally different prospect. Thousand of miles from all countries. Even Australia is nearly 1000 miles from New Zealand.
The Strand is very very close to Thomond. Go out front door of hotel on Ennis road walk down shelbourne road and you are there.
Moyross isnt that dangerous. I played u21 rugby with Thomond a few seasons ago and the majority of their players are from Moyross and even they say its not dangerous anymore. It was a few years ago but not anymore.

08/03/2013 09:55:26
hill16no1man
musgrave park how is this ground even being mentioned surely if thurles is not up to scratch for the rugby crowds then musgrave park must be in no shape to host anything
It is a rugby owned ground and with small amount of work could be developed to be used for small grounds. Issue with Thurles is hotels and the town etc not the ground

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 08/03/2013 11:32:28    1345250

iluvspuds
County: Longford
Posts: 86

Whilst I am in favour of the GAA opening their stadiums to a bid for the RWC, this point I strongly agree with!

Why the hell are our games not promoted more to tourists?! So many sports fans are fans of a whole range of sports not just their no.1 favourite sport. When I was in the states I made it my business to get to a baseball game as I love sports, and this was a unique one that I wouldn't be able to attend in most other countries. I would have tried to get tickets to the other major 3 of hockey, football or basketball but they were out of season at the time.

I was at the Dublin Mayo AI semi last year and did note a few Americans in and around the stadium as it was the day after the Navy-Notre Dame game in the Aviva. Given that so few of the games bar the ones in late August and September are sell outs there should be a big push to sell tickets in the tourist offices through ticketmaster.

Any foreigner I've brought to a game in Croker be it football or hurling has been impressed (except my brother's girlfriend who thought she was going to a soccer game and was highly confused when the ref threw the ball in!)

---

I know what you mean when she was confused, b/c that happens too when I bring people to Gaelic Park in the Bronx for the first time. Confused and they start asking alot of questions. But then they get interested and enjoy the match. :-)

If the RWC is held in Ireland there will be alot advertising and promoting the event which is logical. They would want to max out the media hype and make it as popular as possible for their sport and their fans to get the most attention and attendance.

But the majority of people who have been to Ireland; Irish, Americans to travel and visit relatives or take a bus tour, have never been to a GAA match.

mikeyjoe (USA) - Posts: 415 - 08/03/2013 12:02:20    1345279

ormondbannerman

sure you are hardly going to get that 50 thousand into the ground in musgrave park are you at least with thurles they have the capacity and what harm to them supporters to stay in nearby towns or villages like alot of people do when they come to places outside of a city.for tourists the gaelic grounds is far better suited as you just said you have to go down differant roads where as the gaelic grounds would be ideal with it all on the one road far bigger capacity and a shopping centre right across the road from the ground.hahahaha well you hardly expect moyross people to slate their own area now do you?
i have been in there and i know people from just down from it and they certainly would tell you that nothing has changed just the papers have no interest in the place anymore and that they are given the best of facilites in moyross and have no respect for it by destroying them,alod of tourists strolling into the wrong arts would be like take candy from a baby.
come off it musgrave park is in bad shape and would be pointless doing it up as munster lay there when they know they wont get a crowd in THOMOND!!!!!(happy)

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 08/03/2013 12:35:27    1345309