Beelzedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 234

Seriously man... how far do you want GAA testing to go?

Should it over take Athletics?

I mean what was Athletics at again in this country... a sport known for doping. 130 odd tests wasnt it...?

I think your request for more GAA players to be tested is completely misguided.

Professional athletes have far more to gain from doping and they also have the most to lose.. but hey when has that ever stopped them????

It's not necessarily about how far I want testing on GAA players to go, it's about the GPA wanting to be recognised by governing bodies, and players availing of grants, to do so they must fall under the same testing standards as top level athletes in other sports.

I don't know how many individual athletes the testing in athletics or cycling accounted for, but per head of playing population I'd wager it's certainly higher than that of the GAA.

Maybe instead of testing the GAA players more, we should test the rugby players less. Less than three tests per year per rugby team would be on a par with GAA teams, would that be any fairer for you?

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 15/02/2013 15:32:03    1334554

It's not necessarily about how far I want testing on GAA players to go, it's about the GPA wanting to be recognised by governing bodies, and players availing of grants, to do so they must fall under the same testing standards as top level athletes in other sports
____________

That's exactly what has happened.

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 15/02/2013 15:40:09    1334564

Maybe instead of testing the GAA players more, we should test the rugby players less. Less than three tests per year per rugby team would be on a par with GAA teams, would that be any fairer for you?
________

Does club rugby not count in this?

If not then I'd be in favour of your suggestion.

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 15/02/2013 15:42:11    1334565

Jack_Goff
County: Meath
Posts: 14

why should the government give athletics all the basic facilities it wants? Should it also spend millions on ther sports such as snooker, darts, ice hockey, cricket?

no the GAA is the most popular organisation in the country so it should get the most money for grants, facilities etc.

In fact it should get more. Creating 200 million for the economy every year, I believe every GAA inter county player should be paid 2,000 a year and not a measly
400.

Do you think the British government should throw all it's funding for sport into the Premier League, should they cut funds for minority sports and groups simply on the basis that football is the biggest sport in the UK and the Premiership creates more money for their economy than any other sport?

Different debate but the exact same point.

The government, in an ideal sport would do all it can to promote a variety of sport. Unfortunately some sports are much less recognised than others, have higher cost basis and less money to spend on infrastructure and facilities. I'd have no problem with associations like Atheltics Ireland, Tennis Ireland and Cricket Ireland receiving grants ahead of the GAA, those sports simply need it more and could probably do a lot more with a small bit of funding than the GAA could.

It doesn't have to give athletics all the facilities it wants, but it should at least help to get the basics in place.

I'm not going to bring darts into it because quite simply I don't recognise it as a sport. Ice hockey, while certainly a sport, is one that will simply never flourish in Ireland due to our lack of ice hockey rinks. Never mind those temporary ones around the place at Christmas, if the Irish Ice Hockey Association made a detailed application for funding, along with a clear plan of what they wanted to, ie develop more facilities then yes I think they'd be deserving of funding.

If all the funding for sport goes to the biggest and richest sports then all you're going to do is increase the divide.

We may as well disband all minority sport organisations in the country if that's the approach to funding people want to see in future.

Maybe I'm just being a bit too socialist in my thinking about all this.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 15/02/2013 15:42:49    1334566

Gerry is probably best mates with Ryle Nugent out in Montrose?

keepherlow (Tyrone) - Posts: 127 - 15/02/2013 15:44:50    1334567

keepherlow
County: Tyrone
Posts: 94

1334567
Gerry is probably best mates with Ryle Nugent out in Montrose?

hahaha like this one

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 15/02/2013 15:47:57    1334570

if_in_doubt
County: Kildare
Posts: 1634

1334482
One of the problems a good few people involved in athletics have is that when they look at the GAA they often question what the second A stands for. Some of them are rightly or wrongly a bit annoyed that the association does nothing to promote athletics, then again though why should it?

The GAA (including all codes and the LGFA) is the biggest sporting body in the country, and the one with the most financial and structural resources. So on one level you can see where he is coming from, if an association already has all this at hand, then why should it receive grants that could instead go to promoting sports that need it more?

Look at the state of the Morton Stadium in Santry, and it's supposed to be a national stadium. The only other high level athletics facility in the capital is the Irishtown stadium out in Ringsend and look at how long it took to get the indoor centre in Athlone up and running. It's fair to argue the government should be helping get basic facilities up to scratch isn't it?

Yeah there's a good chance these comments are borne out of jealousy, but at the same time the point he's probably trying to make is a fair one, if big organisations like the GAA, FAI and IRFU are able to build up such levels of financial and practical resources, then isn't it fair that the money the government spends on sports is funnelled into the less financially strong sports and associations?

Again though an argument like that would become a bit of a mass participation v elite level and developmental stages debate.

you cannot penalise a sports body for making the right decisions and being popular and using their income correctly and thus reduce the income you give them,what kind of message does that send out to all sporting bodies.the governement are lredy doing what you suggest in regard hospitals only last week they reduced grants to a hospital like st james's becuase it was keeping its books in order and instead gave their money to other hospitals who were running their budgets badly,that to me sends out the wrong message to people.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 15/02/2013 15:52:30    1334578

Beelzedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 237

That's exactly what has happened.

That's exactly why they are being tested so. And the sheer volume of intercounty players and GAA matches in comparison to professional rugby players and matches means that more tests are going to be carried out on GAA players, law of averages and all that.

Beelzedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 237

Does club rugby not count in this?

If not then I'd be in favour of your suggestion.

Do club rugby players receive government grants? If they do and fall under the jurisdiction of the ISC then yes they should be subject to the same testing levels.

As far as I know though they don't.

Put it this way, at least one player per team is tested after a rugby match, that means a player has a 1 in 26/30 chance of being tested every match. As far as the GAA figure goes there's only a 1 in 30 chance of a player being tested at all in a given year.

At the end of the day there's more GAA players than rugby players, cyclists and top level athletes. It's only natural that there is more tests. And remember this isn't individual players being tested more, it's the sport as a whole being tested.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 15/02/2013 15:55:05    1334581

The GAA provides more for Ireland than any other sport:

1. Look at the social capital it provides from the urban to the rural areas, from health, social inclusion, education, entertainment and community well-being,
2. The boost to the economy which has never really being analysised properly, from crowds going to games - purchasing food, fuel, accomodation, etc
3. The maufacture of hurleys, jerseys and the construction of pitches, clubhoses etc
4. Tourism
5. Promoting our native language

Yes I'm not overly in favour of the grant - but it was Fianna Fail who wanted it, not the GAA -........

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1688 - 15/02/2013 15:59:45    1334583

Beelzedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 237

If you want more GAA players to be tested then fair enough... but we're not that far behind Athletics in this country and for GAA players to become the most tested sports person in this country is pure comedy gold in my eyes.

So if the sport with the most players and matches became the most tested sport then that would be comedy gold?

Surely not testing the biggest sport the most would be the bigger joke?

Not that far behind athletics? We're much, much further behind athletics than we are ahead of rugby that's for sure.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 15/02/2013 16:03:28    1334584

hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 3700

you cannot penalise a sports body for making the right decisions and being popular and using their income correctly and thus reduce the income you give them,what kind of message does that send out to all sporting bodies.the governement are lredy doing what you suggest in regard hospitals only last week they reduced grants to a hospital like st james's becuase it was keeping its books in order and instead gave their money to other hospitals who were running their budgets badly,that to me sends out the wrong message to people.

I'm not saying we should penalise well run sports, and financially and structurally strong sports.

But if money is going to be given to sports maybe it should be given to those that need it most and can do the most with it.

The GAA will still go strong if it receives less from the government, and the money could make the world of difference to minority sports or paralympic / Special Olympic groups.

If you keep giving the money to the biggest and most popular sports then nobody else will ever have a chance.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 15/02/2013 16:10:25    1334588

if_in_doubt
County: Kildare
Posts: 1636

1334581 Beelzedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 237

That's exactly what has happened.

That's exactly why they are being tested so. And the sheer volume of intercounty players and GAA matches in comparison to professional rugby players and matches means that more tests are going to be carried out on GAA players, law of averages and all that.

Beelzedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 237

Does club rugby not count in this?

If not then I'd be in favour of your suggestion.

Do club rugby players receive government grants? If they do and fall under the jurisdiction of the ISC then yes they should be subject to the same testing levels.

As far as I know though they don't.

Put it this way, at least one player per team is tested after a rugby match, that means a player has a 1 in 26/30 chance of being tested every match. As far as the GAA figure goes there's only a 1 in 30 chance of a player being tested at all in a given year.

At the end of the day there's more GAA players than rugby players, cyclists and top level athletes. It's only natural that there is more tests. And remember this isn't individual players being tested more, it's the sport as a whole being tested.

______________

It'll make a joke out of the entire testing process if GAA players on an average of €400 a year... become Irelands most tested sports person.

I think it's good enough that we had the 3rd most tested Athletes in the country even ahead of professional sports where doping has far greater benefits for the individual. Even if it means they have more to lose.

They still do it. Because it's worth it.

Listen maybe you'll get your way... and we'll see the Irish sports council uping the amount of tests on GAA players

A complete waste of time and resources but sure why not...

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 15/02/2013 16:13:47    1334591

GAA players are doing everthing that has been asked of them from the Irish Sports Council.

If thats not good enough for you...

Who cares.

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 15/02/2013 16:15:31    1334592

The GAA has done more for the young people of this country than he or his likes will ever do. Maybe he wasent good enough to make it at football. Only thing he was good at possibly was running the hills of Kerry moaning about everybody else. Maybe David Gillick a good GAA man should have a word in his ear!!!!!!

Brownred (Cavan) - Posts: 229 - 15/02/2013 16:22:43    1334597

Beelzedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 239

It'll make a joke out of the entire testing process if GAA players on an average of €400 a year... become Irelands most tested sports person.

I think it's good enough that we had the 3rd most tested Athletes in the country even ahead of professional sports where doping has far greater benefits for the individual. Even if it means they have more to lose.

They still do it. Because it's worth it.

Listen maybe you'll get your way... and we'll see the Irish sports council uping the amount of tests on GAA players

A complete waste of time and resources but sure why not...

I don't think the monetary reward for competing in a sport should necessarily impact the level of testing carried out. It's one of the principles of being a top level athlete you could argue.

I think it's great that GAA players are tested more than other sports, to be honest I thought it would have been by a much greater amount considering the playing population in comparison to rugby, cycling and athletics.

There probably won't be an increase in testing levels until, or if ever a test comes back positive anyways.

Beelzedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 239

GAA players are doing everthing that has been asked of them from the Irish Sports Council.

If thats not good enough for you...

Who cares.

Of course what the GAA players are doing is good enough for me.

It's some of the things the ISC are doing that I might be inclined to question.

As GAA players are now training and playing pretty much year round as opposed to other sports which would have an off season, maybe testing could instead be done year round, and not by increasing the number of tests but instead by not testing so many players straight after a match.

I've never said anything about any of this not being good enough for me, just though the ratio of tests was out of sync between two different sports.

If some people feel GAA players should be immune from testing, or should be tested less frequently then fair enough, that's up to them. Personally though I don't see why it can't be on the same ratio as other team sports.

If that doesn't explain things a bit more clearly to you...

Who cares.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 15/02/2013 16:36:59    1334605

Testing pre-dated the Players Grants.

It was brought in long before that and applies to any sport in receipt of Sports Council Funding.

I know Ladies Fottballers do not get grants but have been subject to testing for years ( though not very frequent).

Of course players, such as All Ireland League and Senior Schools Rugby players, should just like GAA, LF & Camogie players, be tested.

I read a Tony Ward article last year on Schools Rugby which would have me worried if I was the parent od a Senior Schools player.

The big problem I have with the testing is that who are the testers. Unqualified "officials" from some other sport brought in on the day, be it in the name of the Sports Council or not, should not be allowed.
Testing should only be done by Doctors and if it were then it could be blood and you would not have the massive delays like that which spoiled the All Ireland celebrations in Croke Park for a Dublin player ( and probably plenty others).

KELF (Kildare) - Posts: 775 - 15/02/2013 16:51:30    1334617

15/02/2013 15:11:37
Westmayo
County: Mayo
Posts: 216

1334532 What time was it on last night must listen back to what he said

Around 8.15 ish ?

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 15/02/2013 16:57:26    1334620

KELF
County: Kildare
Posts: 611

1334617
Testing pre-dated the Players Grants.

It was brought in long before that and applies to any sport in receipt of Sports Council Funding.

I know Ladies Fottballers do not get grants but have been subject to testing for years ( though not very frequent).

Of course players, such as All Ireland League and Senior Schools Rugby players, should just like GAA, LF & Camogie players, be tested.

I read a Tony Ward article last year on Schools Rugby which would have me worried if I was the parent od a Senior Schools player.

The big problem I have with the testing is that who are the testers. Unqualified "officials" from some other sport brought in on the day, be it in the name of the Sports Council or not, should not be allowed.
Testing should only be done by Doctors and if it were then it could be blood and you would not have the massive delays like that which spoiled the All Ireland celebrations in Croke Park for a Dublin player ( and probably plenty others)



Yeah those lads take supplements and protein blends without really knowing what's in them or what they do. I met one fella who was talking about creatine- he didn't know what creatine was, what time of exercise it fuels. Should 18 and 19 yo athlete's be taking protein, creatine etc? It's a debate for sports scientists and medical people with a sports background. Should any athlete be taking supplements when they don't understand what it does, what it contains, what the active ingredients are, what the side affects are and why they are taking it? No, that's a no brainer.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 15/02/2013 17:06:00    1334624

Sports Council Funding of the 3 major sporting bodies
2011 2012
Football Association of Ireland 3,352,000 2,990,000
Gaelic Athletic Association 2,970,000 2,700,000
Irish Rugby Football Union 2,911,000 2,610,000

Seems Kiernan should direct his ire elsewhere.
The GAA is doing very poorly in comparision to rugby.
It has much bigger match attendance much greater playing numbers but getting pretty much the same grant.
Furthermore the govt grant for rebuild of Aviva was also much greater than amount given to rebuild Croke Park.
Rugby is also doing well out of TV coverage deal for Heino and 6 Nat, a funding option not open to GAA. Coupled with that is the very favourable tax legislation for professional athletes would suggest that political clout clearly resides with IRFU.

mod (Mayo) - Posts: 859 - 15/02/2013 17:07:23    1334625

don't think the monetary reward for competing in a sport should necessarily impact the level of testing carried out. It's one of the principles of being a top level athlete you could argue.
__________

Doping and personal financial gain go hand in hand.

= Highly paid professional sports.

We probably have the most tested amateur sport in the world.

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 15/02/2013 17:08:43    1334626