What has Jerry Kiernans rubbish comments got to do with a capitol grant to an overseas county board? The Irish taxpayer should instead invest this money in what? An individuals pipe dream? Have any of you seen Clonliffe Harriers? No thought so. People here are just cherry picking comments and distracting from what he said which is plain wrong. The totality of Jerry Kiernans comment reveal him to hold vile repulsive views on the GAA end off. Others rowing in here are just the usual suspects nothing of substance to add to the argument and skirt of at every opportunity. What Kiernans said is inaccurate and wrong.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4953 - 29/03/2014 14:09:09    1566594

arock
County: Dublin

Actually, thats a fair point. His original comments aren't worthy of the debate we've been having for the last few pages, we're only dignifying the original silliness.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 29/03/2014 16:02:30    1566642

Dear oh dear JayP but that is woefully weak. Celtic, Liverpool and London Irish are all businesses, owned by ruthless business men and so clearly should not receive grants from Irish taxpayers. Is Parkhead a venue where Irish men and women head to each week to participate in Irish arts and culture, socialise, exercise and meet fellow Irish emmigrants in the hope of securing work/accommodation. Are there Irish dancing classes at Anfield stadium each Tuesday? I have no problem with an Irish centre in Glasgow, but as the greatest number of Irish are in London maybe one should be built there first? And Id love you to explain to me how you believe Liverpool FC support Irish emmigrants in that city to the same extent as the GAA support emmigrants in London.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 29/03/2014 21:13:20    1566783

29/03/2014 21:13:20
Soma
Dear oh dear JayP but that is woefully weak. Celtic, Liverpool and London Irish are all businesses, owned by ruthless business men and so clearly should not receive grants from Irish taxpayers. Is Parkhead a venue where Irish men and women head to each week to participate in Irish arts and culture, socialise, exercise and meet fellow Irish emmigrants in the hope of securing work/accommodation. Are there Irish dancing classes at Anfield stadium each Tuesday? I have no problem with an Irish centre in Glasgow, but as the greatest number of Irish are in London maybe one should be built there first? And Id love you to explain to me how you believe Liverpool FC support Irish emmigrants in that city to the same extent as the GAA support emmigrants in London. "ruthless business men" har har har
London Irish RFC amateur not professional is a venue where irish men and women head each week to socialise, exercise and meet fellow irish emigrants in the hope of securing work etc

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 30/03/2014 19:31:39    1567244

Indeed, ruthless businessmen Ormond. Unless you think Dermot Desmond and John Henry are some sort of benevolent benefactors, dedicating there time to look after the needs of Irish emigrants? Or indeed David Fitzgerald as Executive Chairman at London Irish, who makes statements like "we will do whats right for the business" and "decisions must make sense from a business point of view". Do you think all these men invest just to cater for the Irish abroad? You have a very innocent view of the world if so.
Regarding London Irish amateurs, do you believe anywhere near the same number of emigrants participate there each week as they do at Ruislip. If you do I would say you have little knowledge of the London sporting community. Having said that, if they could show that any money sent there way would be used solely for the amateur club then I would have no problem with them receiving a small donation, though obviously Sunbury plays nowhere near as important a role in Irish culture and emigrant support as Ruislip does.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 30/03/2014 20:29:19    1567298

ormond are you sure about that comment regarding london irish. if you are referring to the london irish team that are in the aviva premiership , then they are of course professional how many irish or london irish play for them now I wonder. perhaps you very referring to the amateur wing of the club who still play at sunbury. anyway they are owned bymthe parent club .

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5520 - 30/03/2014 20:38:56    1567308

30/03/2014 20:29:19 Soma
Indeed, ruthless businessmen Ormond. Unless you think Dermot Desmond and John Henry are some sort of benevolent benefactors, dedicating there time to look after the needs of Irish emigrants? Or indeed David Fitzgerald as Executive Chairman at London Irish, who makes statements like "we will do whats right for the business" and "decisions must make sense from a business point of view". Do you think all these men invest just to cater for the Irish abroad? You have a very innocent view of the world if so.
Regarding London Irish amateurs, do you believe anywhere near the same number of emigrants participate there each week as they do at Ruislip. If you do I would say you have little knowledge of the London sporting community. Having said that, if they could show that any money sent there way would be used solely for the amateur club then I would have no problem with them receiving a small donation, though obviously Sunbury plays nowhere near as important a role in Irish culture and emigrant support as Ruislip does.The amateur club of London Irish which is still based in Sunbury, London Irish spiritual home, very much caters for the irish abroad.
yet again you insult me. I don't have an innocent view of the world and as a former London resident I resent some of what you say very much.
Yes I do believe London Irish amatuers do have a significant number of emigrants playing week in week out. Not the same number as in Ruislip but a significant number none the less especially considering a rugby player/coach can go to any number of rugby clubs compared to the limited number of gaa clubs in dondon.
The amateur club is separate to the pro club so if money was designated for LIARFC it would go to them and not to LIRFC
30/03/2014 20:38:56
s goldrick
ormond are you sure about that comment regarding london irish. if you are referring to the london irish team that are in the aviva premiership , then they are of course professional how many irish or london irish play for them now I wonder. perhaps you very referring to the amateur wing of the club who still play at sunbury. anyway they are owned bymthe parent club . sure about what comment?
the amateur club has a totally separate legal identity to the pro club and I was referring to the amateur club
There is a significant number of irish with huge involvement in the amateur club and many never really got involved in the pro club.
London irish amateur rfc receives money from irish government emigrant support programme.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 31/03/2014 21:54:04    1568289

Ormond,
Not sure when you were a resident in London but things have changed at London Irish amateurs in the past few years. They no longer have any female teams as far as I know, and they are also moving away from their spiritual home so debts can be cleared and they can have a more modern facility. Hopefully that move goes well for them but it would be hard to justify the Irish government giving any money to the development of the Hazelwood site considering it is being built by a business with a poor financial history. There is no comparison with Ruislip at all really as the participation numbers or so vastly different, it only caters for 1 gender, it is being led by business men who correctly prioritise the interests of the professional team and of the business itself, and it doesn't really seek to promote Irish arts and culture.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 01/04/2014 17:40:14    1568729

01/04/2014 17:40:14 Soma
Ormond,
Not sure when you were a resident in London but things have changed at London Irish amateurs in the past few years. They no longer have any female teams as far as I know, and they are also moving away from their spiritual home so debts can be cleared and they can have a more modern facility. Hopefully that move goes well for them but it would be hard to justify the Irish government giving any money to the development of the Hazelwood site considering it is being built by a business with a poor financial history. There is no comparison with Ruislip at all really as the participation numbers or so vastly different, it only caters for 1 gender, it is being led by business men who correctly prioritise the interests of the professional team and of the business itself, and it doesn't really seek to promote Irish arts and culture. Been a while since ive been a London resident.
What poor financial history. London irish amatuer and professional are totally different financial entities so they are not led by people with interests of pro side first

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 01/04/2014 19:15:58    1568809

The development of Hazelwood is being undertaken by the pro club, who are business and therefore ultimately profit led, but the amateurs will be allowed to use it. Obviously the amateur club would not be undertaking a £6 million investment for 4 adult mens amateur club teams, and a few boys teams. Therefore it would make no sense to send any tax payer grants that way as there would be no obvious return. Its not comparable to Ruislip in any way.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 01/04/2014 19:31:35    1568820

01/04/2014 19:31:35
Soma
The development of Hazelwood is being undertaken by the pro club, who are business and therefore ultimately profit led, but the amateurs will be allowed to use it. Obviously the amateur club would not be undertaking a £6 million investment for 4 adult mens amateur club teams, and a few boys teams. Therefore it would make no sense to send any tax payer grants that way as there would be no obvious return. Its not comparable to Ruislip in any way. top side in Liarfc are essentially semi pro as they play only 2 leagues below championship... not amateur and ive a mate from NZ(former club mate of mine) playing the division above and he gets a few hundred quid a game to play where he plays and LIARFC would be similar..
They regularly host all manners of irish sides over there as well as host one of the biggest underage rugby competitions around where a huge number of sides compete are irish

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 01/04/2014 21:30:54    1568926

I dont really know what you are saying in that post Ormond, whether you are suggesting that London Irish Amateurs are funding Hazelwood or not, but it is clearly a development being driven and funded by the business men who own London Irish - I dont think anybody doubts that. It is a pity that the Amateurs have to move from their spiritual home at The Avenue but obviously they had no real option due to the business decision taken by the professional club, who had large debts to clear.
I am not sure how accurate your information is but if it is true that London Irish Amateurs are getting Irish taxpayer money in at one end through the emigrant support programme, and spending large sums of money at the other end to pay players, then I would consider that a real scandal and something that Jerry Kiernan would be much more justified in directing his ire towards. Are you sure both of these things happen?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 02/04/2014 09:39:18    1569012

02/04/2014 09:39:18 Soma
I dont really know what you are saying in that post Ormond, whether you are suggesting that London Irish Amateurs are funding Hazelwood or not, but it is clearly a development being driven and funded by the business men who own London Irish - I dont think anybody doubts that. It is a pity that the Amateurs have to move from their spiritual home at The Avenue but obviously they had no real option due to the business decision taken by the professional club, who had large debts to clear.
I am not sure how accurate your information is but if it is true that London Irish Amateurs are getting Irish taxpayer money in at one end through the emigrant support programme, and spending large sums of money at the other end to pay players, then I would consider that a real scandal and something that Jerry Kiernan would be much more justified in directing his ire towards. Are you sure both of these things happen? No scandal with what LIARFC are doing unless you are making one up in your head.
Shame they will be moving from their spiritual home but they will be getting better newer facility nearby that can cope better with everyone's needs which is much better than the current situation

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/04/2014 10:51:24    1569071

Really Ormond? So you see nothing wrong with a sports club in London getting Irish taxpayers money, while also paying players to play for their first team? Is there any accountability for the funding they do receive, if they do in fact receive any? Can the Irish taxpayer be sure that the emigration support fund is not being used simply as additional funds to increase the money that can be paid to attract better players to the club? Surely any funds available within the club should be used for more worthwhile causes that they seek grants for and support emigrants, rather than simply paying a number of players to play for their first team? I dont think London Irish Amateurs own any property in London at all so it is hard to see what the long-term legacy of any of this funding would be.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 02/04/2014 12:11:58    1569146