I don't know what point people are making in relation to the Irish Sports Council. The GAA like every other sporting body in the state is entitled to Irish Sports Council money end off. Most of the money is distributed through the various sporting bodies, but the grants must go on specific worthwhile all inclusive projects. What it will not do is pay out annual salaries or bursaries to individuals to indulge themselves in the pursuit of their own pie-in-the-sky olympic dreams. Only the tangible gets rewarded with tax payers money which probably excludes 90% of our Olympic hopefuls. Also bear in mind the GAA unlike MOST other sports organisations retains and accomodates "social" players.

In relation to training, I speak for my own club only but from talking to other mentors in Dublin it is becoming fairly uniform. Since most clubs are duel code, factor in two training sessions a week minimum 3 hours, s separate core fitness program 2 hours, two matches, not to mention their own training/practice/fitness. Then throw in school training, school matches, PE. Then if involved with county its two more sessions and more matches. A decent duel code U15/U16 juvenile could be putting in up to 16 hours a week excluding their own regime. I can vouch for this for both boys and girls. The landscape has changed completely in relation to fitness. Even for a typical single code casual player the regime has changed.

I'm afraid the only dinosaur mentioned on this thread is Kiernan and his ridiculous comments.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4953 - 26/03/2014 20:26:55    1565517

ormondbannerman

Speaking purely from my own experience with my local club and the neighbouring clubs it generally is two training sessions a week. I grant you that you might not have a game every week but between 10 league games 3/4 challange matches in prep for championship and then the championship matches we would generally have about 20 matches a year. That would be only in one code alot of us play both football and hurling so there is definitely a large number of games to the extent to sometime we have to double league and championship matches to ful fill fixtures.

Im not trying to detract from other sports but the reality is that the grant from the sports council would be covered by government revenue from just one All-Ireland final. Transport food drink tickets the government all have their cut off that and with 83000 plus people going to the match plus countless others attending but not getting tickets its a money spinner for both the Gaa and the Government.

Iv seen both sides. Iv seen the monies that the gaa have and the pennies that the basketball leagues in ireland have had to survive. Iv Played Division 1 basketball and had to pay to get into the halls for matches. Now thats just wrong.

Like i said i dont take away from any other sports person and the efforts they make but i think its grossly ignorant for Mr. Kirwan to make his comments regarding gaa sports and the fitness levels of such players. These gentlemen and women put long hours and put their bodies on the line in every training session and match. The hold down full time jobs and or college careers. They dont have the luxury of scholarships and full time training. I think that everyone deserves a contribution from sports council to aid the progress of theirs selected sport but i certainly dont agree with the gaa players A. having their fitness or dedication questioned by someone who obviously doesnt know the requirements to play the game and B. the segregation of our national sports and players because the sport its self is a huge success

ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 27/03/2014 09:50:20    1565588

Your 'pie-in-the-sky' comment is very unfair arock. We have seen that more funding wields better results. Irish boxing for example. It isnt simply a question of salaries, the funding goes to bring in top coaches to train athletes to be the very best they can be. This happened in boxing and our results improved. We have even seen it in the gaa with the development of your own county. If the guys making the decisions in dublin had been told their ideas were 'pie-in-the-sky' a few years back we might have had a very different last couple of seasons.

Im not agreeing with kiernan, but I acknowledge that there are athletes out there who are not getting the treatment they should, while croke park rakes in money. I can see the logic, but as I already stated, attacking gaa players isnt the way to approach it.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 27/03/2014 10:07:20    1565595

I have to say I agree with Jerry on a lot of the points that he makes ,I think he has put them across badly though . I do believe he understands the level of fitness that GAA have but he saying that GAA people have no understanding of the requirements to be sucessful at international sports , as for the funding in 2012 the GAA got 47%of all monies given to sport in Ireland whether that be sports capital funding or lottery funding ,it is not even the biggest participation sport in the country .
There is a lot of rubbish spoken about the commitment of GAA players , they are no more or no less committed than most other sports people in Ireland and they are not truely amateur either most of the top county players are very ell taken care of as regards expenses and jobs etc. If any intercounty player ent to play college sport in the USA they would be declared ineligible due to amateur status .

As for Arocks comment about it being a social game if any thing it is completely the opposite the GAA is all about winning hence the huge drop off rate of 54% double most other sports between the ages of 18 and 22

tinrylandman (Carlow) - Posts: 387 - 27/03/2014 10:42:41    1565617

"There is a lot of rubbish spoken about the commitment of GAA players , they are no more or no less committed than most other sports people in Ireland"

Like who?

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 27/03/2014 11:05:11    1565627

26/03/2014 20:26:55 arock
I don't know what point people are making in relation to the Irish Sports Council. The GAA like every other sporting body in the state is entitled to Irish Sports Council money end off. Most of the money is distributed through the various sporting bodies, but the grants must go on specific worthwhile all inclusive projects. What it will not do is pay out annual salaries or bursaries to individuals to indulge themselves in the pursuit of their own pie-in-the-sky olympic dreams. Only the tangible gets rewarded with tax payers money which probably excludes 90% of our Olympic hopefuls. Also bear in mind the GAA unlike MOST other sports organisations retains and accomodates "social" players.Very harsh and talking out of your **** relating to some of our Olympic athletes. most sporting organisations do accommodate social events/competitions in one way or another
26/03/2014 20:26:55 arock
In relation to training, I speak for my own club only but from talking to other mentors in Dublin it is becoming fairly uniform. Since most clubs are duel code, factor in two training sessions a week minimum 3 hours, s separate core fitness program 2 hours, two matches, not to mention their own training/practice/fitness. Then throw in school training, school matches, PE. Then if involved with county its two more sessions and more matches. A decent duel code U15/U16 juvenile could be putting in up to 16 hours a week excluding their own regime. I can vouch for this for both boys and girls. The landscape has changed completely in relation to fitness. Even for a typical single code casual player the regime has changed. I'm afraid the only dinosaur mentioned on this thread is Kiernan and his ridiculous comments.
Do the sides you coach(strange I never ever use term mentor the you use it wonder why??) really have 2 matches a week between the codes. in all my experience of gaa and between hurling/gaelic ive never seen sides at underage(in my area at least) get a game a week for any length of time(by that I mean 6 out of 7 weeks)

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 27/03/2014 11:42:19    1565646

tinrylandman

I have a couple of issues with your comments.

Your right there is no more or less commitment required for the gaa than other sports but that in its self is the point. We should be treated like every other sports person. Having played a series of other sports over the years. They all require the attention to training at gaelic games but when players venture into the realm of intercounty level the demamnds are extreme. Club commitments Intercounty commitments perseason commitments these intercounty players are avtive 5/6 nights a week. They forego social lives holidays and activities in pursuit of championships. And while it is a personal choice they shouldnt be seen as a lesser sports person for it.

I struggle how you dont think that the gaa isnt the most participated in sports in ireland. In my country alone there are inexcess of 400 gaa clubs. Now i grant you cork is a particularly big county but i would venture that there is more paople in cork playing gaa sports that all the other sports combined. So i query what is the most participated sport in ireland in your opinion ???

Lastly your comments re the fall off from 18 to 22 that is the same of any sport where there is a participation level. Only 20 players can play a match and when you get up to aduklt level if your not goo enough then you dont play and no one wants to be sitting on the sidelines every match . Iv been very luck to have always got a run at least in my career but many out there dont.

Regarding Jerrys comments i dont think he understands the game. As stated earlier i dont think he understand the physical make up of a gaa player. Didnt see the cross fittness test done last year with a Gaa Player and athlete and a rugby player. And just shows his ignorange to any sports person other than an athlete. Sports people come in all shapes and sizes and i dont think he has the right or knowledge to comment on what he clearly knows nothing about

ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 27/03/2014 11:42:41    1565647

27/03/2014 09:50:20 ritchie
ormondbannerman, Speaking purely from my own experience with my local club and the neighbouring clubs it generally is two training sessions a week. I grant you that you might not have a game every week but between 10 league games 3/4 challange matches in prep for championship and then the championship matches we would generally have about 20 matches a year. That would be only in one code alot of us play both football and hurling so there is definitely a large number of games to the extent to sometime we have to double league and championship matches to ful fill fixtures.
Im not trying to detract from other sports but the reality is that the grant from the sports council would be covered by government revenue from just one All-Ireland final. Transport food drink tickets the government all have their cut off that and with 83000 plus people going to the match plus countless others attending but not getting tickets its a money spinner for both the Gaa and the Government.
Iv seen both sides. Iv seen the monies that the gaa have and the pennies that the basketball leagues in ireland have had to survive. Iv Played Division 1 basketball and had to pay to get into the halls for matches. Now thats just wrong.
Like i said i dont take away from any other sports person and the efforts they make but i think its grossly ignorant for Mr. Kirwan to make his comments regarding gaa sports and the fitness levels of such players. These gentlemen and women put long hours and put their bodies on the line in every training session and match. The hold down full time jobs and or college careers. They dont have the luxury of scholarships and full time training. I think that everyone deserves a contribution from sports council to aid the progress of theirs selected sport but i certainly dont agree with the gaa players A. having their fitness or dedication questioned by someone who obviously doesnt know the requirements to play the game and B. the segregation of our national sports and players because the sport its self is a huge success
From experience of playing up until under 16 and then from still going to games, talking to friends who still play hurling/gaelic they would never have got 20 games a year. There is no league. Championship played in a group format/round robin to give 5/6 games and then knockout rounds but would vary on what grade and how many teams in each grade
I agree Jerrys comments are incredibly ignorant and coming from an educator and former top athlete he should know better
27/03/2014 10:07:20 TheMaster
Your 'pie-in-the-sky' comment is very unfair arock. We have seen that more funding wields better results. Irish boxing for example. It isnt simply a question of salaries, the funding goes to bring in top coaches to train athletes to be the very best they can be. This happened in boxing and our results improved. We have even seen it in the gaa with the development of your own county. If the guys making the decisions in dublin had been told their ideas were 'pie-in-the-sky' a few years back we might have had a very different last couple of seasons.
Im not agreeing with kiernan, but I acknowledge that there are athletes out there who are not getting the treatment they should, while croke park rakes in money. I can see the logic, but as I already stated, attacking gaa players isnt the way to approach it. I agree with that Kiernan could have made a very good point but how he went on in media ruined anything positive he could say now etc

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 27/03/2014 11:48:10    1565651

27/03/2014 10:42:41 tinrylandman
I have to say I agree with Jerry on a lot of the points that he makes ,I think he has put them across badly though . I do believe he understands the level of fitness that GAA have but he saying that GAA people have no understanding of the requirements to be sucessful at international sports , as for the funding in 2012 the GAA got 47%of all monies given to sport in Ireland whether that be sports capital funding or lottery funding ,it is not even the biggest participation sport in the country .
There is a lot of rubbish spoken about the commitment of GAA players , they are no more or no less committed than most other sports people in Ireland and they are not truely amateur either most of the top county players are very ell taken care of as regards expenses and jobs etc. If any intercounty player ent to play college sport in the USA they would be declared ineligible due to amateur status .
As for Arocks comment about it being a social game if any thing it is completely the opposite the GAA is all about winning hence the huge drop off rate of 54% double most other sports between the ages of 18 and 22 Very good point in last sentence. Its something hurling/gaelic don't have over rugby(with tag rugby) and soccer in that neither are very social sports in way tag is for rugby
The top gaa players are no more no less committed than most other top sports people.
Jerry had basis of some good points but ruined them by how he went about expressing his points. D- for the primary teacher Kiernan....

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 27/03/2014 11:51:57    1565654

27/03/2014 11:05:11
keeper7
"There is a lot of rubbish spoken about the commitment of GAA players , they are no more or no less committed than most other sports people in Ireland"

Like who? Any decent club runner/athlete. Any club swimmer/triathlete. top guys there do ridiculous hours?
Im a triathlete and the guys at home(im away in college during the week) train every evening but one during the week and do 2 morning swim sessions and at weekends do a full training session on the bike and most average 14-16 hours a week easy and a considerable few more are doing 20+ hours
Im away in college but still training. I do about 10 hours a week but as Im predominantly training on my own im going nowhere near intensity levels I should be/could be

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 27/03/2014 11:56:31    1565656

I think he has put them across badly though . I do believe he understands the level of fitness that GAA have but he saying that GAA people have no understanding of the requirements to be sucessful at international sports

Id agree with that. Furthermore, I would say that people giving out dont comprehend the type of training that people in athletics would undertake. They devote their lives to it, and that is just to make the grade. They probably train as hard in the off season than most gaa players do at the peak of their season. We shouldnt fall into the trap of rounding on these people because of what one guy said. It is a fact that they dont get treated well in ireland. Now what that has to do with gaa players is another matter, but I can understand the frustration.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 27/03/2014 11:58:04    1565659

Less time on here then?

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 27/03/2014 12:08:25    1565667

The bottom line is that Gaelic games reaches to every community in Ireland. An awful lot of children in these communities have the opportunity to, and do, participate in Gaelic games from early fundamentals.

To make this work the funding is necessary but so also are the hours and hours of work put in by many volunteers who give up their time to make the whole thing work.

While All Ireland competition is the Jewel in the crown the real strength with Gaelic games is that they provide opportunities for active sporting participation, developing friendships, learning to be a team player and many other qualities for a massive percentage of the young population in this country.

As such in my view it is richly deserving of the funding that it gets and comments to the contrary smack of ignorance.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 27/03/2014 12:21:37    1565682

The bottom line is that Gaelic games reaches to every community in Ireland. An awful lot of children in these communities have the opportunity to, and do, participate in Gaelic games from early fundamentals.

To make this work the funding is necessary but so also are the hours and hours of work put in by many volunteers who give up their time to make the whole thing work.

While All Ireland competition is the Jewel in the crown the real strength with Gaelic games is that they provide opportunities for active sporting participation, developing friendships, learning to be a team player and many other qualities for a massive percentage of the young population in this country.

As such in my view it is richly deserving of the funding that it gets and comments to the contrary smack of ignorance.



That is perfectly put. I think somewhere people made this about gaa players and athletes. Its not its about uneducated comments made by one person and is not a reflection on the athletic community .

ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 27/03/2014 13:10:17    1565718

Naysayer what you say about the GAA is also true about every other sport in Ireland but the GA get far more funding than it is entitled to in my opinion

tinrylandman (Carlow) - Posts: 387 - 27/03/2014 13:52:23    1565742

The Irish, North and South, are the most jealous, spiteful, begrudging race about. We really hate to see others getting anything more 'than us' and we want everyone to be as unhappy, underachieving and downtrodden as everyone else. Look at what happens when someone wins the Lotto or is successful in life like Bono etc. For one microsecond we say "Ahh well done and immediately go on the attack spouting "*****, who does he/she think they are? Begrudgery is Ireland's national sport.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9816 - 27/03/2014 13:57:43    1565747

The fact that Jerry thinks GAA sports are not skillful, but follows Shamrock Rovers says it all really.

What next, some follower of techno music claims that Bob Dylan can't play his guitar?

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 27/03/2014 14:57:04    1565788

The Irish, North and South, are the most jealous, spiteful, begrudging race about. We really hate to see others getting anything more 'than us' and we want everyone to be as unhappy, underachieving and downtrodden as everyone else. Look at what happens when someone wins the Lotto or is successful in life like Bono etc. For one microsecond we say "Ahh well done and immediately go on the attack spouting "*****, who does he/she think they are? Begrudgery is Ireland's national sport.

Bang on Ulsterman.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 27/03/2014 15:09:48    1565800

Bad example. Technically speaking, Bob Dylan wouldn't be a particularly good guitarist (or singer). Amazing songwriter though! ;)

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 27/03/2014 15:16:28    1565803

Naysayer what you say about the GAA is also true about every other sport in Ireland but the GA get far more funding than it is entitled to in my opinion

I do not believe any sport reaches to the number of young people that Gaelic games do - certainly where I grew up it is Gaelic games or nothing and many neighbouring communities are the same. If something has a track record of participation of the young in good numbers then I say keep the funding going.

Certainly make a case for other sports but make this case positively rather than sniping at something that is getting funding and giving a return in terms of our young peoples health and wellbeing.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 27/03/2014 15:16:44    1565804