hill16no1man
thats not irish news then so you feel that british sport should get more pages then the top irish sport?
your basicaly admitting he is going for money as you refer to a company and what does a company run on MONEY!!!
Sport is not supposed to be a buisness and if you really believe players love the game more then the money you would surely could not justify sexton moving from the most succesful rugby team which is also his local team to a weaker rugby team in another country just becuase he is getting more money
You can easily justify moving from one of the most successfull teams which is also his local team.
He is moving to a new city in a new country where the language spoken is not his first language. He is moving to a team where the challenges will be tougher as he will not have as strong players around him as he would with Leinster.
Stop acting all high and mighty and sanctimonious.
Sexton has won everything he possibly could with Leinster. He is now going to France for a new challenge and the chance to win a bouclier de brennus

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 26/02/2013 21:28:45    1339639

Ormond yeah thats the very point Im making. Money dictates matters and is the primary mover. If sweatnam and Zebo were still amateur they would still be able to play gaelic, the fact that they are under contract precludes them.
Your point about players not moving from Ireland cos they love it so much is a bit facile imo. How many of them would be able to command wages to compensate them for all the down sides of moving. Odriscoll is past it and he put the gun to IRFUs head a few years back with his courting of Biarritz. of the others maybe Kearney and Obrien but as they say watch this space.

pennypincher (Carlow) - Posts: 777 - 27/02/2013 09:41:13    1339678

Ormond your analysis is why Sexton is moving to France is funny. I think you are the one being sanctimonious with your assertion that sexton is going to France for opportunity to win bouclier de brennus, yeah sure he is, Im sure he has been dreaming bout it since he was a child. You well know the main reason he is going, after all as you said yourself they have only a short period to earn Money.
Life security is your term for it I see, beginning to engage in a bit of Rugbish there Ormond, you need to watch that its catching.

pennypincher (Carlow) - Posts: 777 - 27/02/2013 09:59:39    1339684

So professional rugby players only make an effort because they love their sport so much.

Someone should really tell their employers that they've been had and that these goys don't want the money!

Classic Ormond doublespeak!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13796 - 27/02/2013 10:25:32    1339700

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 3881

1339639
You can easily justify moving from one of the most successfull teams which is also his local team.
He is moving to a new city in a new country where the language spoken is not his first language. He is moving to a team where the challenges will be tougher as he will not have as strong players around him as he would with Leinster.
Stop acting all high and mighty and sanctimonious.
Sexton has won everything he possibly could with Leinster. He is now going to France for a new challenge and the chance to win a bouclier de brennus

all you said about sexton moving are negative things about his move,leaving his home town,leaving the best team in europe and having to learn a new language which surely only demonstrates even further that the whole reason he is moving is for money!!!
so you feel henry shefflin should move from ballyale shamrocks to a junior side because he has won everything he possibly could with ballyhale and will be a new challenge to try win the junior b championship? thats bs what sportsperson does not want to win the top competition available to them.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 27/02/2013 10:34:04    1339707

You cannot compare Henry Shefflin's hypothetical move to a junior B club to Johnny Sexton's move to France. It is apples and oranges.

Sexton has won the Heineken Cup three times. He will still have the opportunity to do this with a French team. He will now also have the oportunity to win a French league (which is a much higher standard than the Celtic League/Rabo Direct given that they are only putting second string teams).he will still be playing with Ireland.

His career is short. Rugby allows players to transfer easily from club to another. he is a great player. I hope he does well.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 27/02/2013 11:01:02    1339725

bennybunny

i ment in the fact that ormond had stated he won everything possible with leinster,ok its not same comparison but it still does not justify his move is for any other reason then money would you not agree?

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 27/02/2013 11:12:21    1339740

27/02/2013 09:41:13
pennypincher
Ormond yeah thats the very point Im making. Money dictates matters and is the primary mover. If sweatnam and Zebo were still amateur they would still be able to play gaelic, the fact that they are under contract precludes them.
Your point about players not moving from Ireland cos they love it so much is a bit facile imo. How many of them would be able to command wages to compensate them for all the down sides of moving. Odriscoll is past it and he put the gun to IRFUs head a few years back with his courting of Biarritz. of the others maybe Kearney and Obrien but as they say watch this space.
Money isnt the primary mover at all. Chance to play in a new city, country, learn new culture both of a country and playing style all very valid reasons for moving club
How is my point facile?
How is odriscoll past it? He may be close to retiring but he is still a world class player.

27/02/2013 09:59:39
pennypincher
Ormond your analysis is why Sexton is moving to France is funny. I think you are the one being sanctimonious with your assertion that sexton is going to France for opportunity to win bouclier de brennus, yeah sure he is, Im sure he has been dreaming bout it since he was a child. You well know the main reason he is going, after all as you said yourself they have only a short period to earn Money.
Life security is your term for it I see, beginning to engage in a bit of Rugbish there Ormond, you need to watch that its catching.
Not sanctimonious at all. He does only have a short time to earn money but he is on the move for a new challenge. What else can he do in Leinster that he has not already done?

27/02/2013 10:25:32
MesAmis
So professional rugby players only make an effort because they love their sport so much.
Someone should really tell their employers that they've been had and that these goys don't want the money!
Classic Ormond doublespeak!
Not doublespeak at all but if you cant see the point im making then you mustnt be able to read posts well enough and i think you should read my post again

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 27/02/2013 17:52:15    1339992

just admit it ormond hes going to france because they are paying him more money,its been with alot of rugby players,contepomi and wilkinson were just two to name

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 27/02/2013 21:39:20    1340118

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 3885

Not doublespeak at all but if you cant see the point im making then you mustnt be able to read posts well enough and i think you should read my post again

Read your post and understood it perfectly buddy. No need to try to be patronising.

You seem to think that professional sports people only make the huge effort they make because they love their sport. I disagree.

Professional sports is similar in many ways to a lot of other professions in that not everyone is their because they love their job. Some are there for the money and because they can get paid for playing sport. They don't all necessarily have a massive love for their chosen profession.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13796 - 28/02/2013 10:40:25    1340192

Mes Amis
Read your post and understood it perfectly buddy. No need to try to be patronising.

You seem to think that professional sports people only make the huge effort they make because they love their sport. I disagree.

Professional sports is similar in many ways to a lot of other professions in that not everyone is their because they love their job. Some are there for the money and because they can get paid for playing sport. They don't all necessarily have a massive love for their chosen profession.
And if you are to be believed and that Money is a real real big driver in determining where people play rugby then so many more irish players would have played for years in england/france.
I think pro sports people in the main make the effort for the love of their sport. Yes some do it for money but not in the main.
You have been implying it thr other way round and that in the main money is the main driver for players.
i was not patronising at all in my previous post. If you thought i was then thats your reading of my post but i clearly wasnt at all

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 28/02/2013 11:10:23    1340210

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 3886

And if you are to be believed and that Money is a real real big driver in determining where people play rugby then so many more irish players would have played for years in england/france.
I think pro sports people in the main make the effort for the love of their sport. Yes some do it for money but not in the main.
You have been implying it thr other way round and that in the main money is the main driver for players.
i was not patronising at all in my previous post. If you thought i was then thats your reading of my post but i clearly wasnt at all

I never said anything about money being a determining factor in WHERE people play their chosen sport. I don't know where you've picked that up from my posts, try and read them properly perhaps (this isn't me being patronising by the way going by your logic, CLEARLY).

Your post implied that professional sports people would all make the same effort they do now if they were not being paid to do it. If that's true, which I suppose it must be seeing as you said it, then why does anyone pay them at all?

Surely the IRFU is missing a massive trick here. Surely if they just didn't pay all the boys then they'd save a load of cash that they could spend on youth development or facilities or whatever. The players would still put in the same effort right? Win win situation I'd have thought.

No matter what when a sport goes professional the players are playing for the money. That's just how it is. Yes some of them may well love the game, love playing for their country/club etc, but one thing is for certain is that none of them will do it for free. There's nothing wrong with that by the way, they're professionals at the end of the day.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13796 - 28/02/2013 11:47:41    1340236

ormond
so you admit sexton is one of these people do you that is driven by the money?

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 28/02/2013 12:16:24    1340258

Players love playing and get paid to do so. Its the real world. It's not complicated. Are GAA players only driven by the grant money, no of course not. Being paid doesn't mean you love playing any less.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 28/02/2013 12:32:55    1340268

Money isnt the primary mover at all. Chance to play in a new city, country, learn new culture both of a country and playing style all very valid reasons for moving club

You must be joking ormond! will you ever give over. He is going for the money, he is dead right, if it was me id do the same, but he is still going for the money.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 28/02/2013 12:35:57    1340270

28/02/2013 11:47:41
MesAmis
I never said anything about money being a determining factor in WHERE people play their chosen sport. I don't know where you've picked that up from my posts, try and read them properly perhaps (this isn't me being patronising by the way going by your logic, CLEARLY).
Your post implied that professional sports people would all make the same effort they do now if they were not being paid to do it. If that's true, which I suppose it must be seeing as you said it, then why does anyone pay them at all?
Surely the IRFU is missing a massive trick here. Surely if they just didn't pay all the boys then they'd save a load of cash that they could spend on youth development or facilities or whatever. The players would still put in the same effort right? Win win situation I'd have thought.
No matter what when a sport goes professional the players are playing for the money. That's just how it is. Yes some of them may well love the game, love playing for their country/club etc, but one thing is for certain is that none of them will do it for free. There's nothing wrong with that by the way, they're professionals at the end of the day.
You are getting silly now with your arguments saying rubbish like the IRFU would save loads if they didnt play the players. Yes if you look at the likes of Paul o Connell, Donnacha Ryan effort they put in they would put the same effort in if they were not being paid. Ive heard from players like trevor hogan and others that they would do it all again as top class players and would play for nothing.
Go back to the players whos careers bridged the amatuer and pro eras and you would see the likes of Axel, Gaillimh, eric elwood, reggie corrigan, trevor brennan and they put the same effort from their first appearances in the amatuer era to when they were paid to play.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 28/02/2013 12:39:57    1340275

28/02/2013 12:16:24
hill16no1man
ormond
so you admit sexton is one of these people do you that is driven by the money?
I never said he was driven by money. Driven by mony implies that money is the main and overriding reason. Chance to live in new country, culture, were all main factors in sextons move
Jonny is from dublin, went to school there, college there. has lived there his entire life. He is getting out of his comfort zone. Thats the major determinent in his move.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 28/02/2013 12:44:19    1340278

oh come off ormond if he was being offered less money then he is getting in leinster do you think he would have moved?

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 28/02/2013 13:51:21    1340326

28/02/2013 13:51:21
hill16no1man
oh come off ormond if he was being offered less money then he is getting in leinster do you think he would have moved?
He may have but we will never know will we?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 28/02/2013 14:03:32    1340337

ormondbannerman
He may have but we will never know will we?


link

Actually, we do know...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 28/02/2013 16:04:08    1340433