Who is he anyway? I never heard of him before.
________

He's the fella with the terrible haircut who shows up on our screens every 4 years

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 15/02/2013 14:06:59    1334471

Some contrast between this thread where everyone is leaping to the defence of the standing of GAA players in the Irish sports scene and the AFL PED's thread where everyone is saying drug-testing it is too much for a bunch of amateurs. Now I haven't compared who is posting on both threads but it is definitely an interesting counterpoint to that conversation.

We can't have it both ways. If GAA players are worthy of grants based on their dedication and commitment which I would agree that they are then they must also be subject to the same scrutiny regarding how they achieve that performance. We can't disagree with Kiernan's comments but still lament the need for drug testing...

I think Kiernan is fighting the wrong battle anyway. Instead of all scrapping for the meagre portions on the table he should be looking at sports funding as a whole. There is some stat out there that every euro invested in sport returns 3 or 4 to the economy. Why isn't he fighting that battle particularly when you look at how quickly politicians are to associate themselves to sporting success when it happens? Picking on the GAA is a very small minded approach to the argument. Like any problem in life blaming the crowd down the road or turning on your neighbour is always easier than looking at the entire system and what the guys at the top are doing.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 15/02/2013 14:09:42    1334474

For the 15,000+ Donegal people who were in Croke park for Kevin Cassidys score v Kildare
For the 20,000 Donegal people that saw Karl Laceys winning score v Kerry
For the 30,000+ donegal people that saw Frank McGlynns point againts Cork
and for the 40,000+ donegal people who say Michael Murphys goal v Mayo
For the 50,000+ Dubs who saw Cluxtons score v Kerry
For the 50,000 Galway people who saw Joes goal v Kilkenny

and the millions that go to games and watch them sunday in sunday out there are moments the GAA will bring us moments that will live for a lifetime.
€400 a player is a sneeze.

Once every four years we have a fleeting interest in kayaking, sailing, someone walking fast, someone doing a medley and invariably they come fourth ina heat where 3 go through.

Jerry needs a serious dose of realisation on who lives ina a "cloistered" world

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 15/02/2013 14:15:49    1334479

bad.monkey
County: USA
Posts: 3348

1334441
I'd imagine he made the ridiculous fitness comments to draw some attention (very successfully!) to his main point that if the GAA make such huge amounts of money maybe should be paying the players grants instead of the state

You see that opens up several very complex and interlinked arguments within the GAA, athletics and across Irish sport and had Jerry tried to address it rationally I suspect is brain might have spontaneously combusted. He hasn't done this in actuality- he's just buried that argument under a bitter tirade against amateur athletes.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 15/02/2013 14:18:03    1334480

One of the problems a good few people involved in athletics have is that when they look at the GAA they often question what the second A stands for. Some of them are rightly or wrongly a bit annoyed that the association does nothing to promote athletics, then again though why should it?

The GAA (including all codes and the LGFA) is the biggest sporting body in the country, and the one with the most financial and structural resources. So on one level you can see where he is coming from, if an association already has all this at hand, then why should it receive grants that could instead go to promoting sports that need it more?

Look at the state of the Morton Stadium in Santry, and it's supposed to be a national stadium. The only other high level athletics facility in the capital is the Irishtown stadium out in Ringsend and look at how long it took to get the indoor centre in Athlone up and running. It's fair to argue the government should be helping get basic facilities up to scratch isn't it?

Yeah there's a good chance these comments are borne out of jealousy, but at the same time the point he's probably trying to make is a fair one, if big organisations like the GAA, FAI and IRFU are able to build up such levels of financial and practical resources, then isn't it fair that the money the government spends on sports is funnelled into the less financially strong sports and associations?

Again though an argument like that would become a bit of a mass participation v elite level and developmental stages debate.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 15/02/2013 14:18:27    1334482

doublehop
County: Kildare
Posts: 2749

1334474

GAA players should be tested - there's no doubting that

The Irish Sports Council hand out these grants and as such they need to be tested.

There was 87 tests - 3rd highest out of all sports even ahead of professional sports and they all came back negative.

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 15/02/2013 14:23:34    1334485

Great Post there roundball; roundball
County: Tipperary
Posts: 1762

I am a GAA man first and foremost but I love to see Ireland excel at all sports. I have to be honest that I sometimes feel that the GAA robs us of our best athletes. When you see how poor we are in international athletics and I observe the physicality of players contained within the GAA I wonder what impact they could make. Last weekend when I saw our Rugby team struggling against England there was a side of me thinking, God wouldnt it be great if we had the likes of Michael Murphy, Ciaran Sheehan, Pearce O'Neill, Aidan O'Se etc representing us. That for me is one of the single biggest issues we have, our finest athletes dont get the chance to compete internationally and hence grow Irelands status as a sports country. I was once hear Brian O'Driscoll been quoted as saying that until Rugby in this country taps into the GAA player base we will never compete with New Zealand. Just a thought!

sportsfan14 (USA) - Posts: 281 - 15/02/2013 14:30:12    1334492

Ona seperate note as this is government funded grants i don't see why Jerry Keirnan's argument had to be that GAA players deserve the funding less than Athletes.
Is the argument if the money is well spent taxpayer money versus other ways of spending taxpayers money
I'd be happy if GAA players or indeed Olympic potential marathon Athletes were funded ahead of say

1. €1m retirement bonuses for heads of failed building societies
2. The €20m a year in fees that the special Liqudiator of IBRC will clean up
3. The €150k a year pension that we pay to former Senior politcians and civil servants

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 15/02/2013 14:31:13    1334494

ruanua
County: Donegal
Posts: 4469

1334494 Ona seperate note as this is government funded grants i don't see why Jerry Keirnan's argument had to be that GAA players deserve the funding less than Athletes.
Is the argument if the money is well spent taxpayer money versus other ways of spending taxpayers money
I'd be happy if GAA players or indeed Olympic potential marathon Athletes were funded ahead of say

1. €1m retirement bonuses for heads of failed building societies
2. The €20m a year in fees that the special Liqudiator of IBRC will clean up
3. The €150k a year pension that we pay to former Senior politcians and civil servants
_____

Amen to that.

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 15/02/2013 14:38:29    1334502

Beelzedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 231

doublehop
County: Kildare
Posts: 2749

GAA players should be tested - there's no doubting that

The Irish Sports Council hand out these grants and as such they need to be tested.

There was 87 tests - 3rd highest out of all sports even ahead of professional sports and they all came back negative.

I wonder what the ratio of GAA players receiving grants is to professional rugby players?

I'd imagine there's a lot more players out there on intercounty panels than there is players on the panels of the four provincial rugby teams.

In terms of tests per player and tests per match I'd say that rugby has a higher testing record than Gaelic games. Factoring in rugby players being tested after playing matches in England or France or wherever and also the fact that the Ulster rugby team may be subject to testing by UKAD and not the ISC then the figure for rugby would be fairly standard.

GAA players need to be tested. But 87 tests per year doesn't even come to three tests per county annually, so chances are only one footballer and one hurler in each county was tested, compared to two players after every rugby match that seems a bit on the low side.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 15/02/2013 14:45:25    1334506

CaisleanCnucha
County: Dublin
Posts: 85
It was on Newstalk radio "Off the Ball" which sometimes "discusses" GAA. So ".....surely there were a few GAA members there to stick up for our sport, if not I'm disappointed."

The stock anwser from Newstalk is that they don't do "balance" they do "News, Opinion and comment" - in this case the emphasis is on Opinion.

So you won't get a balanced argument end of. Kearnan I suspect threw it is a random ill-thought out comment as these discussions tend to meander all over the place looking for a wiff of controversy but have no real value.

It is of course rubbish, I have a lot of time for him and he has commented on GAA matches/sport before and he is knowledgable. But hes off the mark here.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4953 - 15/02/2013 14:49:35    1334511

sportsfan14
County: USA
Posts: 91

1334492


That's not the GAA's problem or responsibility though. Kiernan was painting the GAA as some child snatching organisation that rob all other sports of their finest talent (ironically we experience a similar paranoia- it's called AFL anxiety). If athletics or any other sport for that matter in Ireland can't convince the best young talent that it's a worthwhile pursuit and they can't convince the Irish people that it is an outrage that they're elite performers aren't better funded- who's fault is that?

I'll put it this way. If Leo Varadkar and Michael Ring stood on the plinth at Leinster House and announced they were completely withdrawing elite athletics funding and putting in to grassroot sports- would anyone shed a tear?

Bitter, angry people like Kiernan (I know he's not always bitter and angry but he sure was last night) don't do Athletics image any good.

I know they feel the GAA cut them adrift all those years ago but it's time to get up on your own two feet and fight your own corner without attacking other sports, lads.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 15/02/2013 14:50:49    1334514

This argument about the GAA having the financial resources needs closer examination. It is well resourced because 1) It is well managed 2) High preportion of volunteerism 3) Amateur status. 4) Any profits made are ploughed back into GAA facilities. Perhaps if Athletics being a world sport didnt pay its Usain Bolts they too would be able to fund better facilities world wide, same is true of soccer, Supporters cite its International dimension as one of its advantages, if FIFA adopted the GAA attitude and put a salary cap on the players soccer in Ireland would have more money to invest in facilities.
Those who give out about the GAAs pot of gold are very quick to come looking to use those same facilities when looking to stage an International tournament. (Rugby WC). Perhaps if BOD and co were willing to revert to amateur status for a few years they might be able stage such a tournament in their own stadia. You cant have it both ways!!

mod (Mayo) - Posts: 859 - 15/02/2013 14:53:36    1334518

if_in_doubt
County: Kildare
Posts: 1629

1334506
________

87 for an amateur sport with very little to gain other than repesenting your county and well €400 a year on average

80 for a professional sport where the best players are paid the most - which can be 100's of thousands a year

Who has more to gain?

All of which came back negative of course

Those are the stats.

I think the fact that GAA players are the 3rd most tested in this country even ahead of professional sports shows that they are receiving a lot of attention.

Should GAA players become the number 1 most tested? How far should testign GAA players go... personally I think that would be taking the eyes off the ball

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 15/02/2013 15:05:08    1334525

What time was it on last night must listen back to what he said

Westmayo (Mayo) - Posts: 335 - 15/02/2013 15:11:37    1334532

mod
County: Mayo
Posts: 544

1334518
This argument about the GAA having the financial resources needs closer examination. It is well resourced because 1) It is well managed 2) High preportion of volunteerism 3) Amateur status. 4) Any profits made are ploughed back into GAA facilities. Perhaps if Athletics being a world sport didnt pay its Usain Bolts they too would be able to fund better facilities world wide, same is true of soccer, Supporters cite its International dimension as one of its advantages, if FIFA adopted the GAA attitude and put a salary cap on the players soccer in Ireland would have more money to invest in facilities.
Those who give out about the GAAs pot of gold are very quick to come looking to use those same facilities when looking to stage an International tournament. (Rugby WC). Perhaps if BOD and co were willing to revert to amateur status for a few years they might be able stage such a tournament in their own stadia. You cant have it both ways!!


At least Rugby and Soccer have financial models to support professionalism without public money, even if in some cases this involves shady, eccentric billionaires ploughing hundreds of millions in to buying and paying sulky prima donnas... and Mario Ballotelli.

Athletics has neither proper professional structure by which they can support their own athletes nor the inclination to spend the money they do get from government on generating interest in their sport and developing a deep pool of young talent. Why should the government subsidise a quasi-professional sport in the first place? Surely Government money should go towards increasing participation and developing elite young athletes. If you're good enough to compete at the highest level after that, attract sponsorship or earn money on the circuit- good and well, if not then the Sports Council should support you for a limited time to give you an opportunity to get that level, not fund your career indefinitely.

The GAA for all our flaws put most of the money that comes in in to local projects or stadia that players can aspire to play in. Maybe we should ask the question if we should be reimbursing top players ourselves- but I think that's a decision an association should take itself rather than have government money going to every elite athlete (is the sub goalie on a Lory Meagher hurling team an elite athlete?).

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 15/02/2013 15:19:29    1334540

Beelzedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 233

87 for an amateur sport with very little to gain other than repesenting your county and well €400 a year on average

80 for a professional sport where the best players are paid the most - which can be 100's of thousands a year

Who has more to gain?

All of which came back negative of course

Those are the stats.

I think the fact that GAA players are the 3rd most tested in this country even ahead of professional sports shows that they are receiving a lot of attention.

Should GAA players become the number 1 most tested? How far should testign GAA players go... personally I think that would be taking the eyes off the ball

If there's an argument for saying rugby players have more to gain (I'd agree by the way), then isn't there an argument for saying that they'd also have more to lose should they fail a test, banned for a few months and severe damages to their career.

It's 80 tests for a professional sport which has only four teams, again they would have been tested a lot of times outside of the country too, so therefore the number of tests Irish rugby players are subjected to would definitely be higher than 80. There's more intercounty players out there than profesional rugby players, and certainly a higher number of players than there is high level cyclists or people competing at a high level in athletics.

Ideally the ratio of sports stars tested would be level across the board, I don't think any sport should be singled out or be let of lightly when it comes to anti-doping.

That though would probably mean more tests for GAA players, surely less than three players per county each year seems a bit on the low side.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 15/02/2013 15:20:52    1334543

if_in_doubt
County: Kildare
Posts: 1629

1334506

Seriously man... how far do you want GAA testing to go?

Should it over take Athletics?

I mean what was Athletics at again in this country... a sport known for doping. 130 odd tests wasnt it...?

I think your request for more GAA players to be tested is completely misguided.

Professional athletes have far more to gain from doping and they also have the most to lose.. but hey when has that ever stopped them????

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 15/02/2013 15:25:26    1334547

if_in_doubt
County: Kildare
Posts: 1631

why should the government give athletics all the basic facilities it wants? Should it also spend millions on ther sports such as snooker, darts, ice hockey, cricket?

no the GAA is the most popular organisation in the country so it should get the most money for grants, facilities etc.

In fact it should get more. Creating 200 million for the economy every year, I believe every GAA inter county player should be paid 2,000 a year and not a measly
400.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 15/02/2013 15:25:36    1334548

If there's an argument for saying rugby players have more to gain (I'd agree by the way), then isn't there an argument for saying that they'd also have more to lose should they fail a test, banned for a few months and severe damages to their career.
_______________

When has that ever stopped professional athletes from doping though...?

They still take the risks. It's seemingly worth it... €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€

If you want more GAA players to be tested then fair enough... but we're not that far behind Athletics in this country and for GAA players to become the most tested sports person in this country is pure comedy gold in my eyes.

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 15/02/2013 15:30:45    1334552