Bluewave, are you serious? Did you ever see Cork's stats after a game? They don't even pretend to be a kick passing team... doesn't mean they can't be, they just haven't played like that under Counihan. Taking your frustrations at McStay out is understandable - I wouldn't find myself agreeing with his views all that much myself - but don't let your frustrations distort your view of reality, it undermines your point.

As for Kerry only including their purest footballers... they lost that innocence after Armagh in 2002, if not before. If any county was retarded in that regard, it was my own, and Galway might still fit the bill. Good broken ball winners or a man markers are specialist roles... not to be assigned to the artists of the game, unless by coincidence they also know something of the dark arts.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 04/02/2013 18:43:41    1328553

Bluewave what are you going on about? So only Cork, Kerry and Dublin play a kick passing game?

Yes !

Bluewave (Dublin) - Posts: 552 - 04/02/2013 18:44:20    1328554

Cork v Kildare .... Cork
Donegal v Down .... Donegal
Kerry v Dublin .... Kerry
Mayo v Tyrone .... Mayo

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 04/02/2013 18:53:04    1328558

Kildare
Donegal
Dublin
Mayo

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 04/02/2013 18:57:55    1328565

Cork v Kildare .... Cork
Donegal v Down .... Donegal
Kerry v Dublin .... Dublin
Mayo v Tyrone .... Tyrone

Bluewave (Dublin) - Posts: 552 - 04/02/2013 19:00:09    1328568

So you are serious. I really am gobsmacked. Sometimes I wonder how peoplecome to these conclusions. Imo the majorityof teams handpass their way out of defence and then use the kickpass. To suggest that those three teams are the only teams that kick pass is bonkers.

You do realise you included Cork who probably use the hand pass more than most.

sedico (Kildare) - Posts: 1682 - 04/02/2013 19:04:48    1328572

Pericles I agree with a lot of that, I base my views on Cork from what I saw Saturday I would not be aware of their previous stats.

Bluewave (Dublin) - Posts: 552 - 04/02/2013 19:04:59    1328573

Prediction for next weekend

Cork v Kildare.......Kildare
Donegal V Down....Donegal
Mayo v Tyrone......Tyrone
Kerry v Dublin.......Dublin

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 04/02/2013 19:12:57    1328580

My money next week is going on:
Cork
Dublin
Mayo
Donegal

Pays out just over 6/1 with paddy power, dublin on their own are 11/10, crazy price with so many new players lining out for kerry again next weekend.

dubes (Kerry) - Posts: 69 - 04/02/2013 20:25:34    1328649

Just going back to lostintime's comment on the previous page, you can see clearly how players from previous Kerry underage teams have failed to make the step up to senior. Since the U21 team that produced the likes of Tommy Walsh, David Moran and Killian Buckley not a single top quality player has made the step up. Whereas if you look at Mayos line-up yesterday (and no im not trying to talk mayo up it is just the team that i have the most knowledge on) only David Clarke, Kevin McLoughlin, Lee Keegan and Jason Doherty (the last 3 all played an AI semi final) never played in either an All Ireland Minor or U21 final. Just compare the development of Aidan O'Shea vs Barry John Keane/Barry John Walsh, 3 players who would have been included in the top 5 or 10 minor players in 2008. O'Shea is now one of the best midfielders in the game whereas the 2 Barry John's wouldn't be what you would consider to be top inter county players. Look at the Dublin set-up for example. Any county would dream of havin the youth system they have. Jack McCaffrey, Emmet O'Conghaile and Paul Mannion all played minor 2 years ago and are now competing for places on the Dublin team. Then there is Ciaran Kilkenny who would be the 1st name on many team sheets in the country. If Kerry dont start producing quality young players to replace their aging team, it could spell trouble.

pitch_invader (Mayo) - Posts: 154 - 04/02/2013 20:26:46    1328650

Cork v Kildare .... Kildare (the young fella for Kildare, Kelly? keeps playing like that he could be contender for young player of the year)
Donegal v Down .... Donegal (Donegal to step it up, Kildare match will have done them good)
Kerry v Dublin .... Dublin (toughest one to call... Dublin to shade this)
Mayo v Tyrone .... Mayo (Mayo, I think your man Varley is top notch)

bluedubstar (Dublin) - Posts: 835 - 04/02/2013 20:35:53    1328664

I think its a bit rich people writing Kerry's epitaph and rubbishing their young players on the strength of their first league game on a wet weekend in Castlebar... How many all irelands? 36 is it?

unclegerry (Mayo) - Posts: 1223 - 04/02/2013 20:42:17    1328671

Later than planned but tactical analysis of Mayo's win over Kerry now up http://action81.com/blog/?p=6648

emmetryan (Dublin) - Posts: 154 - 04/02/2013 21:30:09    1328718

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 5721

1328100 The dubs start 5 points down?! More like 5 points up by playing at home all the time! The fact the dubs give away so many fouls has a lot to do with their over-emphasis on physicality. They come thundering into tackles with smaller players far too often. They also seem to struggle with this type of player in open play, which probably makes it look even worse (Kevin McLoughlin last year for example).

they come thundering more like good oul fashion tackles good shoulder to shoulder tackles example ger brennan on sat night but of course the ref going over board and dishing out free's like sweets...

dubbydave. (Dublin) - Posts: 3927 - 04/02/2013 21:39:52    1328725

TheMaster

Dublin are always playing against an official as well as the other team. Horan was clever last year bringing up the training games etc. This clearly effected Joe McQuillans performance in reffing the game. Mayo lay on the ground for half a half pretending to be injured. I just cant see how you can defend it. It was a disgrace.

A few years ago when Mayo beat Dublin with that "McDonald" point I just held my hands up and said fair play to Mayo, Dubs bottled it!!!

But last year if it werent for some terrible reffing and a lack of time added on......Dublin would have won.

Mayo were beating Dublin to everything, but the start of the second half they started time wasting. Ironically this helped Dublin get back into the game. If Mayo had pushed on they would have beat Dublin comprehensively. There should have been about 15 mins added on....as a fan I felt robbed by the ref. I paid to see a game......not one and a half halves!!!!

Five points down is very true. Like I go to alot of games that dont involve Dublin.....No team gets a rougher time than Dublin with regards decisions in games. And Im not a shouter or a screamer, Im very relaxed at games. Some of the frees given to teams playing Dublin are laughable. Against Laois last year a fella tripped himself up five yards away from Bastick and got a free!!!

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 05/02/2013 09:45:04    1328774

Ger Brennan's a great man for the hard fair tackles alright Dubbydave. I must admit, I'd love if Mayo had a centre back like him. Our no 6 is more concerned with bombing up the pitch than with stopping the oppossition.
My predictions for the w-end:
Dublin
Mayo
Donegal
Cork

Going for a Dublin / Donegal double with my bet

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 05/02/2013 10:09:47    1328788

I dont believe they are dubbydave. It you take the example of the mayo-kerry game at the weekend, there was a good hard hit put in on feeney in the second half, a real bone-cruncher. But because it was executed well and the timing was right, there was no foul. You give ger brennan as an example, yet I recall him shouldering a guy in the side of the head not so long ago, that is just poor execution and it is more often than not going to be a foul. Similarly shouldering a guy who is already falling over will usually result in a foul. There is an art to that type of tackling, and it seems to be lost on many of the dublin players. Maybe they fall into this trap where they do so much work in the gym that they feel they have to use their strength every time someone comes near them.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 05/02/2013 10:11:46    1328789

Cant believe Dublins price of 11/10, that is unreral in my view, will be backing them for sure, Kerry are very under strength and looked really poor v Mayo at times.

51longago (Mayo) - Posts: 2981 - 05/02/2013 12:59:58    1328921

JAYP ARE YOU TRYING TO WIND THE MASTER UP ? iF YOU ARE YOU DONE A GREAT JOB AT WINDING ME UP TOO. PLEASE ADD A BIT OF BALANCE AND A BIT OF TRUTH TO YOUR POST MAN.


Dublin are always playing against an official as well as the other team. Horan was clever last year bringing up the training games etc. This clearly effected Joe McQuillans performance in reffing the game. Mayo lay on the ground for half a half pretending to be injured. I just cant see how you can defend it. It was a disgrace.

That is an unprofound accusation coming from a Dublin fan who thinks every man and his dog is against us. I too am a Dublin fan but i do not believe for one second that the countries top referees have some personnal vendetta against the Dubs. This is simply Rubbish. Dublin have had their fair share of decisions go their way down through the years. The fact of the matter is when Dublin play and your standing on Hill 16 or sitting in the stands or whatever the case may be , You have blue tinted glasses. Every free kick given against your side you will say "Ah for feck sake there is nothing in that" , I'm the very same. But when you go home and watch it in the cold light of day more times than not you will find the referee's decision is infact a correct one. Blaming referees is a sad attempt at trying to deflect the blame and shortcomings of your players (Because you can guarantee you wont hear the same whinging and moaning with regards to Referees if your team has just come out of a tight game victorious). Dublin got an outragous free kick v Kildare the year we won the All Ireland, That free ended up being the winning of the game. It swings in roundabouts.

But last year if it werent for some terrible reffing and a lack of time added on......Dublin would have won.

WRONG. I'm sorry i know your a fellow Dublin fan but this is wrong. You cannot for one second blame the Referee for last years defeat to Mayo. Mayo's tactics/time wasting whatever you want to call it didn't lose us the game either. Nor did any refereeing decisions. Why wont fans of teams simply admit the better team won ? Aside from the first 7 or 8 minutes and the last 15 minutes , Mayo absolutely destroyed Dublin in positions 1-15. They kicked some phenomonal scores and Mayo deserve credit for the way they played in that game. Even now they dont get the praise they deserve because of people choosing to look at their antics with regards to wasting time as oppose to the free flowing football they played. I'd prefer to look at the shortcomings of the Dublin panel of 2012 and ask myself why we didnt perform from the 8th minute up until the 51st minute of the game. Why we looked sluggish and lethargic. No doubt Mayo did get a bit cynical with regards to fouls and time wasting , But people in glass houses and all that , I'm nearly certain Dublin done the same thing against Laois in our quarter final (in what was another inept performance in 2012) .. You can't tar one without the other you just can't. Dublin lost against Mayo because Mayo wanted it more and performed better. Not because they wasted time. I'd concentrate more on why BB missed a glorious chance to win the game when one on one with the goalkeeper towards the end of the game.

were beating Dublin to everything, but the start of the second half they started time wasting. Ironically this helped Dublin get back into the game. If Mayo had pushed on they would have beat Dublin comprehensively. There should have been about 15 mins added on....as a fan I felt robbed by the ref. I paid to see a game......not one and a half halves!!!!

If it helped Dublin get back into the game why are you complaining ? There should not have been 15 minutes added on , the 5 that was added was time enough. In the Quarter final we done the same thing Mayo did to us , Against Laois as i already said , Yet no mention of this ?

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13655 - 05/02/2013 13:23:40    1328941

Jesus, JayP, I hope you dont actually believe that stuff, genuinely I do, I hope you are trying to get a rise or something. Fair play to WaynoI, that is a very fair analysis. A few things sprang to mind while reading your (JayP) post.
1. Your point about McQuillan being against the dubs, hadnt the same ref given the dubs some very suspect decisions only a few months previous? E.g., one which had a big role in a telling score in the previous AI final?
2. As waynoI pointed out, Dublin used the same cynical game killing tactics in the previous game.
3. This notion about mayo lads pretending to be hurt is actually wrong. Yes they pulled a few lads down, I accept that. But the truth is that every player who went down with cramp or whatever else was either immediately subbed, or subbed within the next 10 minutes. Now I dont know what you class as cute or cynical play, but taking off 7 players; half your outfield lineup, to keep up a pretence of injury doesnt come under that heading, in my book. Every single one of them came off the field and were replaced, go and watch the game if you dont believe me. Did it ever cross your mind that missing half their outfield starters had some influence on them letting dublin back into the game, and not this idea that dublin 'woke up' and started showing they were the better side all along?
4. Your memory of the game is one sided to say the least. Apparantly you fell asleep for the first 50 minutes, only awaking when BB missed a goal chance, and now proclaim dublin would have won if it went in. Well first off it would have been a draw, and considering cluxton kicked a 45 that was actually a wide just before this, all things being equal it would have been a 1 point loss. But the truth is mayo had missed 3 goal chances themselves, just as clean cut. So if all 4 went in, dublin would have gotten a hiding.
5. You really should spend some more time looking at your own side's performance in the game. Maybe it is easier to blame everything on mayo, but the reality is if everyone in dublin takes that route then you wont be winning another AI any time soon.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 05/02/2013 14:26:23    1328996