re lockjaw

i think it was keegan lockjaw. mc hugh and lacey were marked men in the final. Mayo thought that they could get under a few of the donegals players skins by hitting hard but it didnt work. Horan now comes out with this and deflects the attention away from his own bad calls in the final.

DLlegends (Donegal) - Posts: 503 - 11/01/2013 14:25:23    1316936

master there is no disputing donegal have an unexceptional defence they have improved it on countless occasions..sure they had some bad years before mcguiness but the likes of the 2 mcgees and lacey have long been regarded as good defenders..put them in as good a system as mcguiness has constructed has meant its extremely difficult to score against them....but when were tyrone playing puke master?....his bias over kerry getting hammered resulted in him disgracefully labelling a side which was thrown at them for years after and totally unfairly..you had no issue with this of course cause your biased....joe brolly can say what he wants master....hes paid to do so....he didnt even say it on rte he said it in a newspaper which was ulster based

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 11/01/2013 14:54:52    1316956

that should mean exceptional btw

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 11/01/2013 14:56:32    1316959

You know the way the Yanks put together a petition to get Piers Morgan deported can we get a similar project on the go for the Master or at the very least his keyboard my word man take the blinkers off, you are really making yourself look quite silly you've been arguing with everyone on here for aslong as I can remember how can everyone be wrong besides you and Horan ?

Bluewave (Dublin) - Posts: 552 - 11/01/2013 15:03:03    1316969

Lockjaw if you were referencing those incidents then why did you quote my paragraph on the doherty yellow card when doing so? How does that make any sense?


Yes ffgg, I stated they were good defenders didnt I? But the reality is there are plenty of teams who have defenders who are just as good that did concede goals last year. Furthermore those same donegal players conceded more goals than most when they werent using this system. Therefore we simply have to conclude that it is the system and not simply the players' newfound fantastic defensive abilities that kept the goals out. Correct? Which is exactly what I said. However, the point is this system revolves around using tactical fouling to remove scoring chances for the opposition, so how can you turn around and say it is a result of exceptional defending? It doesnt add up. Again Im not faulting them, Im just pointing out how their system works, what it is and what it isnt.

As regards spillane, I have pointed out the distinction several times on the thread. It gets tiresome being asked the same things over and over. But anyway here it is again. The difference between what spillane done and what brolly done is this; when spillane accused tyrone of puke football, their opponents kerry were not also playing the same puke football at the time. Brolly accused mayo of tactical fouling and declared that this would have an affect on the final, but the reality is donegal had an even more developed system of tactical fouling, something he decided to totally ignore while discussing subject of tactical fouling. It is the equivalent of andy gray coming out and saying robin van persie is a diver and that shouldnt be allowed to affect the game against liverpool, while totally ignoring the fact that luis suarez (the biggest diver in football for those who dont follow it) is on the other team.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 11/01/2013 15:17:26    1316982

Ah man I'm done with this.

See if this makes sense.
Doherty was harshly cautioned I agree.
The other 3 I mentioned deserved theirs.

Nowt to do with what Brolly said. Players pick up harsh bookings up and down the country every weekend.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9822 - 11/01/2013 15:28:31    1316990

Bluewave
County: Dublin
Posts: 99

1316969 You know the way the Yanks put together a petition to get Piers Morgan deported can we get a similar project on the go for the Master or at the very least his keyboard my word man take the blinkers off, you are really making yourself look quite silly you've been arguing with everyone on here for aslong as I can remember how can everyone be wrong besides you and Horan ?

I'd definitely sign that.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 11/01/2013 15:28:44    1316991

but tyrone werent playing puke were they master?....it was a biased label put on them....its clear mayo are far worse for cynical fouling than others..why does nobody agree with you if your so correct?...and this is people from a variety of counties...donegal have numerous bodies back who know their roles and seldomly leave fellas isolated which means its exceptional tough to score goals...brolly was simply making a point about the game..if you dont like it dont read him...take your beating and concentrate on this year instead of whining and complaining

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 11/01/2013 15:29:46    1316993

how can you defend what o connor and vaughan did master?..o connor struck a fella multiple times?..it was a blatant sending off..id send that petition by the way

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 11/01/2013 15:30:37    1316994

Lockjaw
Nowt to do with what Brolly said. Players pick up harsh bookings up and down the country every weekend.

Maybe doherty's booking had nothing to do with it, then again how do we know it didnt? The reality is it doesnt really matter, the real issue is that brolly tried his best to disingenuously influence the all ireland final with a very biased article, whether he was successful or not doesnt really come into it, the effort was there. I dont think that someone should be able to do that and get away with it.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 11/01/2013 15:35:49    1316997

just like donegal were portrayed as anti football and some sort of evil team by pat spillane was it?...no complaints from you about that master...spillane should have been fired for his comments about tyrone if thats your attitude

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 11/01/2013 15:38:39    1317000

just like donegal were portrayed as anti football and some sort of evil team by pat spillane was it?...no complaints from you about that master...spillane should have been fired for his comments about tyrone if thats your attitude

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 11/01/2013 15:38:39    1317001

You're calling into question the integrity and intelligence of one of the game's finest referees. It's a bit of a reach on your part I think.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9822 - 11/01/2013 15:51:55    1317013

ffgg, how werent they? They were playing 'puke football' as much as mayo were using tactical fouling. If you want to go down that road then that is a totally different argument. I am accepting that mayo used tactical fouling, that isnt the basis of my argument. Yes they used it, but so did donegal.
Again, I state if you think mayo used tactical fouling more than donegal did then frankly you are just poorly informed on the subject, I cant say it any other way. If you cant see what donegal were doing and how they used it then I cant say much more to you. All you have to do is look at the stats on fouls over the year to see that what I am saying is correct. If you choose to keep saying this over and over while not checking the facts then what can be said to you? Donegal had it down to an art form, yet you state that it didnt even exist!

Donegal have numerous bodies back and seldom leave fellas isolated - true. You are telling telling us HOW they do that though. the answer to that is tactical fouling. For instance if mayo were using the donegal system against dublin they would have been fouling MD McAuley every time he fetched the ball, they would then block the quick free, get back in numbers and probably reduce the number of points conceded. Similarly, if they had used it against donegal, they would have fouled lacey, blocked the quick free and the ball wouldnt have gone in to murphy in that 1 on 1 situation. etc etc. They dont magically happen to get bodies back, and they dont coincidentally foul the guy way out the field and block the quick free, the two are linked.
The fact of me reading his article doesnt come into it. The reality is it was an attempt to influence the officials. You cannot be naive enough to think it wasnt.
As regards 'take your beating', I have stated, countless times that the best team won. I have stated countless times that Im not complaining about what donegal done. Is this going over your head or what? Can you not fathom the points put to you?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 11/01/2013 15:55:44    1317018

Master pundits do it all the time. Every time brady was on talk sport he was giving out about donegals tactics and all this before the final. Swings in roundabouts.

DLlegends (Donegal) - Posts: 503 - 11/01/2013 15:55:51    1317019

Regardless of Brolly's motives and the morality of it, Horan should have kept quiet about it.
Last year McGuinness was pilloried by all and sundry for Donegal's negative approach. What did he do? Moan about it in the papers? No - he rolled the sleeves up, tweaked the tactics and brought us an All-Ireland title. Mayo should concentrate on doing something similar.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9822 - 11/01/2013 15:58:02    1317022

Lockjaw
You're calling into question the integrity and intelligence of one of the game's finest referees. It's a bit of a reach on your part I think.

I am saying he is a human being lockjaw, no more no less. People get influenced by public perception, particularly in high pressure situations. That is just a fact of life. Brolly disingenuously attempted to sway this perception in the direction he wanted just before the game. Please dont tell me that you think the timing was a coincidence

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 11/01/2013 16:00:29    1317024

I dont believe he should lockjaw. Because if he does that then brolly could do it to someone else next year, and bring the game into disrepute again. Nobody should have licence to try such things.
As regards mcguinness, are you forgetting the episode with niall bogue? The guy was actually praising donegal and mcguinness went much further than responding to his comments... Either way it is beside the point. I think people are very closed minded to the effects that this could potentially have, or what kind of precedent it could set. Do we really want that in our game? I feel it is detrimental to its development.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 11/01/2013 16:27:58    1317044

Great piece by Tommy Conlon on this today in the Sindo:
It's a very fine line between passion and propaganda

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 13/01/2013 09:30:30    1317469

Doublehop
Your'e up and about early on a Sunday morning!!
A great piece ofentertaining journalism in the classic Sunday Independent mode. But one thing strikes me about it. If Brolly's offence was so henious in his eyes & the tone of the article is fairly full on, why has it taken till now for him to say anything about it? Why didi he have to wait for Horan to speak up first if he felt so strongly?
While Brolly's style is not necessarily my cup of tea, to condemn him out of hand as a lightweight is also over the top. He called Donegal early in the year to do what they did way ahead of his fellow analysts & the championship panned out more or less as he forecast.
I enjoyed the article but have to say that it suffers from the same disease that it accuses Brolly of, making mountains out of molehills.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 13/01/2013 10:42:46    1317473