Themaster new year same old story with you fairplay you stick to your guns, I hope you find some different ammo this year besides cynical fouling and time wasting as every ref in the country will be fully aware of your game plan no matter what tripe Horan comes out with.

Yew_Tree I salute you my friend and the others like you who actually preserve my faith in the modern Gaa fan.

Brolly is a national treasure and should be in the Dail !

Bluewave (Dublin) - Posts: 552 - 10/01/2013 15:35:58    1316445

why are you comparing him to me culann?...we may have vastly different opinions on things but i am no troll..you do realise its offensive to compare somebody to the master

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 10/01/2013 15:42:27    1316451

The foul counts tell a different story ffgg. Indeed, donegal's ethos towards fouling is so much more developed it isnt even funny. I can summerise it like this, massive foul count, minimal bookings, minimal scores conceded from frees, virtually no goals conceded at all. Nobody else comes close to this in the cynical stakes, in fact you have to commend them on it, because although it might not be the most honest of gameplans, their execution of it was almost perfect. They even managed to keep it out of the media, although that was probably helped by brolly putting the focus onto mayo. Furthermore, spillane has described the first 50 minutes of the mayo dublin game as the best example of honest attacking football we seen all year. I dont see what you are going off at all to be honest, the only thing I can think of is that you only watched the highlights of the games you are talking about.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 10/01/2013 15:46:28    1316452

ffgg
County: Longford
Posts: 2287

1316451 why are you comparing him to me culann?...we may have vastly different opinions on things but i am no troll..you do realise its offensive to compare somebody to the master

Only messing. I like debating with you and the fact that we disagree on quite a lot but that master lad is cat! I'll say one thing for him, he's loyal. But, its because of that very thing that he's incapable of discussing honestly and openly anything to do with CLG Mhaih Eo. You're wasting your time buddy.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 10/01/2013 15:50:01    1316454

Bluewave - I wouldn't agree with you on Brolly but anyway. I would like to think we may see something different in Mayo this year and less cyncial fouling. After all sticking to the same game plan as last year would be silly an naive. It is interesting to note that we have a new coach this year - ex kerry coach Donie Buckley while Cian O Neill is in kerry.

Donegal in 2011 got a national blasting by media and GAA fans for their anti football play. Mayo will have ( I hope) a much better plan this year. Horan actually touched base on that,and its a bit the full transcript of the interview can't be put up and not just sound bites.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11651 - 10/01/2013 16:16:57    1316474

RE: TheMaster

When I seen the tackles on the day from the Upper Cusack, I felt they were all potentially red cards. With regards the two you have issue with; I felt they were red, relative to the direct threat each move/situation posed to Mayo. With McHugh baring directly down on goal and the fact Lacey had given a great ball in a similar position to set up the first goal and managing to drag Dillon along with him for much of the opening 20 minutes I felt this was cynicism at its finest.
Both situations were ultimately dealt with and that was that. However, I do think the pressure of sending of a player on AI Final day was weighting heavily on the shoulders of Deegan. In fact, it could said that Brolly's comments were counter productive with regards to handing out the said red cards, but I choose not to believe that.

Call what may have happened out the field as you please. My point was in relation to defending we did in the backline by our defenders, every time Mayo tried to place quick ball into the forward line it was gobbled up and in effect it was spat right back out again. Over the course of the 70 minutes I cannot remember Mayo forwards winning the majority of the 1v1 situations, Mayo might have actually lost the majority.

I am sure you are aware, as many of the other posters have said, but unlike us, Mayo have yet to called for war crimes on Gaelic Football. We may eventually we meet in the Hague one day, until then Mayo have little to few grievances with what one man has to say.

DL17 (Donegal) - Posts: 86 - 10/01/2013 16:41:46    1316497

Yewtree: I've heard only good things about your new coach, has there been any move with regard to Mort will he ever feature again under Horan I hear Kildare have a hurling stick with his name on it :-P

Bluewave (Dublin) - Posts: 552 - 10/01/2013 16:59:46    1316520

I wouldnt agree with that muckross, I dont think he is trying to move the blame from himself at all to be honest with you. It must be stated that these extracts are taken from a bigger interview, the tone of which is lost in the 'greatest hits' version. The reality is it was an individual error that caused the 2nd goal. Indeed the first goal was in my opinion caused by poor play out the field. If mayo were using the donegal system they would have fouled lacey as soon as the ball was turned over. Hence my stance on their cynical play compared to mayo's. The ethos of 'stop everything' is more cynical than simply 'stop goal chances' is it not? the final is not really my point of contention, donegal won it and deserved to.

I dont get why brolly should be excused for knowingly writing a misleading article to favour one side over the other. We heard the dubs complaining when they thought horan done the same thing against them in the semi final (when in fact what he said was totally accurate), and he is the mayo manager, a guy who everyone knows is favouring mayo. What does that say about brolly, a supposed unbiased analyst with the good of the game in his interests, doing such things? I think people are getting caught up in the fact that I am from mayo and he was talking about mayo, but in truth this goes beyond county loyalties. In my opinion the guy abused his position in the worst possible way that he was able to in the hope of getting the officials to favour one team over another. That is highly unprofessional and downright dishonest. A guy in his position should be held acountable for such an act. If he had written about both teams then I wouldnt have an issue, there could be no complaints then because he would be writing for the good of the game. But he didnt do that. So if his intention wasnt to improve the game by highlighting this tactic, then what was it? Improve the immediate game for Donegal maybe? That isnt acceptable from a guy in his position.


DL17, name me one previous instance where a high tackle inside the first 5 minutes has resulted in a straight card. Also you seem to forgt that the first booking of the game was doherty, for what was a nothing foul. I dont think brolly's comments were counter productive in that instance. As for mchugh bearing down on goal, he was running away from goal on the corner of the large rectangle, keegan was flanked by 2 other mayo defenders. Either way, the reality is whether it had an effect or it didnt, the fact that brolly tried to do so is the thing that I find unacceptable.


I am sure you are aware, as many of the other posters have said, but unlike us, Mayo have yet to called for war crimes on Gaelic Football. We may eventually we meet in the Hague one day, until then Mayo have little to few grievances with what one man has to say.

Well I will tell you now DL17, I would much rather that statement be made about mayo, than what brolly attempted to do

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 10/01/2013 17:00:11    1316521

the reason donegal dont concede goals is they have such an exceptional defence master..they also rarely give away frees in scoreable positions...mayo on the otherhand decided to leave one of the best forwards in the country isolated with a small back...brolly analyse what he saw..mayo were delighted with their lack of attention before the final so horan cant say after the event that there was a bias...they lost simple as that and what brolly had to say was irrelevant..mayo went far too extreme in the initial stages of the final as they were too tense or whatever and the ref had no choice to take decisive action and it could have been a hell of a lot worse had cillian o connor received the punishment he deserved

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 10/01/2013 18:21:58    1316566

master you had no problem with tyrone and donegal being branded as puke amongst other things by pat spillane so again your objectivity leaves a lot to be desired once again

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 10/01/2013 18:29:42    1316574

RE: TheMaster

No doubting the fact that players will go largely unpunished for hefty challenges in the first 5 minutes, Tadhg Kennelly being another prime example. The saddening issue here is the major inconsistency that different referees bring to the game. This is the bottom line with it, but for Horan to go through Brolly and accuse the referee of costing them is just a tad bit farcical.
Similar to Doherty's yellow, Eamom McGee was booked in the incident with O'Connor. The last time I checked it was O'Conner who struck McGee.

It is hard to really be in a position to quantify and to be pragmatic when it's your own county in the firing line, but we all try. I think different about what Spillane said about us, because at the time that was said, we were trying to build traction which was huge point in our overall revival. Little to the knowledge of the great Spillane. So I, with many others in Donegal, tend to look upon his punditry with little to no credibility. We did take personal grievance with this but we didn't go so far as to say the referee was at fault for any of our downfalls. Horan really should have sought advice before he spoke on this occasion, it does not strike me as putting ones best foot forward for the 2013 campaign, I do wish Mayo all the very best.

DL17 (Donegal) - Posts: 86 - 10/01/2013 19:08:56    1316607

Bluewave
County: Dublin
Posts: 97

1316445
Themaster new year same old story with you fairplay you stick to your guns, I hope you find some different ammo this year besides cynical fouling and time wasting as every ref in the country will be fully aware of your game plan no matter what tripe Horan comes out with.

Yew_Tree I salute you my friend and the others like you who actually preserve my faith in the modern Gaa fan.

Brolly is a national treasure and should be in the Dail !

Stop. I'll have nightmares.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 10/01/2013 21:01:24    1316661

RE The Master.

Furthermore, spillane has described the first 50 minutes of the mayo dublin game as the best example of honest attacking football we seen all year.
Or the worst example of defending all year!

DLlegends (Donegal) - Posts: 503 - 11/01/2013 09:46:18    1316738

Mayo are always looking for excuses when losing finals to better teams and paddyogall should know that by now!

tommy k (Galway) - Posts: 3470 - 11/01/2013 11:20:37    1316780

ffgg
the reason donegal dont concede goals is they have such an exceptional defence master.

That is such a naive answer. Those lads were playing for donegal before they introduced their system, and they conceded a lot of goals. And although they got into very good condition, that doesnt make them any better in terms of defensive intelligence etc. The reason they didnt concede any goals is down to their tactic of choking the possessions their opponents get by fouling them out around the midfield, stopping a quick free and getting everyone back behind the ball to get into their defensive positions. The sheer number of bodies means that their opponents will never get near the goal from the free. At worst it will be a point. That is the reason, and not because jim mcguinness can suddenly turn a good group of defenders into the best defenders ever.


they also rarely give away frees in scoreable positions

That is because they purposely do it out in the middle third, thus killing the attacks.


brolly analyse what he saw..

He analysed half of what he saw, the half that suited the team he wanted to win. Unacceptable from a guy that has such a position in the game.


mayo were delighted with their lack of attention before the final so horan cant say after the event that there was a bias...

All the attention donegal was getting was relatively harmless stuff, it wasnt going to have an affect on the officials of the game. Horan was right to mention brolly's disingenuous attempt to affect the game. It shouldnt be happening and we as gaa members are foolish to allow it to do so unchallenged.


they lost simple as that and what brolly had to say was irrelevant..

Again, you seem to think that this is down to the fact mayo lost. I would be saying the same thing if mayo won, in fact I would be saying the same thing if mayo werent even involved. The man abused his position by knowingly putting out a biased article, adn the game was the AI final no less. That is wrong no matter who is involved.


mayo went far too extreme in the initial stages of the final as they were too tense or whatever and the ref had no choice to take decisive action and it could have been a hell of a lot worse had cillian o connor received the punishment he deserved

They were tense after doherty was booked for an absolute nothing foul after a couple of minutes, and who could blame them? It was an AI final, the last thing a team wants to see is a ref dishing out a booking for such a small infraction, and so early. The brolly article must have instantly been to the front of their minds. No way in hell did doherty deserve to be booked. Keegan did, but again there has never been a case where what he did was a straight red, as some are saying it should have been. As regards o'connor, the fact is he was blatently fouled before this incident. If brolly had written a fairer article then who is to say mcgee wouldnt have gotten the doherty treatment from the ref in that incident? A yellow card and a 4 point swing (donegal then went up and scored the 2nd goal) makes a hell of a difference to the game from that point. Again I point out Im not trying to say we should have won or any of that, we were beaten on the day, Im just trying to paint the picture of how small things can affect the game in a big way.


master you had no problem with tyrone and donegal being branded as puke amongst other things by pat spillane so again your objectivity leaves a lot to be desired once again

Again I point out, if kerry had also been playing puke football when spillane had made his assertions about tyrone, then it would be comparable. If it was only mayo using tactical fouling then I wouldnt have a complaint, but donegal were using it in a far more polished system. To ignore this fact when reporting on the subject is ridiculous.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 11/01/2013 11:36:58    1316796

TheMaster you would argue about the colour of s****.

"They were tense after doherty was booked for an absolute nothing foul after a couple of minutes, and who could blame them? It was an AI final, the last thing a team wants to see is a ref dishing out a booking for such a small infraction, and so early. The brolly article must have instantly been to the front of their minds."

I wouldn't be 100% on this but I would say it was highly unlikely that Brolly's or anyone else's article was on any Mayo player's mind on the day of the final. A few Mayo lads committed a few hefty challenges and were rightly cautioned. End of. Nothing whatsover to do with what Brolly said or wrote.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9822 - 11/01/2013 11:49:19    1316805

Lockjaw you say I argue for the sake of it, yet you then go on to say that doherty deserved a yellow card. He clearly didnt, and the fact that he was booked like he was must have raised questions in their heads. I know it did in mine, along with the people around me and the commentators. Why not the players? Do they not have brains in their heads?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 11/01/2013 11:56:35    1316813

I never said Doherty deserved a yellow. I said a few of the Mayo players. Did Eamon McGee deserve to be booked for the O'Connor incident?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9822 - 11/01/2013 12:05:57    1316823

You said mayo players were booked early on and they deserved them, 'end of'. Doherty was the first guy booked...

As regards mcgee, he done noticeably more than doherty did for the early card that he received. My point was if the ref was going to dish out an early card to doherty for such an infraction then mcgee might have gotten the same harsh treatment. I dont believe either deserved to get a card.
To be honest with you I dont think o'connor should have gone off either. He had just been fouled and it wasnt given, I know from experience that this can be very frustrating. It doesnt excuse the strikes, but then how much of a strike was it really? A lot of that goes on off the ball in every game. Its not as if he tried to knock the guys lights out. If it were a donegal man I would say the same thing, common sense should prevail. He deserved a yellow and a warning about it.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 11/01/2013 12:40:45    1316837

Eh what?

"A few Mayo lads committed a few hefty challenges and were rightly cautioned"

O'Connor's strike. Check.
The defender booked for the tackle on McHugh. Check.
Vaughan (I think) tackle on Lacey. Check.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9822 - 11/01/2013 14:07:48    1316915