Rua, I accept that o'se is entitled to his opinion. My own personal view is that we should try to stop it in the game, Im sure you have one also. My point is regarding the interest of fairness of such articles. I think Culann raises the point about critisism of amateur players, and I say they should be criticised if they deserve it. However my issue is that when a pundit criticises one group, and ignores the same behaviour of another group, on the eve of the two teams meeting that goes beyond the interest of journalism, and into the realm of abusing ones position to purposely misrepresent the facts. If he wanted to write an article on the subject then write one about them both, particularly when both actively used such tactics, as the article I provided displays. I ask you, what would motivate him to just select 1 of them?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 08/01/2013 16:54:25    1315449

Rua, I accept that o'se is entitled to his opinion. My own personal view is that we should try to stop it in the game, Im sure you have one also. My point is regarding the interest of fairness of such articles. I think Culann raises the point about critisism of amateur players, and I say they should be criticised if they deserve it. However my issue is that when a pundit criticises one group, and ignores the same behaviour of another group, on the eve of the two teams meeting that goes beyond the interest of journalism, and into the realm of abusing ones position to purposely misrepresent the facts. If he wanted to write an article on the subject then write one about them both, particularly when both actively used such tactics, as the article I provided displays. I ask you, what would motivate him to just select 1 of them?
themaster mayo


Its quite similar to the way you criticize other teams for so-called cynical play themaster,
and then choose to ignore it when Mayo do the same thing!
There's nothing like good auld hypocrisy!

TheGateKeeper (Tyrone) - Posts: 2843 - 08/01/2013 17:13:29    1315459

Rua, I accept that o'se is entitled to his opinion. My own personal view is that we should try to stop it in the game, Im sure you have one also. My point is regarding the interest of fairness of such articles. I think Culann raises the point about critisism of amateur players, and I say they should be criticised if they deserve it. However my issue is that when a pundit criticises one group, and ignores the same behaviour of another group, on the eve of the two teams meeting that goes beyond the interest of journalism, and into the realm of abusing ones position to purposely misrepresent the facts. If he wanted to write an article on the subject then write one about them both, particularly when both actively used such tactics, as the article I provided displays. I ask you, what would motivate him to just select 1 of them?
themaster mayo


Its quite similar to the way you criticize other teams for so-called cynical play themaster,
and then choose to ignore it when Mayo do the same thing!
There's nothing like good auld hypocrisy!
TheGateKeeper Tyrone

Reading not a strong point?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 08/01/2013 17:19:07    1315462

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 5433

Interesting article.

However, do Mayo not engage in the same tactical fouling around the middle of the park? Now I only saw Mayo in person twice last year (Semi-Final and Final) but I don't think I thought them particularily clean around the middle when it came to tactical fouling of midfielders. I'd also apply this to most of the top teams in the country, Dublin included. I'd also say that I don't think this problem is as big as is being made out for the game but perhaps that is better dealt with on another thread!

I think it could be argued that perhaps Brolly was biased in his comments before the final, as he seemed to only concentrate on Mayo. However as was stated by a number of posters, Donegal have not exactly gotten a fair go by the media since McGuinness' appointment.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13819 - 08/01/2013 17:25:10    1315465

However, do Mayo not engage in the same tactical fouling around the middle of the park? Now I only saw Mayo in person twice last year (Semi-Final and Final) but I don't think I thought them particularily clean around the middle when it came to tactical fouling of midfielders. I'd also apply this to most of the top teams in the country, Dublin included. I'd also say that I don't think this problem is as big as is being made out for the game but perhaps that is better dealt with on another thread!

They are no angels in the middle third, I would say they are much the same as every one else, but donegal are the team who in my opinion have perfected this. They never get booked, they stop the ball moving quickly and they get men back behind the ball and you barely notice it happening. They do this when they contest a kickout and lose. They carry out an inoccuous foul, slow it down and get back into position, it has all but eliminated goal scoring opportunities for opposing teams. Furthermore they do it with such precision and fluidity, you would have to look for it to see it. That is tactical fouling at its best, or worst whatever you want to call it. Mayo hauling guys down 25 yards from goal, getting booked, slaughtered in the media and giving up a point is amateur in comparison. That is the basis as to why brolly's comments were so unfair in my opinion. Make no mistake, brolly is fully aware of the above, he is a student of the game and very tactically aware. In all honesty, if I can see it then so can he.


I think it could be argued that perhaps Brolly was biased in his comments before the final, as he seemed to only concentrate on Mayo. However as was stated by a number of posters, Donegal have not exactly gotten a fair go by the media since McGuinness' appointment.

They have, but then again people have had a chance to go over what has been said about donegal and decide. These last minute revelations about mayo and then onto throw-in are designed to mislead.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 08/01/2013 17:54:34    1315484

08/01/2013 16:54:25
TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 5434

1315449 Rua, I accept that o'se is entitled to his opinion. My own personal view is that we should try to stop it in the game, Im sure you have one also. My point is regarding the interest of fairness of such articles. I think Culann raises the point about critisism of amateur players, and I say they should be criticised if they deserve it. However my issue is that when a pundit criticises one group, and ignores the same behaviour of another group, on the eve of the two teams meeting that goes beyond the interest of journalism, and into the realm of abusing ones position to purposely misrepresent the facts. If he wanted to write an article on the subject then write one about them both, particularly when both actively used such tactics, as the article I provided displays. I ask you, what would motivate him to just select 1 of them?

__________

I would agree that there may have been a hint of mischief for what ever reason in Brollys comment. For every balanced pundit opinion or columnist article I'm sure you will find two that are less objective. Maybe there are pundits that court controversary by leaning to the extreme, Brolly and Spillane being the case in point.
I could also pull out articles from the jorunalists where opinion has swayed from one extreme to the other. e.g Refer to the above article by O Sé and one that he wrote in the aftermath of the Donegal v Kerry game.

Brolly for whatever reason does seem to like to be mischievous when it comes to Mayo - I recall previous derisory comments about their Croke Park record. There are also plenty examples where Kerry(Gooch fans) for example might have just cause to take offence from his comments
At the same time I would be of the view that Spillane was OTT in his comments on Donegal and is blind on any tactics/cynics that Kerry engage in. However I think this issue here is more the personalities of the pundits rather than any particular RTE bias. It is quite clear that RTE live sports strategy is to offer something more controversoal that the bland offferings from the Beeb/Sky/UTV and thats reflected in the George Hooks, Eamon Dunphys and Spillanes and Brollys of this world.

I don't think its bias - but would sympathise that your example of OTT punditry was at a more pertinent point in the season than say Spillane having a go at Donegals MOM versus Antrim in a preliminary round.

However I would expect that if Donegal had got over the line against Dublin in 2011, the hypothetical media coverage pleading on Kerry to save the Beautiful game would have been tenfold what Moran is complaining about.

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 08/01/2013 17:59:09    1315490

rRua, I accept that o'se is entitled to his opinion. My own personal view is that we should try to stop it in the game, Im sure you have one also. My point is regarding the interest of fairness of such articles. I think Culann raises the point about critisism of amateur players, and I say they should be criticised if they deserve it. However my issue is that when a pundit criticises one group, and ignores the same behaviour of another group, on the eve of the two teams meeting that goes beyond the interest of journalism, and into the realm of abusing ones position to purposely misrepresent the facts. If he wanted to write an article on the subject then write one about them both, particularly when both actively used such tactics, as the article I provided displays. I ask you, what would motivate him to just select 1 of them?
themaster mayo


Its quite similar to the way you criticize other teams for so-called cynical play themaster,
and then choose to ignore it when Mayo do the same thing!
There's nothing like good auld hypocrisy!
TheGateKeeper Tyrone

Reading not a strong point?
Themaster mayo

My reading is just fine themaster! We are all still waiting for you to condemn the
cynical/negative/dark-arts tactics employed by Mayo in last years AI series.
You can't dodge it forever lad!

TheGateKeeper (Tyrone) - Posts: 2843 - 08/01/2013 18:01:27    1315491

Every county has been insulted by one of these pundits at one stage or another down the years. I don't know why people take them so seriously. To suggest that the referee was influenced by something Joe Brolly said in the build up is nonsense.

beir_bua (Kildare) - Posts: 746 - 08/01/2013 18:05:42    1315495

RE: TheMaster

Fair enough; the first question was a tongue in cheek reference. I was trying to show is that he was using his emotion to galvinise his previous points about FRC rule changes.

The three red card incidents for me were; McHugh - round the neck, O'Connor - Striking actions & the 2nd hit on Lacey. I agree that by the very definition of the word they could be interpreted as not being cynical nevertheless they were not the most honest of tackles where I felt the intent was calculated.

When Paddy Heaney starts to use different statistics to make a point doubt "25 deliberate fouls" without referencing the number on the opposing team, then ,as you eloquently put it, it has no relevance at all. Has Brolly any relevance?

To do something over and over again, in my view, could be seen as cynicism and what was done nearing the end of the AI semi against Dublin could be viewed as being blatant. Moreover, the fact that in some of our games we had a small number of fouls committed in our scoring zone Vs fouls committed outside; I would attribute this directly at the brilliant defending we did in our back line all year and it is something that is often overlooked by a 'system'. I personally don't give much credibility to Cassidy.

Paddy Heaney's article is hardly the most conclusive piece of writing, nothing hardly ever is for that matter not unless every idea or concept is referenced.

Yes I agree, it almost certainly is never nice to have these things said but we both know these types of comments will continue from all types of media. Regardless whether they are right or wrong.

DL17 (Donegal) - Posts: 86 - 08/01/2013 18:27:21    1315506

Well I wonder why Joe Brolly expected tactical fouling from Mayo? Oh, perhaps he saw the semi final against Dublin. I wonder why the issue of replacing players on yellow cards came in this winter? Surely not as a result of the Mayo-Dublin match!

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 08/01/2013 18:39:08    1315511

Culann
County: Dublin
Posts: 1389


I'll respevct yout opinion of Brolly but disagree. I think he is god entertainment and gives good strong opinions. What is your opinion on what Brolly had to say about Mayo in the aftermath of the Dublin V Mayo game? Do you think Horan is right to come out whinging about what Brolly said - if that is fact the reason he has come out.

My opinion of Brolly's analysis, not Brolly himself. Tackle the ball not the man! Having read the piece he was probably right about Mayo v Dublin but if I was in the Mayo camp I would have felt aggrieved that he acknowledged similarities between the two teams but then went on to describe Mayo as "tactical foulers" and Donegal as "hard tacklers". And yes if Horan feels this had an influence he has a responsibility to protect the best interests of his team. I feel sorry for him, he's a shrewd operator but between injuries and withdrawls last year must have been frustrating and to come so close despite it all, heartbreaking. Best of luck to him next year.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 08/01/2013 18:46:31    1315518

For years Mayo were considered to have a soft centre, Fair play to them to play some heavy hits. Always the bridemaid never the bride .

kerryrowz (Kerry) - Posts: 833 - 08/01/2013 19:02:59    1315524

Horans clearly not accepting any blame at all for the loss to Donegal. and its a bit cringing watching him say that hes not sure if some pundits comments may have affected the outcome,
fair play yew tree .talking a bit of sense.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 08/01/2013 19:08:40    1315529

That interview wasn't very wise and so unlike of James Horan was in done on Miami beach with a few drinks in hand? Mayo have got where they got over the last two years by been written off does Horan want the favourites tag? looks like the expectation levels will be huge on Mayo this year how will they handle that? the media will probably build them up to bring them down.

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 4084 - 08/01/2013 19:19:00    1315534

dont know where horan is coming from, the fact that te media left Mayo alone ,should have given then a great chance to come in under the radar and should have been a Managers delight, maybe its horan himself that slipped up last Sept .

culmore (None) - Posts: 1398 - 08/01/2013 19:23:12    1315536

Horan reckons Mayo still haven't perform to 60% of their true potential? as outsider looking i think Mayo have somewhat exceeded expectations! after losing to Longford (Div 4 at the time) and Sligo they have reached the semi final and All Ireland final the expectations will be huge in 2013 more often than not the only way is down from here.

Horan thought Mayo should have won the final v Donegal? Mayo fought well to give Donegal a game but i think most would agree Mayo never looked like winning it and i doubt many Mayo fans walking out of Croke park felt they should have won it.

Giving the media stick isn't smart that's music to their ears. Alex Ferguson in his first few years at United was having bad things written about himself and his team he use to ask Matt Busby what should i do? don't read it he was told and do the talking on the pitch.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3655 - 08/01/2013 20:00:45    1315553

Listen i dont think its a case of Mayo not getting the respect they deserve. I think Mayo are are good side and wish them well but i honestly dont think Horan is that tacticlly aware. He comes out now with this tripe in an article and it just looks like he is lookin for excuses for his own lack of tactical knowledge. I think hes great at orgainsing but any manager to have the arrongance to say that he got his match up right on the all-ireland final is crazy.

DLlegends (Donegal) - Posts: 503 - 08/01/2013 20:11:33    1315564

Well I just read the full transcript of the interview there in the western people and I have to say its not as bad as the snippets and dramatic headline given on a national paper and other media outlets. Goes to show how the media can hype things up. Il still stand by what I said earlier though and it really shouldn't have been said. And the interview was actually given before Christmas at James home, and not on the beach in Miami as one poster suggested.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11651 - 08/01/2013 20:29:49    1315577

Hmmm, need to clear any leaves out of the gutter this weekend and might get a new handle for one of the bedroom doors that has come loose and maybe see what patio furniture they have for the new year while Im in Woodies too!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 08/01/2013 20:41:22    1315584

And yet before the game all the talk was Mayo were delighted with the lack of coverage and that the donegal publicity and hype would blow up in our faces.

Perhaps Horan should have been less concerned with the media and more concerned with who was marking Michael Murphy.

Champions 2012.

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1075 - 08/01/2013 21:05:58    1315599