Tir Conaill Abu
County: Donegal

Well Mayo may have tries every tactic but we know exactly what Donegal's tactics are since Cassidy spilled the beans: Abuse your opponent,

Foul every time to stop moves at source and take out the opponents best players.

For 2012 the big change was only 11 instead of 13 behing the ball !!!!!

KELF (Kildare) - Posts: 775 - 15/01/2013 13:47:17    1318624

KELF

The big change as you call it was that in 2012 Donegal had developed their system from 2011....Result....All Ireland Champions.

Still a wee bit sore from the quarters in 2011 are we?

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1677 - 15/01/2013 14:04:14    1318637

Culann, the facts indicate that every word of your post in wrong. Restating it wont change that im afraid.

It is worth noting that not a single donegal poster has tried to claim that they were not also cynical lasy year. Fair play to them for that. We all seen mayo try to be cynical against dublin, we all seen dublin do it against laois and indeed donegal against kerry and mayo. Blindly denying its existance, in truth, means either you are so blinded by some childish bias that you have allowed it to affect your judgement, or you lack the basic football knowledge required to see it. Either way, those types are no help on this subject.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 15/01/2013 14:24:32    1318649

the facts in your opinion master doesnt mean they are facts...there is no doubt donegal were cynical last year as all good teams are..mayo on the otherhand however brought it to extreme levels which is the main point of what people are saying...im sure you will continue to dispute this but thats fine

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 15/01/2013 14:33:29    1318656

14/01/2013 21:41:45
KELF
County: Kildare
Posts: 539

1318421 So Brolly quotes the number of Mayo fouls & ignores the similar number by the opposition: Clear bias: Horan is correct to call him to order.

When Cassidy & Bogue revealed the planned cynical fouling, abuse & deliberate targetting of an opponent to be taken out: McGuinness bars both of them.

So most posters think Horan is wrong & McG right.

I dont

______________________
Maybe neither of them of are right - But there are times when you can afford to take the high moral ground and there are times when you can't.
McGuinness made his point at the exact moment that he could not be accused of making excuses - Horan has come out with a comment that suggests he has spent the last 15 weeks analysing what went wrong and QED the answer is Joe Brolly.

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 15/01/2013 14:41:35    1318669

ffgg
County: Longford
Posts: 2326

1318656 the facts in your opinion master doesnt mean they are facts...there is no doubt donegal were cynical last year as all good teams are..mayo on the otherhand however brought it to extreme levels which is the main point of what people are saying...im sure you will continue to dispute this but thats fine

You say something to her and she responds by rebuting something that you didn't say (I said to her above that I felt Maigh Eo were on the minds of the people who came up with the black card proposal and she responded by talking about the 30 metre free for sesent and the mark - and then claimed he was speaking about the black card rule). Trust me, its best just leaving her with her own opinion and telling her she is right. That or you'll just keep going around in circles with her.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 15/01/2013 15:51:50    1318714

What part of it is opinion ffgg? The foul count that was used as a cane for mayo in the semi final was the same as donegal's foul count in the other semi. That is a fact, not my opinion. In fact in every other round, donegal had a higher foul count than mayo, including the final. Again, not opinion, fact. Furthermore, although they had a lower foul count, mayo conceded more scores from frees than donegal did, which would indicate that donegal used controlled fouling to a higher degree than mayo who were 'tactically' fouling guys inside scoring distances. The most fouled players in the final were mayo's midfielders, 2 players known for their good fielding ability. To top it off we are already aware that donegal bring tactical fouling to a very exact science via kevin cassidy's revelations. These are facts, not opinion. The reality is it is your own opinion that mayo brought tactical fouling to a higher extreme than anyone else, something that none of the above facts indicate. So there you go ffgg, facts aplenty. I am interested to hear your rebuttal of these undeniable facts. What facts do you have to prove the above stats are inaccurate? Because if you were to have none then it would raise questions around what exactly you were using to structure this opinion of yours

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 15/01/2013 17:07:16    1318748

RUNRUA

QED he blamed Brolly for the loss of the All Ireland Final? not at all my friend. Read the article which Horan first mentioned RTE bias. He quite clearly stated where they lost the All Ireland final. Its in the second post on this thread, posted by myself. Read the full article and you will see, he states how bad turnovers etc lead to the crucial scores for Donegal. James Horan who is a process Engineer, uses Process Engineering principles on the GAA field. He analysed the All Ireland, saw the process flaws and will implement process improvement techniques to correct these flaws for the 2013 season where we will win our rightly earned All Ireland final.

YEWTREE

Having read this thread for the first time since I posted I must express how disappointed I am with your comments. Fairplay to the Master for fighting the corner.

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 15/01/2013 17:56:43    1318774

where is your evidence master is it again mere opinion and bias?...i have no affiliation to either county and from what i have seen over the course of the 2 years i feel mayo have been more cynical..lots of the stuff they do isnt called for frees such as the outrageous amounts of 3rd man tackles they do...i would see the kerry game last year as a much better example of mayos cynical play than dublin game this year as they got away with a lot more in the kerry game...i dont see anything wrong with this type of play to be honest..at end of day its all about winning..mayo let teams run all over them in the past on the big days so its good to see them ensuring this is less likely to happen

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 15/01/2013 18:13:45    1318783

ffgg, it is in the articles that were posted earlier in the thread. Dont get me wrong, Im not saying that mayo didnt do their share of it, of course they did, the point is they were supposed to be the worst exponents of it, when the foul counts indicate that they in fact were well behind donegal. All you have to do is look at the areas donegal were giving the frees away in, how many cards they got and how many scores came from it to see that their system made mayo's look amateur. Yet it was mayo that took all the flak, and brolly made sure of this. The very fact that mayo's play was obvious and donegal's wasnt, in spite of the foul counts would indicate who has done more preparation. Again, Im not faulting donegal, just making points about their play.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 15/01/2013 21:49:39    1318902

Fair play to Horan for sticking up for his team. I still find it a bit strange that he says he didnt get his match-ups wrong. He is right to say that it should be stopped at source but if it isnt, as happens in every game then you better have your match ups right. Why did he put Cafferky on Murphy in the second half?

In my opinion the difference between the Mayos tackling and Donegals was that throughout the championship Donegal genuinely made an attempt to tackle properly most of the time. Sure there can be mistimed tackles now and again as there is in every game. Mayo on the other hand systematically pulled and dragged all game against Down and Dublin, there was no genuine attempt to play the ball. Brolly is entitled to his opinion as is Mc Hale and Brady who were both on radio stations before the final giving out about Donegals system. Whats the difference?

Roll on the championship and we will see Tyrone in Ballybofey!! Hopefully!!

DLlegends (Donegal) - Posts: 503 - 16/01/2013 10:05:33    1318934

DLlegends
In my opinion the difference between the Mayos tackling and Donegals was that throughout the championship Donegal genuinely made an attempt to tackle properly most of the time. Sure there can be mistimed tackles now and again as there is in every game. Mayo on the other hand systematically pulled and dragged all game against Down and Dublin, there was no genuine attempt to play the ball. Brolly is entitled to his opinion as is Mc Hale and Brady who were both on radio stations before the final giving out about Donegals system. Whats the difference?

Well said. There are people on here mixing up and not differenciating between synical fouling and fouling that occurs as a result of genuinely trying to win a ball fairly. The same people are doing this and comparing the two types of foul as 'factual' synical fouls!

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 16/01/2013 10:51:55    1318964

You took the words right out of my mouth Culann. Not all fouls are cynical. A few posters on here need to understand this

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 16/01/2013 11:20:53    1318986

Some of you boys must spend all the live long day on Hoganstand. Do you get any sort of commission?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9822 - 16/01/2013 11:44:06    1319000

gotmilk
You took the words right out of my mouth Culann. Not all fouls are cynical. A few posters on here need to understand this

Joe Brolly for one... He quoted the number of fouls in the mayo-dublin game. This is what was used to make the case. It is only logical to quote the same stat for the other semi final. The above is true, but then watch the all ireland final again and it is by a distance donegal who carry out the most cynical fouls. Grabbing hold of a guy when he fetches a ball, and just holding onto him over and over again if far more cynical than fouling a guy 20 yards in front of the posts and getting a card, is it not?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 16/01/2013 12:42:20    1319034

You are all just saying the same things over and over again.
I dont think you're going to convince the other here

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 16/01/2013 12:56:23    1319044

Depends whats way you look at it. I didnt see too many Donegal players pulling and hauling while I did see Mayo players trying to take Donegal players out of the game, namely Lacey and Mc Hugh. Cynical??? I wont mention the punch into Murphys face for the last play of the game!! I didnt see any Donegal player trying to take a Mayo man out intentionally.

DLlegends (Donegal) - Posts: 503 - 16/01/2013 12:56:40    1319045

gotmilk
County: Fermanagh
Posts: 1074

1318986
You took the words right out of my mouth Culann. Not all fouls are cynical. A few posters on here need to understand this


Exactly... I would argue that the reason for Mayo's high foul count in the final stages against Dublin was desperation rather than tactical. But instead of going a step backwards and questioning why Mayo faded so badly (I have my own theories and I think Horan had a pre-planned solution for the final, which failed miserably) Brolly went for the soft target.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 16/01/2013 13:43:16    1319090

DLlegends
Depends whats way you look at it. I didnt see too many Donegal players pulling and hauling while I did see Mayo players trying to take Donegal players out of the game, namely Lacey and Mc Hugh. Cynical??? I wont mention the punch into Murphys face for the last play of the game!! I didnt see any Donegal player trying to take a Mayo man out intentionally.

But those fouls were blatent fouls, if you had a system of those types of fouls throughout a game you would end up with half your team sent off, what kind of system is that? I would consider both of those daft fouls that worked to the detriment of the team and so were in fact a disaster for any type of systemic fouling that mayo supposedly had planned. If you compare that to donegal's type of fouls, they were always low impact infractions far out the field. No booking, no score from the free, no hope of ever scoring a goal. This is no coincidence. When a fetch was made in front of Rory Kavanagh he just caught his opponent around the waist and held onto him, no attempt on the ball whatsoever, and he done it over and over. That is systemic fouling in its most cynical form, the punishment is the absolute minimum and you choke the life out of the opposition. Furthermore, that wasnt just the final, that was all year.

Roundball, what is your theory?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 16/01/2013 14:35:09    1319128

Those two fouls mentioned were tactical fouls, and cynical. After Keegan had tackled mc Hugh he turned around after the booking and gave a sly nod and wink to a Mayo player. Vaughan late tackle on Lacey was the same also. Your not trying to tell me that this wasnt preplanned? I have no problem with teams trying to roughen the opposition up, but dont cry about it if it doesnt work!

Im not saying that Donegal didnt pull jerseys durinig games now and again, every team does, but they did try and play the ball most of the time. The games before the final Mayo made no attempt to play the ball most of the time.

Mayo systematiclly went out in the Dublin game to pull jerseys and then stand in front of the free taker. Now every team does this now and again but not to the lengths Mayo went to in the semi. The Donegal v Cork was one of the cleanest games all year.

DLlegends (Donegal) - Posts: 503 - 16/01/2013 15:23:39    1319176