TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 5481
. Could anyone see such things happening in any other sport? People are getting caught up in the mayo-donegal aspect but we need to realise that there is a bigger picture here. It might be mayo-donegal this time, it could be anyone else the next time. This kind of thing isnt acceptable in the game, no matter who is playing .

Are you that naive. it happens in all sports where pundits have favourites they would like to see win, read any ex players(who are now pundits) in soccer talk about their teams and its usually with blinkers on. aussie rules is the same.
Journalists write lazy columns with no research all the time. journalists also write columns with hidden agendas also. doesnt make it right, but to suggest this is new and brolly has that much power is crazy,
what would you like to happen. brolly banned fronm penning anything about mayo or gaa in general and in future pundits monitored to see if they are trying to influence the ref,

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 14/01/2013 20:58:19    1318405

So Brolly quotes the number of Mayo fouls & ignores the similar number by the opposition: Clear bias: Horan is correct to call him to order.

When Cassidy & Bogue revealed the planned cynical fouling, abuse & deliberate targetting of an opponent to be taken out: McGuinness bars both of them.

So most posters think Horan is wrong & McG right.

I dont

KELF (Kildare) - Posts: 775 - 14/01/2013 21:41:45    1318421

Again AthCliath, you miss the subtly of the point. You mention former players talking about their own team. When did joe brolly ever play for donegal? The reality is brolly has a major role in the gaa. He is one of the leading guys, like an andy gray, in fact probably even bigger because of the fact that gaa is in this country alone.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 14/01/2013 21:57:33    1318431

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 5482

1318431 Again AthCliath, you miss the subtly of the point. You mention former players talking about their own team. When did joe brolly ever play for donegal? The reality is brolly has a major role in the gaa. He is one of the leading guys, like an andy gray, in fact probably even bigger because of the fact that gaa is in this country alone.

Brolly slated Donegal in 2011,
In 2012 Brolly was facinated with them, ever since he watched them train, because of his columns and predictions which he was getting right as regards Donegal, a Donegal victory would give him more kudos, and justify all his reasoning for their wins, he got it right to be fair.
It boils back to his spats with Spillane ,he used mayo as an example and cork as to why Kerry won easy allirelands ,and since then has at times unjustly criticised them .
Brolly is like Dunphy , though to be fair its better watching or reading his columns than the neutral pundits on sky or bbc who would bore you to death with their back slapping.
Horans well able to look after himself and its all part of the game now, Horan is secretly smiling that this is out their for debate,
Roll on the championship for more fun and games, im sure a few more managers noses will be put out of joint by the pat and joe show.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 15/01/2013 08:36:27    1318435

ffgg
County: Longford
Posts: 2319

1318180 where is brollys article?

It was in the Title, the sports supplement that goes out with the Mail on Sunday. There is a chance the same article will be in Gaelic Life this week.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 15/01/2013 09:02:28    1318438

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 5482

Culann, maybe you could just quote the bit that explains why he ignored one cynical system over another and how that doesnt equate to biased analysis, it will save us all some time

Get a copy of last weeks Title. I wouldn't know where to find a link and I threw the paper out on Sunday evening so I wouldn't really be in a position to quote accurately. And, no, I'm not rooting through the bin. There is a good chance it will be in this weeks Gaelic Life. Its worth reading. He backs up his claims very well.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 15/01/2013 09:07:21    1318439

I think RTE were dead right to point out Mayo's cynical tactics. I was over the moon seeing them knock out the Dubs but it was terrible to see such cynical play from a team not known for it, win fair and square.

I also believed RTE gave Donegal more coverage because the whole county was supporting the team long before the all-ireland final. Mayo on the other hand all jumped on the bandwagon when they beat dublin. there was a paltry crowd at their quarter final v down this year.

BettystownRoyal (Meath) - Posts: 3353 - 15/01/2013 09:43:47    1318455

gotmilk
County: Fermanagh
Posts: 1069

1318023
Anyone else think Horan might be trying to create a siege mentality in Mayo? Take a look at succesful sides. United, Donegal, any Mourhinio team. Siege mentality seems to work.

All this talk about Brolly V Horan takes away from what I thought was the most revealing part of the interview, namely the naming of individual Mayo players as being culpable in Murphy's goal as opposed to his own mismatch which was so obvious, Martin Carney commented on it in the first minute.
Successful managers would never hang their players out to dry like this & if a siege mentality is what he is trying to build then this is a strange way of going about it

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 15/01/2013 09:47:54    1318459

AthCliath, that is all well and good if mayo were the only guilty party, or even the most guilty party. He criticised mayo for something that donegal are even better at. He stated that mayo should be watched for such antics and commandeered what was supposed to be a fair analysis of both teams to spout propaganda about one team over the other. What about donegal? They were guilty of the exact same thing, only in their case it happened in every match not just for 20 minutes in 1 match when half their starting team was off the field.
As regards his comments about donegal the year before, he was right, they had 13 men behind the ball at all times and lost because of it. He has also slated mayo in the past, but the reality is neither of those incidents are relevent to the very specific point that I have stated and you keep avoiding. Address the above.

Culann, I read his piece in gaelic life, it offers no explanations towards the above. He states mayo were using cynical tactics, again I ask, what about donegal? What about the timing? What about fair analysis?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 15/01/2013 10:05:37    1318477

But Master he was adressing what he said. It is clear he doesn't regard Dún na nGall any where near as synical or dirty as Maigh Eo. I would share that opinion if that is his opinion. Dún na nGall, the Dubs, Ciarraí, Corcaigh were nowhere near as synical this year or any year as Maigh Eo were last year. Despite what you are writing here. I'll say it again and I said it at the time of the All Irel;and final, fair play Joe Brolly.

Maigh Eo were the tipping point for the rule changes that are inevitable. I would be pretty sure Maigh Eo were at the backs of people's minds regarding the black cards rule.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 15/01/2013 10:24:03    1318486

I would be more interested in him addressing what he didnt say culann. I dont see how mayo can be more cynical than donegal when mayo foul guys 25 yards out in front of the posts and donegal foul everything that moves out on the halfway line, block the quick free and get everyone back behind the ball. But please, enlighten me... I mean we already had a player confirm the lengths they were going to in the cynical stakes, who was later expelled from the squad for doing so, but maybe you can confirm otherwise? Another article in a newpaper in the bin maybe?

As regards your thinking on the rule changes, if they were done with mayo in mind then the idea of bringing the ball forward 30 yards would put them 5 yards over the end line. Similarly, the mark couldnt have been brought in to stop mayo, as mccauley gave an exhibition of fetching against mayo last year and wasnt fouled once. On the other hand barry moran and aidan o'shea were the most fouled players in the AI final, out around the halfway line of course. Interestingly not one of those fouls resulted in a card, and I think 1 of them resulted in a score. The same thing happened against kerry, cork and tyrone. But of course, those rule changes were brought in with mayo in the forefront of people's minds! Again I point out, Im at no point blaming or faulting donegal, I am just pointing out some of the flaws in culann's perception. I dont blame you culann, you arent employed to analyse the game, it isnt your fault you, frankly, lack the tools to see it. But brolly doesnt lack the tools, he is well able to see it, but chose not to mention it when broaching the subject. In other words, he purposely analysed the teams poorly to give anvantage to one side, or at least attempted to.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 15/01/2013 10:52:22    1318505

Look Master,

All you are doing here is misrepresenting my points deliberately (I said the thinking behind the black cards and you start rabbiting on about other rule changes etc.)and trying to take the discussion around in circles by refusing to recognise the fact that people don't see that the cynism employed by Maigh Eo last year is not comparable to any other counties. Its not going to work with me. I only bothered to read a small bit of what you wrote because it was predictable where you were going with it.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 15/01/2013 11:20:51    1318519

Culann

Look Master,
All you are doing here is misrepresenting my points deliberately (I said the thinking behind the black cards and you start rabbiting on about other rule changes etc.)

What are you talking about? Black cards are rule changes! The rules I referred to were the black card offences. You said that they were brought in with mayo in mind, I simply examained and expanded on this statement. If this is what you believe then you should be able to counter those points without any issue, that is just straightt forward. If you cannot then that indicates you cannot back up your earlier statement, plain and simple.


trying to take the discussion around in circles by refusing to recognise the fact that people don't see that the cynism employed by Maigh Eo last year is not comparable to any other counties

Multiple posters accept donegal also use similar tactics, as do many journalists, whose articles have been posted here. The stats also back this up. So basically, what you are saying is you dont see it as comparable, but the stats prove that it is. Indeed Cassidy proved that donegal had a cynical system in place, an eye-witness account. The above hasnt a leg to stand on.


Its not going to work with me. I only bothered to read a small bit of what you wrote because it was predictable where you were going with it.

That probably explains why you are stating points that have been long-since proved inaccurate on this thread. Also, if you are going to respond to someone directly, the least you can do is read what they have said, otherwise why are you responding at all? It can only be assumed that you want to repond to the poster and not the post when you are not reading the post in the first place. As for being predicable, how long before you bring up the mayo dublin game again, to grind that axe another little bit? It is a poor reflection on yourself as a poster that you cannot see around this to the bigger picture of what of what brolly has done and what thta could lead to down the line. Mayo, Donegal, Dublin, it doesnt matter who, this dishonesty shouldnt be acceptable in our game.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 15/01/2013 11:48:16    1318534

Good man Master!

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 15/01/2013 11:55:37    1318540

Joe Brolly is a decent man with good and bad points of view. I feel sometimes he says things just to get a reaction.

kerry74 (Kerry) - Posts: 1354 - 15/01/2013 11:57:15    1318542

' I feel sometimes he says things just to get a reaction.'

Spot on and Horan has played right into his hands by making an issue of it

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 15/01/2013 12:15:09    1318560

Culann
Good man Master!

You know Culann, trying to be witty is far more effective when your entire argument hasnt just been picked apart sentence by sentence and shown to be inaccurate on every single point.

Just for again...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 15/01/2013 12:21:23    1318564

It will all be ok in September sure when the mighty Mayo win Sam!!!! People talk about Donegal getting more coverage than Mayo coming up to the final last year yet every Mayo man I know was telling me at the time that this is exactly what Mayo wanted, a low key build up, fans staying quiet, buntings on hold, we have it right this year and we're gonna land Sam. I say enjoy the thing lads and the players will take care of the football.

In all seriousness though I think that Mayo have just tried every approach to win a final in both preparation and tactics and none have worked so now they are trying to use outside influences as a reason that they didn't win. Maybe the biggest issue is the one that they are ignoring, maybe they just didn't have the players to win any of the finals they were beat in!! A Mayo friend of mine reckons the only final they should have won was against Meath and in every other one they were beat by a better team, maybe Horan should accept this and move on!!

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1677 - 15/01/2013 12:56:35    1318583

The piece by Tommy Conlon appeared to be very spiteful and as determined to stick the boot into Brolly and the Ulster GAA scene in general; that will come as NO surprise whatsover because the same media group have spent several decades attacking and vilifying Nordies, especially the Nationalist and GAA community here. Conlon calls Brolly lightweight and not to be taken seriously and that from a 'sports' journalist who cannot even get the two teams in the Ulster final correct?? Furthermore he accused Armagh and Tyrone of being the originators of cyncism completely ignoring the Dublin/Kerry battles of the 70's; the Cork/Meath boxing matches of the 80's; the Meath/Mayo slugfests of the 90's and Meath battering Ulster sides all over the pitch during this era as well. I don't remember Conlon or his newspaper group writing articles condemning Spillane and others for 'puke football' bias, continually attacking Ulster football. and stereotyping everyone north of Dundalk as dirty, cyncial so and so's.
If awards were handed out for hypocrisy and double standards the Southern media would have sideboards coming down with them. The fact is that this media group and many Southern sports/political elements just don't like educated, smart upstart Nordies with attitude and opinion and Joe Brolly is the epitome of this. The Southern Establishment is more used to dealing with a supine, compliant, invertebrate population who roll over and do what their told and they can't handle Nordies giving it back to them. Brolly gave an opinion about Mayo and upset a few people just as he has done in the past to his own county, Donegal, Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry, Cork etc. Tommy Conlon says that Brolly ignored Donegal and never criticised them. Well if my memory serves me well he absolutely tore Donegal apart in 2011, especially after the Dublin loss, because of their style of play and negativity and continued that well into last year. No, this is not about criticising Mayo, this is about the usual suspects who don't like anything or anyone from the North and within the Ulster GAA. They have their own agendas and James Horan and Mayo would be better off dusting themselves down, getting a few better forwards and get back into it like Jimmy McGuinness and Donegal did last year. Leave the moaning and whinging to Kerry and their media apologists.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9819 - 15/01/2013 13:06:22    1318590

Tir Conaill Abu
County: Donegal
Posts: 479

In all seriousness though I think that Mayo have just tried every approach to win a final in both preparation and tactics and none have worked so now they are trying to use outside influences as a reason that they didn't win. Maybe the biggest issue is the one that they are ignoring, maybe they just didn't have the players to win any of the finals they were beat in!! A Mayo friend of mine reckons the only final they should have won was against Meath and in every other one they were beat by a better team, maybe Horan should accept this and move on!!

Good post Tír Chonaill. They are clutching at straws and are running out of excuses for not being good enough. I don't care if this is petty or not but I hope they win nothing for at least another 50/60 years. They snubbed CLG Nua Eabhrac this year, they brought synism in the game to a new level and now they are crying when Brolly quite rightly highlighted this synisism. Brolly did his job properly and highlighted this. I believe this did have an effect on the final in so far as two Maigh Eo players were booked in the first few minutes of the final but can anyone genuinely argue that these cards were not warranted. They got away with it against the Dubs but thanks be to Brolly not in the final.

People arguing here saying that other teams were as bad as Maigh Eo are talking nonsense. Dún na nGall were not synical this year. They played good football and defended well in packs. That defence was not too pretty on the eye but was hugely successfull. They were not deliberate fouls that they were giving away but fouls given away due to intense tackling. Under the proposed new rules the Dún na nGall fouls would not come under the fouls for black cards. Maigh Eo's would. That is the difference.

Fair play Joe Brolly. You have my total and utter respect.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 15/01/2013 13:12:42    1318593