That's true he was a selector my bad.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 17/11/2012 17:34:16    1299049

fgg
County: Longford
Posts: 1629

1298991
cant agree with you...pillars team nothing like armagh..pillars team never beat a top side...they lost to mayo in 06 sure they would have been annihilated had they reached the final..armagh in their time either won the yoke got to the final or lost to the eventual winners each time bar 2004 which was one of the bigger gaa upsets...i just dont pass much heed to the roll of honour unless its kerry..its false enough in modern times

how though they were identical to armagh domintated their province but ended up lossing to eventual winners you said armagh beaten by eventual winners so were dublin if you look back since 2002 to 2010 dublin were beaten by the winners every year apart from 2003 and 2006 and both sides them years got to the final.
i dont agree at all they would have been anihiliated if had of beat mayo i believe dublin would have won the final that was the year they were playing their best under caffrey and with going into the final would have been simliar to 2011 they would have had nothing to lose sure look how close the semi final was in 2007 against kerry and we werent playing as well that year.you dont pass much heed to the roll of honour unless its kerry why kerry they won plenty of their all irelands before the war also why does only kerry matter they have 36 and dublin have 23 overall the next is galway on 9 so both are well ahead of the rest in fairness.
and dublin have won 9 all irelands since the war and lost 8 finals so you can hardly say havent done much since the war we have actualy won as many as galway have i total and they are third in the order overall.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 17/11/2012 17:40:50    1299053

kerry are still dominating...dublin are one of big sides obviously....galway are not....all irelands since the 80s or so are much harder to win due to ulster being there as it takes exceptional sides like tyrone and kerry to win continously the 2 in a row has only been achieved once since cork done it..... t....how were they identical armagh won the all ireland dublin did not....armagh had about 4 games v tyrone over the space of 2 seasons where there was very little between them..dublin just drew with tyrone and got hammered the next day...dublin would have been destroyed in that final in 2006 v kerry how would they have had a hope in hell..nobody was prepared for donaghy that year..dublin were mainly hype that year sure they barely escaped longford with a win...dublin lost to mayo...kerry annihilating mayo in that final was no fluke...just a far superior side...kerry didnt play that well in 2007 but still won...armagh were obviously a better side than that dublin team..who did dublin beat tell me name me one good side?

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 17/11/2012 17:56:21    1299057

Everyone saying Mayo won't get an easy run again next year? Why not? They're deservedly clear favourites for Connacht. If Donegal win Ulster and they avoid Cork/Kerry in the quarters and they'd rightly fancy their chances against anyone else.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 17/11/2012 18:17:26    1299066

17/11/2012 18:17:26
doublehop
County: Kildare
Posts: 2492

1299066
Everyone saying Mayo won't get an easy run again next year? Why not? They're deservedly clear favourites for Connacht. If Donegal win Ulster and they avoid Cork/Kerry in the quarters and they'd rightly fancy their chances against anyone else.

Mayo are away to Galway next year and you never know what they will be like. If Mayo win that game i would like to think we can give a better account than Leitrim did this year. Donegal will do keep it going after getting over the line this year and their manager will be busy with Celtic.

Cork,Kerry,Dublin have plenty to prove next year and i think the winner will be one of them.

ispeakwisdom (Roscommon) - Posts: 2487 - 17/11/2012 20:34:24    1299114

One thing for certain is that no one outside Div One has a chance.. Div two teams might win a provincial title. Im afraid the rest are also rans.

sedico (Kildare) - Posts: 1682 - 17/11/2012 21:00:08    1299128

up_donegal
County: Donegal
Posts: 638

1298828 It'll be very, very hard... but I'd hope we could retain it!!! I fancy us for the treble ulster, if we're going to be stopped in Ulster it will be the first round.

HA HA HA as long as donegal dont meet the dubs they might be still in with a shout,all joking aside after a savage year of performing like that its hard to maintain that intensity and the hunger level just mighten be there after winning after winning sam the next level is to do the back to back so id say donegals motivation will be that BACK TO BACK titles....

dubbydave. (Dublin) - Posts: 3927 - 17/11/2012 21:44:03    1299149

Jasus sedico I agree with you. And when you look at some of div 1 teams this and last year some of them haven't a snowballs chance in hell either , the likes of kildare armagh and down will not win a all ire anytime soon. So we can agree on some things. See.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 17/11/2012 21:45:38    1299152

We're here debating who'll lift Sam next year. It got me thinking. Too much !

Donegal are, rightly, favourites. But will they lose some hunger, lose the appetite for training 12 times a week. Will McGuinness's Celtic job help or hinder the team? No matter. I think, 7 point lead after 11 minutes or not Donegal were never ever not going to beat us in the final. The 7 point lead gave them the cushion, they never had to goo out of their comfort zone, they were professional enough to go up the field and tack on scores if we got within 3 or 4 points of them. They'll win it in 2013.

Dublin hadn't the hunger this year. But that's not our fault that Dublin were off form when we played them. If we kept our heeads in the second half we should have given them a good beating. But it was bad form once Dublin were out for people to say that they won a soft All Ireland in 2011, just begrudgery. They beat none other than The Kingdom with a grandstand finish and I was shouting for them all the way that day. Forget about 2006 lads, that wasn't a great Dublin team although it included two, for me, of their most under-rated players, Jason Sherlock and Shane Ryan. Moving Ryan from midfield to half-back and then taking off was the losing of the match for ye. Whelan's discipline that day, like a few others, only inspired Mayo players to play better. Who knows if Dublin would have beaten Kerry in the final but I think they had some great players but were not a proper team until Gilroy lost some showboaters and made them a team. Possibly Gavin will bring some of their young players through in 2013 but they'll probably take longer to mature. Semis for them.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8496 - 18/11/2012 12:31:39    1299197

Part 2 !

Cork, Cork, Cork. We lost 2 League finals to that team, one hammered, the other well beaten but a strange change in tactic in 2nd half of not pressing players all over the pitch. Brolly was accused of disrespect when he said Kerry had shown little steel in big games once it was put up to them. I would say Brolly was mostly wrong but Cork are more likely to wilt when it's put up to them in Championship. A bit like Pillar's Dubs, many class players, not always playing as a team. Just 1 All Ireland won for such a talented team? Missing some of their top forwards last year they were beating us easily in 1st half. Then heads dropped and game over. If they were such a class team, even without 3 top forwars they should have beaten a young Mayo team out the gate. Had their chances against Donegal too, didn't take them. Somewhat similar to us in a way that playing Kerry in Croker Park in Championship didn't suit them! How good are they? Really? Quarter finalists. Possible winners with a new manager a better team ethic and renewed hunger.

Tyrone will be quarter-finalists, at least. Harte to get some of the old guard back and some young blood. Self-belief is never lacking in Tyrone.

Kerry, always great footballers, not always the best team ethic or self-belief. See aforementioned collapse in 2011 All Ireland Final. There's not many plus points to being hammered in All Ireland Finals by Kerry. Staying to the final whistle to marvel at their skills is probably tthe only one. But today skills alone will win you nothing. Conditioning, tactics, game management (cynical fouling, feigning injuries, subsitutions to waste time, etc) are part and pacel. Eamon Fitzmaurice will get them to the final.

I said earlier that Mayo will win. My heart was doing the typing. We should get to the semis with another midfielder, possibly 2 and at least 4 new forwards. People mentioning Andy Moran when he's not ven playing ball yet ???? He's one guy. We need options. All summer Dillon was the only decent forward we had. O'Connor is a free-taker. Varley ? No. Conroy? Was very surprised at how well he did. Maybe. McLoughlin is quality, but not a high scoring forward, a 7th defender. Docherty doesn't convince me, nor does Freeman but maybe someone can motivate them. Forget Mortimer before anyone suggests bringing him back.

As I've lived and will return to Maynooth I would love to see Kildare do well. How they'll be in Division 1 is anyone's guess. Johnny Doyle won't go on forever. Seanie Johnson is little compensation when Doyle finishes. They need some young talent coming through. Quarter finalists.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8496 - 18/11/2012 12:32:29    1299199

ffgg

how are kerry still dominating they havent won an all ireland in the last 3 years.ulster came good in the 60tys.tyrone didnt win the two in a row and its easier with a back door you get two chances in the one year.yes they won it once and dominated their province for the four years dublin may not have won the all ireland in 06 but dominated their province also and were beaten by eventual winners also.thats very wrong dublin and tyrone clashed alot over pillars time in league and championship battles that were great games they only beaten well one day by them in 2008.becuase we were playing great football in 06 had we of won the mayo game i believe they would have beat kerry that year look how close the 07 game was in the semi final and they were nowhere near as good the dublin team in 07 as 06.dublin were blowing teams away in 06 they were hitting golden spots in games that were massive purple pacthes,they played well within themselves against longford knowing they were always going to win that game it was never in doubt.even gave niall o shea a run at full back like.
becuase mayo lost the final does not mean anything mayo done the same this year too but you cannot say dublin v mayo in that semi in 06 did not produce some brilliant football just becuase mayo didnt perform in the final after.well they beat everybody except the eventual winners had they not have met them at quarters or semis would have made a few finals back then.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 18/11/2012 13:38:28    1299215

ah hill im not going to argue with you anymore if your not going to look at things objectively...dublin didnt beat one good team under pillar....no point continuing this unless you lose the bias....damn all between 06 dublin and 07 sure who did dublin beat in 06 laois offaly and westmeath was it?.....kerry were miles ahead of anybody in the country that year bar maybe cork who they beat by 6 points.how many all irelands have kerry won since 2000?..now your counting league games lord tyrone hammered dublin twice in the championship end of...your basing your whole argument just because dublin gave kerry a scare once when monaghan done the exact same thing in the previous round?.....lose the bias..no point continuing this

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 18/11/2012 14:53:09    1299234

Defo agree with Hill there, the 07 semi against Kerry was really the final of that year. Kerry hammered Cork out the gate in the final. But as I said the semi was the real final.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 18/11/2012 14:56:47    1299236

dublin were blowing teams away in pillars time because the teams they were playing were simply no good...hammering the likes of wexford westmeath offaly laois longford...then getting exposed v tyrone....and fairly similar team and tactics v kerry the year after...same story

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 18/11/2012 14:57:04    1299237

Championship be wide open again next year. Donegal Tyrone Dublin Mayo Cork Kerry all in with a shout. Even to pick semi finalists now would be hard Nostradamus couldn't do it.

hound (Meath) - Posts: 234 - 18/11/2012 17:53:38    1299331

ffgg

i am being objectively we are comparing armagh of 2002-06 and dublin of 2005-08 well with the exception of armaghs 1 all ireland win in 02 they were quite identical dominated their provinces and ended up both loosing to eventual winners.armagh also struggled against dublin in 02 and 03 if you think back they needed the post to help them beat dublin and get to that final and they needed dublin to blow a big lead after lyons took off the man of the match that day when we went down to 14 men and that was a very immature and badly managed dublin team in them two years.pillars dubs didnt win an all ireland yes but had they have not met tyrone in 2005 and kerry in 2007 would have made final both years and should have made final in 06 and that year i feel they would have won it.
you focus too much on who teams beat instead of how they play just look at kerry they only have to beat one good team to get to the quarter finals every year but i judge them on how well they are playing not their opposition.as for dublin of 06 and 07 been not much differant there was huge differance the mental scars from the mayo collapse had kicked in and were shown up further in 08 and 09.so now your changin it to 2000 that it counts from you started off with after the war then became after the 80tys now its since 2000 you cannot just decide things only become relevant from when you want.tyrone hammered dublin once in the championship in the last 17 years we beat them 3 times.theres no bias im just stating fact both pillars dubs and armagh where very simliar with armagh gaining the one all ireland.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 18/11/2012 21:25:04    1299483

ffgg
County: Longford
Posts: 1641

1299237
dublin were blowing teams away in pillars time because the teams they were playing were simply no good...hammering the likes of wexford westmeath offaly laois longford...then getting exposed v tyrone....and fairly similar team and tactics v kerry the year after...same story

pillar wasnt in charge in 2009 so your wrong there he only suffered one hammering 08.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 18/11/2012 21:26:34    1299484

yes i know i said fairly similar team..armagh winning the all ireland is quite a difference do you not think?you are not looking at it objectively armagh were obviously a better side than pillars look there is no point discussing it with you move on..we are completely off topic anyway but kerry have won 3-4 all irelands so they are still dominating well you could say the period has just ended as that team is past its peak now..anyway move on we are not going to agree

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 18/11/2012 21:38:59    1299491

dublin were hammered in 2005 by tyrone in the replay by the way so your wrong sorry

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 18/11/2012 21:39:30    1299492

for me the top 5 contenders for sam 2013 is and in no particular order dublin,mayo,donegal,kerry,cork...

dubbydave. (Dublin) - Posts: 3927 - 18/11/2012 21:44:58    1299496