yew_tree
County: Mayo
Posts: 4016

1298525 Culann - I was not having a pop at you but here is my comeback anyway.

1. There is no doubting we had an easier run to the final than Donegal but we did beat a down team that everyone said would beat us and a the reigning all ireland champions (Just like last year). I think Mayo have been in more finals than anyone bar Kerry in the past 20/25 years so lucky run excuses kind of run out of steam there.

Maigh Eo probably have been in more All Ireland finals over the last 20-25 years bar the Dubs maybe. However, unlike previous years I feel they had an easy enough run to get there this year. I feel they have been there on merit in previous years but not this year.

I'm not having a go but who said An Dún were going to beat you?

2. If you check back I actually said we were a class forward or 2 short of winning an All Ireland and I stand by that. We lost Andy Moran who was a big loss and will have him next year and hopefully one or 3 new faces in the staring line up.

I think you are short a lot more than that.

3. The average age of the Mayo team was 23 last year and while there are no guarantees in life, I would hope we will be there are there about's over the next few years.

True. The potential for a bright future lies ahead but you'll need to find a good few more players, I feel.

4. The first 10mins of all Ireland finals needs to be addressed as we seems to be caught ball hopping and teams know that. Hopefully we can improve that bit more and get lucky along the way for next year. Every team needs luck to win an all Ireland.

I think Dún na nGall could have won by an awful lot more had they needed to. I feel they did not perform as well as they can do on that partyicular day. Apparently McGuinness was not too happy about the first half performance when he had the players in at half time.

5. To sum up - the posts I see that laugh at the thought of Mayo having a hope of winning Sam drive me up the wall. It shouldn't but they do. I feel we get no national respect and you know what, maybe we deserve it until we do win Sam but other counties don't seem to get it. Anyway - RANT OVER

Look, if you are right about Maigh Eo this attitude you feel others have should make winning SAM all ther more sweeter - if Maigh Eo are good enough to do that. Lap it up a mhac. Remind the likes of me of this conversation late September if Maigh Eo have won. But I do not think there is a hope in hell of Maigh Eo lifting SAM anytime soon.

Culann (Dublin) - Posts: 2306 - 16/11/2012 11:40:54    1298557

iF IN DOUBT : Yeah Meredith is back .Check out the Laois Home page on hogan stand

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 818 - 16/11/2012 13:02:38    1298602

Culann
County: Dublin
Posts: 1026

yes in terms of the players giving away things in interviews i agree with you i would have it basicaly as gilroy had by telling them to give nothing away in an interview thats for sure.i dont feel under pillar though the hype amongst the media or the supporters had anything to do with the team not winning i just feel we were beaten by better teams on the day,we have under gilroy apart from 2011 had the same outcome despite not having the hype we lost in 2010 to cork when it was close game there was no hype at all cork were raging favs and it didnt do us any good,this year there was very little hype and we lost to mayo again at same stage it didnt help,i feel lyons was differant as he played to the media himself which didnt send out the right signals to the players,but pillar did not media stuff at all really and he bonded the players with the walking to the hill he played good style of football just wasnt good enough against better teams on the day,he could have had same outcome as gilroy in 2006 had we beat mayo it could have been an all ireland for him in his 4 year term.
i think having the expectation is only a good thing as it means the players know that nothing less will do and makes them pull out more in a game than if they were under no pressure from supporters.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/11/2012 15:00:12    1298688

oh i agree hill it was great for the gaa with pillar as the dubs played very exciting football with high energy and were always in dramatic games or dramatic meltdowns such as the tyrone game....i remember dublin bringing a massive crowd down to longford to play us there was nothing like it.....as for the roll of honour i dont think it holds that much merit in modern football...most of them all irelands were won before world war 2 were they not and everybody is competitive now so but with dublins massive pick and recent success in underage they should be up there yes..just to win it every year is too much of an expectation..a drought as long as the last 1 would be unacceptable though yes

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 16/11/2012 15:33:38    1298709

Defending an All Ireland is proving to be a near impossible task and is probably more so for a team with little recent success (both Dublin and Donegal included). In my view, teams that defend AI's tend to have teams that are out in front of their competitors. I didn't feel Dublin were in that bracket last year and i've seen nothing to date to suggest Donegal are also not in that category of AI winners.

I personally didn't feel Dublin were cut out to defend an AI this year. The team had issues primarily in midfield and the half forward line and I don't think management planned for 2013 in the way i felt they would. In hindsight, Gilroy obviously knew 2012 was his farewell and instead of blooding a new midfielder or two, encouraging the half backs to attack and addressing the reliance upon Alan Brogan, he tried to shore up issues and it inevitably didn't work. But we can have no complaints of a man who delivered an AI.

Gavin now takes over the mantle of a talented team with a young age profile. The above issues still remain and i feel will be addressed including game time for Cluxtons eventual replacement. Previously, i thought Gilroys Dublin would launch a huge campaign this year but its unrealistic to expect an AI in a managers first term. Gavin needs time to assert his will and bed in the tactical changes that he sees fit. This is a process that is generally time consuming.

In any other year where there was a clear team who i felt would need beaten to win an AI i would write off Dublins chances but next years AI should again be fairly open. Cork would be my early favourites, with Donegal, Mayo, Kerry and Dublin all capable. Kildare and Tyrone are someway back but could improve!

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1663 - 16/11/2012 15:34:33    1298710

ffgg
County: Longford
Posts: 1613

1298709
oh i agree hill it was great for the gaa with pillar as the dubs played very exciting football with high energy and were always in dramatic games or dramatic meltdowns such as the tyrone game....i remember dublin bringing a massive crowd down to longford to play us there was nothing like it.....as for the roll of honour i dont think it holds that much merit in modern football...most of them all irelands were won before world war 2 were they not and everybody is competitive now so but with dublins massive pick and recent success in underage they should be up there yes..just to win it every year is too much of an expectation..a drought as long as the last 1 would be unacceptable though yes

yeah i feel had the spring series of been played at that time of pillars management it could have attracted 40-60 thousand crowds its just pity they waited till the recession to try it out.yeah was roasting hot day in pearse park too although i see they still never finished behind the far goal surely ye got enough cash that day haha.well i think it does hold merit as the gaa is nearly 130 years old it doesnt start to count after world war II,well i dont think that would happen in football any side to dominate every year but they should be the expectation of them being there or there abouts every year like this coming year after not winning it this year there will be a hunger and high expectation to get back to the all ireland final again.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/11/2012 15:43:02    1298722

yes but football when you think about it has only got proper competitive on an all ireland basis in the 80s or 90s due to the troubles amongst other things...it is so much more competitive now and all irelands are much harder to win...dublin havent won that many since the war when you look at it so its not fair to demand they win every 2 or 3 years.....the expectation for them to be there or there abouts is fair enough yes its unacceptable for a dublin team not to be there or there abouts...dublin were very silly under pillar though giving interviews and creating hype non stop which they blatantly could not live up to...yeah longford done extremely well that day its a pity the dubs dont travel more as its great for the other counties

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 16/11/2012 15:57:55    1298741

ffgg
County: Longford
Posts: 1620


it was only 6 countys that were hampered before the 80tys and 90tys i wouldnt agree with that its only got comptetitive since then.they werent harder to win in the noughties kerry and tyrone shared them on the same level dublin and kerry shared them in the 70 tys.whats with since the war haha that has no relevance to the gaa roll of honour at all,you could then in turn say sure kerry must not be top force anymore as they havent won an all ireland since 2009 which would be another crazy statement.why isnt it fair to expect it at present we have the players we have the success of 2011 and we have had the under 21 and minor success aswell as the club scene being the most competitive so no reason we should not expect to be winning all irelands.but it wasnt pillar it was lyons that really had that problem,
i dont feel there was much under pillar they managed to keep the whole blue book covered well enough so obviously the camp was tight enough it was more the media themselves then the camp.its down to the lack of big grounds in leinster though i feel gaa should have built portlaoise up to 50 thousand instead of the gaelic grounds which is the biggest waste of money ever,it could host leinster championship matches and also could host alot of big championships for all countys as very neutral spot.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/11/2012 16:27:04    1298763

well you must remember hill connacht were pretty pathetic back then also when dublin and kerry were dominating as was ulster..the war is very relevant as it was ages ago almost 70 years sure even mayo were winning back then...dublin have not won all that much since when you look at it...i dont mean to attack dublin or anything just the expectations are unfair.....i dont buy into the roll of honour that much at all...the roll of honour of the last 20 years is much more important and accurate.....it was competitive in the 00s sure look how good that armagh team was and they only won 1..those tyrone and kerry sides just happened to be 2 of the best gaelic teams ever....it was very competitive below them which wasnt the case in the 70s as kerry steamrolled everybody basically..teams barely had proper training till the 70s

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 16/11/2012 16:50:41    1298783

ffgg
County: Longford
Posts: 1622

1298783
well you must remember hill connacht were pretty pathetic back then also when dublin and kerry were dominating as was ulster..the war is very relevant as it was ages ago almost 70 years sure even mayo were winning back then...dublin have not won all that much since when you look at it...i dont mean to attack dublin or anything just the expectations are unfair.....i dont buy into the roll of honour that much at all...the roll of honour of the last 20 years is much more important and accurate.....it was competitive in the 00s sure look how good that armagh team was and they only won 1..those tyrone and kerry sides just happened to be 2 of the best gaelic teams ever....it was very competitive below them which wasnt the case in the 70s as kerry steamrolled everybody basically..teams barely had proper training till the 70s

its not our fault connaught wasnt good then its not to say dublin and kerry still wouldnt have won all irelands if connaught was as competitive as the rest.
its not relevant though as we had troubles here that would have cost more relevance then world war II so your saying the roll of honour should only count from after world war II,i dont think expectations are unfair we have comepted in last 3 all ireland semi finals the only county to do so and have only once not made the all ireland quarter finals since its inception only one other county has done that.you cannot just start stating roll of honour from world war II or now you say from the last 20 years as it odesnt matter when you win them the fact is we have won them.that armagh team were the same as dublin team under pillar kept winning the province but didnt get as much out of the all ireland series sure there was simliar teams in the 70 tys to armagh in 00s. yes just like dublin and kerry in the 70tys happened to be two of the best football sides ever.thats very unfair to say it wasnt comeptitive in the 70tys as it clearly was you cannot compare training methods now to then as all sports will have improved they will improve again and look back at this period and say the same thing about it as you just said in the 70tys.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/11/2012 17:08:53    1298789

the smaller counties are much more competitive now than ever before....in the 70s the smaller counties were pathetic and had no hope..they were simply whipping boys for the big sides..that dublin team under pillar were no were near as good as that armagh side they were exceptional team for a period of about 3 or 4 years 2002-2006 they suffered the random defeat to fermanagh in 2004 but there was basically nothing between them and tyrone in 2005 while they won in 2002 and lost the final in 2003..dublins best achievement under pillar was perhaps drawing with tyrone in 2005 or else giving kerry a very good test in 2007...i feel the war was very relevant as although we were not in it it still effected us very much there was large emigration during this period along with other factors

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 16/11/2012 17:32:08    1298801

It'll be very, very hard... but I'd hope we could retain it!!! I fancy us for the treble ulster, if we're going to be stopped in Ulster it will be the first round.

up_donegal (Donegal) - Posts: 659 - 16/11/2012 18:39:26    1298828

If Mayo can have a decnt league campaign Id probably take them if I could get them at around 10-1 , by the way can you bet each-way on the all ireland? e.g. If they make the Semi finals or further?

CaisleanCnucha (Dublin) - Posts: 1379 - 16/11/2012 19:07:51    1298833

I reckon Tyrone could be a good outside bet next year. Donegal will not be at the same level as 2012. 1985 is the first final i can remember watchin and in all these years watchin and playin GAA, i have never seen a performance as Donegal gave Cork and Kerry.
The only team that came close to Donegal was tyrone. Im not sayin tyrone will be favs to win Sam, but as they play in the first round, Donegal will have a long road to win Sam.

Outside of Kerry, i would like to see Mayo win sam, but i just cant see. Mayo have one massive performance every year, like beating Tyrone 04, Cork 11, Dublin 12, after that, it seems they get carried away with themselves without there hands on the main prize.

kerryrowz (Kerry) - Posts: 833 - 16/11/2012 20:03:36    1298862

Galway!

Because Alan's got a plan, he's no lucky, lucky man ;)

ahsure. (Galway) - Posts: 1759 - 16/11/2012 20:45:57    1298883

ffgg
County: Longford
Posts: 1625

1298801
the smaller counties are much more competitive now than ever before....in the 70s the smaller counties were pathetic and had no hope..they were simply whipping boys for the big sides..that dublin team under pillar were no were near as good as that armagh side they were exceptional team for a period of about 3 or 4 years 2002-2006 they suffered the random defeat to fermanagh in 2004 but there was basically nothing between them and tyrone in 2005 while they won in 2002 and lost the final in 2003..dublins best achievement under pillar was perhaps drawing with tyrone in 2005 or else giving kerry a very good test in 2007...i feel the war was very relevant as although we were not in it it still effected us very much there was large emigration during this period along with other factors

they mayb be abit more comepetitive how much is debatable but what has made it easier for the kerry in tyrone teams in the 00tys was they got a second chance when beaten with the back door which both used to win all irelands where as the dublin and kerry teams of the 70tys didnt have that luxury.
i wouldnt say they were pathetic meath kildare and offaly all had good sides in that decade.not much changed though as in each province down the years and still today kerry and cork have always been well ahead and still are in munster.they were very simliar pillar got 4 leinster titles in the 4 years and in 06 missed the glorious chance of winning that all ireland,just like armagh were dominant in ulster but only managed the one all ireland with the help of that post.
people have always emigrated and you could look at the present day and see the numbers emigrating and say the same thing so i dont feel its fair to dismiss all irelands won before 1945 as wexford won a four in a row at that time and tipp won a good few also while kerry also won a hatfull.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 17/11/2012 14:21:13    1298977

cant agree with you...pillars team nothing like armagh..pillars team never beat a top side...they lost to mayo in 06 sure they would have been annihilated had they reached the final..armagh in their time either won the yoke got to the final or lost to the eventual winners each time bar 2004 which was one of the bigger gaa upsets...i just dont pass much heed to the roll of honour unless its kerry..its false enough in modern times

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 17/11/2012 15:31:56    1298991

Pillars teams weren't the best but we still gave Armagh(02) Tyrone (05) and Kerry (07) great games plus we should never have lost that Mayo game in 06. Six years later and I'm still sick over that game.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 17/11/2012 16:23:05    1299011

For me its either donegal or cork, simply cause they are best two teams in ireland outside these you would look at tyrone or kerry, mayo like kildare or meath haven't a hope they won't get a easy run like this year. Dublin may come back but you do have to wonder if they get a few injuries in particular to a brogan or roc, would they struggle again ?
So for me its donegal, cork, kerry, tyrone, dublin. In that order. All others are just making up numbers or going for provincial glory.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 17/11/2012 16:47:42    1299024

pillar wasnt in charge v armagh in 2002.....the 1st day against tyrone and the kerry game yes dublins 2 best displays under him

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 17/11/2012 17:26:43    1299041