i also find it exceptionally demeaning and disrespectful to smaller counties

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 20/10/2012 17:06:09    1285925

I wasnt counting the Ea cup or Fai cup.I was just talking about the airtricity league,and rabo games are treated with alot more respect by rugby people than the league is by their Gaa counterparts.
And even if youre just counting the heineken cup it is still 6 games guaranteed.Thats alot when you consider that it is possible win the all ireland hurling title in 4 games

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 20/10/2012 17:07:07    1285928

OK, I'm here !
Let me take different route this time -
The provincial councils will want to keep the status quo on boundaries.
However, I have a solution to counter the provincial imbalance - losing teams in Leinster and Ulster enter the Qualifiers a round later than their small province counterparts. That is, losing QFs, SFs and Finalists enter Qual Rds 2, 3 and 4 versus 1, 2 and 3, respectively. This by the way, is my "24-7" idea described in another way. It's so good, I can't get away from it !

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3293 - 20/10/2012 17:13:23    1285929

ffgg

where you commenting to me as i never put wekaer teams in a differant championship.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 20/10/2012 17:17:07    1285930

joncarter

i wouldnt say putting out a second string team with the idea of laying off your best player for another competition is treating the rabo league with much respect.
yes but for the likes of connaught and zebre whats the point in them playing 6 games to get hammered in most of them.
look at kilkenny in the league they played 7 games and were getting hammered in them it not doing football any good in the county just becuase they were playing more matches.if leitrim were to be in a group with dublin armagh and cork what good would it be getting six games for them as they would already know they are going to get hammered in them

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 20/10/2012 17:23:23    1285935

oh no just in general the idea of a seperate all ireland championship for smaller teams which i have seen suggested in the past disgusts me..i prefer open draw with groups myself

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 20/10/2012 17:25:41    1285937

Kilkenny in football are the exception,not the rule.I wouldnt use them as an example at all,nor would I use the league as a barometer because as i said,so many teams dont take it seriously.Connacht werent getting hammered in rugby games.They had six big games and were well beaten in 5 (they won the other one).It beats getting beaten in only two games, as what happens to alot of counties in the Gaa.As well as this the visit of leinster or Munster in the rabo is treated as a big deal while in Gaa the visit of Kilkenny in the secondary competition is greeted with little more than a shrug of the shoulder.
also its different in that Connacht rugby can play the top teams in europe in the heineken cup (Toulouse were here last year,record crowd in attendance) whereas a team like Sligo/Leitrim/Fermanagh will only rarely play a big team outside of their province in the championship.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 20/10/2012 17:35:36    1285940

your clutching at straws looking to justify connaught as whats the differance in being hammered and been well beaten? is it not the same thing?
about 10 years ago dublin hurlers used to get few hundred at matches in the league but when they played kilkenny at home parnell park always got huge crowd for the visit of kilkenny,the same goes with most counties that the dublin footballers play away,in the o byrne cup this year there was full house in newbridge for dublin v kildare and that was the third competition in the gaa as you like to call them.dublin played mayo in castlebar twice and it brought the mayo crowd out in numbers in fact double the numbers that leinster or munsters appearance in connaught brought out.the league has very much a barometer most teams who have won the all ireland in the last 5 years have all built on having a big run in the league and if you look at the 8 teams in division 1 most people would reckon they are the teams the all ireland is between.dublin beat kerry in killlarney the year after being hammered in croker by them dont tell me that game wasnt abig confidence boost to go down there and turn them over then in 2011 beating kerry again in croke park in the league by a point was very significant to dublin as it gave them the experiance needed to go on and do it again in the all ireland final by yet again a single point.iut was no surprise that dublin having an inconsitent league this year lead to their championship form being very simliar.the only thing the league really lacks is the limelight in the newspapers and television.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 20/10/2012 18:18:43    1285955

I think that using the kilkenny footballers as an example is clutching at straws too.
You said that Connacht were hammered in all 6 games last year.They werent.They gave a presentable account of themselves in all games and actually won one.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 20/10/2012 18:32:04    1285959

hill16no1man
would not agree at all with that point.
league of ireland soccer team plays in the ea sports cup they put out micky mouse teams in that the competition is not taken seriously at all.
the fai cup is barely a step up from that for most teams if they have a tough league game the weekend they will play weekend teams in the fai cup so hardly going all out.then you have a team playing in europe they always field a weakend team the weekend before european game.theres more games in their leagues by virtue of playing each other more times thats all.
The irish sides dont field weakened sides the week before european games as they normally are playing other irish sides before the european games.
for example until this season munster and leinsters 2 rabo games were the weekend before the 1st 2 european games in october and the weekend before the european quarter finals. so that isnt true

hill16no1man
to say in rugby they take rabo league games all seriously is not true leinster play most of their games without any of their best players you could count on one hand the amount of games brian o driscoll will play in that league or any of the other big names.same goes with munster keatley will start most games ahead of o gara who is being rested and the same happened before he arrived with paul warick.if they have heinken cup match the following week all teams put out second string teams to avoid injury again hardly taking the rabo seriously.
Just because the players like sean o brien, brian o driscoll, paul o connell, donnacha ryan dont play most weeks doesnt mean that the provinces dont take the league seriously. If anything the players on the pitch will take the games even more seriously as its a chance for them to show team management that they should be first choice for the big games.
You do realise its the games right before european weekends that are the pro12 games that its most likely that the irish provinces will be full strength
hill16no1man
i do agree the league needs to be spiced up but the idea of playing all four division one matches over friday saturday sunday and monday would give far more exposure to the competition and would be sure to bring in rte and tv3 to screen live games allowing all four channels have one game each over weekend.
Playing all 4 division 1 matches over 4 days shouldnt happen but games should be looked at for friday nights. I disagree with games being played on monday nights. At least with a game on a friday night you can do deals for fans etc to stay the night possibly, its easier as the weekend is then left for players to do their own thing

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/10/2012 18:33:48    1285961

The league lacks more than limelight.Managers and players clearly dont take it as seriously as they could,often making no secret of that fact.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 20/10/2012 18:33:54    1285962

oncarter
County: Galway
Posts: 33

1285959
I think that using the kilkenny footballers as an example is clutching at straws too.
You said that Connacht were hammered in all 6 games last year.They werent.They gave a presentable account of themselves in all games and actually won one.

no what about leitrim,waterford,clare,carlow,offaly,cavan what good would get ahiding in 6 group matches do them to develop it would only do the opposite make people stay away.you said they were well beaten so i asked whats the differance in being well beaten and hammered?

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 20/10/2012 19:03:23    1285979

ormondbannerman

come off it would you if you dont play your best players it means you are putting out a weakend team so if leinster dont play their big guns in the rabo it obviously means they view it as a second rate competition and are saving them which shows a lack of interest in the rabo league.what differance is that to the national league when countys are trying out new players?
and what good did playing week in week out in the rabo do for paul warick? he never got in ahead of o gara when it mattered.
yeah there at full strength the week before but dont play a full strength team they rest them.
you only think friday nights should happen becuase rugby is played on friday nights.
four games four days would give far more exposure.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 20/10/2012 19:09:58    1285983

joncarter

managers dont help it il agree but do you really think they want to lose matches in it over winning them,i could hardly see jack o connor being delighted had kerry lost every league match i dont think the kerry public would like it either they would be baying for blood.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 20/10/2012 19:12:13    1285985

A 10 point defeat in rugby is well beaten,but not a hammering and as for your other point I would argue that if kerry (or anyone else) had a terrible league campaign/relegation it would be forgotten about completely if they won the all ireland.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 20/10/2012 19:17:32    1285988

and if leinster had terrible rabo campaign and won heinken cup it would be forgotten about completly too would it not.
so whats your point

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 20/10/2012 19:21:13    1285991

20/10/2012 19:09:58
hill16no1man
ormondbannerman, come off it would you if you dont play your best players it means you are putting out a weakend team so if leinster dont play their big guns in the rabo it obviously means they view it as a second rate competition and are saving them which shows a lack of interest in the rabo league.what differance is that to the national league when countys are trying out new players?
and what good did playing week in week out in the rabo do for paul warick? he never got in ahead of o gara when it mattered.
yeah there at full strength the week before but dont play a full strength team they rest them.
you only think friday nights should happen becuase rugby is played on friday nights.
four games four days would give far more exposure.
No it means leinster/munster are rotating their players for most games. None of the provinces view the rabo as a 2nd rate comp as its their bread and butter competition that they play week in week out.
I dont only think friday nights because rugby is played friday nights. Friday night games are weekend games and are easier to do as most supporters/players dont have work the next day unlike sunday/monday night games etc where most people would have to work the next day

20/10/2012 19:17:32
joncarter
A 10 point defeat in rugby is well beaten,but not a hammering and as for your other point I would argue that if kerry (or anyone else) had a terrible league campaign/relegation it would be forgotten about completely if they won the all ireland.
A 10 point defeat in rugby isnt well beaten as its only 2/3 scores to make up the difference but it depends on the game and circumstances as to the result.
Yes of course any county will forget about the league if they win the all ireland due to the structure of the season and how the league is finished before the championship starts

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/10/2012 19:29:00    1285998

I think a bad rabo campaign would hurt them more than a bad league campaign would hurt the Gaa boys.Dont forget how p***ed off the Leinster boys were when they lost the rabo final just a week after winning the heineken cup.
If a gaelic team won the all Ireland they probably wouldnt bother playing a league final a few days later.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 20/10/2012 19:36:13    1286002

A ten point rugby defeat is well beaten Ormund.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 20/10/2012 19:37:26    1286003

20/10/2012 19:37:26
joncarter
A ten point rugby defeat is well beaten Ormund.

No it isnt. 2 scores and a team that was 10 points behind is either level or in the lead.
more than 14 points is well beaten as to overturn a 14points or more deficit a team has to score as least 2 converted trys
And its ormond........

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/10/2012 19:45:17    1286009