with the way ive gone today i suppose im just trying to fit in around here.sorry for not being my usual enlightned self.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 12/08/2008 18:04:30    72646

its you talking the trash datona- me being intelligent i think before i post

ball-boy (Mayo) - Posts: 4211 - 12/08/2008 18:07:19    72648

Give it a rest with this blanket defense nonsense. In 2003 an irate tv pundit who couldn't remain objective after seeing his team lose introduced the puke football phrase.
Kerry under paudie o se played wonderfull attacking football. Mickey Harte decided it might be a good idea not to give the kerry forwards time and space (otherwise known as good defending) to help tyrone win the match. There was nothing negative about this, tyrone still played good football going forward and the same in the 2005 final which was a great game.

In a sunday paper spillane is still talking about puke football. Wants to change the rules of football. Suggested 2 major changes: 1. only allowed 2 consequtive handpasses and 2. must keep 6 players in opponents half at all times. The 1st of these might be worth considering but he's having a laugh with the 2nd point.

Kerry are still playing fantastic football but their forwards now expect defenders to "defend" and are on course for 3 in a row because of it. They have dealt with this in the only way you can, on the pitch; but so many people on here seem bitter towards teams (ulster teams in particular) for playing to their strengths to try and win.

Kev_Cork (Cork) - Posts: 24 - 12/08/2008 19:26:55    72706

Fair play to yoy Mugsys_Barber.......You all profess to playing football the way it should be and all this carry-on but the only two challengers to the kingdom of late have been Armagh and Tyrone. Sorry, the only teams of late that have beaten the Kingdom in a final. You all appear to be happy to stand toe to toe with Kerry and even though they always end up pumping yous. Galway were no different on Saturday, Hard luck Galway, Awhk yis are a great team blah, blah, blah.

I totally agree with you...They are all going around in my own County for the last four days, telling each other what great footballers they are...after loosing to Kerry...Scoring 01.16..and still loosing...They make me sick...Fair play to the Ulster Teams..You were able for Kerry....And it was their TALK REP. PAT...SP> that started all this negativity about Ulster Football..........When you loose to Kerry..they keep telling you how nice you are and how good you are, but if you beat them...they try and complain about the way you play....If any one else describes the Galway Team as being Nice...I am going to get sick... Fair play to Ulster...The rest are shaking in their boots when they meet Kerry...My own County actually think their Rightful place is behind Kerry...and give them a good game and play nice football...What a load of BS..Winning is the name of the Game.......ASK anyone from Kerry..

SAMMYTHEBULL (Galway) - Posts: 1646 - 12/08/2008 21:01:36    72750

Tyrone and Armagh actually have contrasting styles

Personally I dont care what is said about Ulster football down South becasue its rubbish.

The pundits down South talk about Tyrone and Armagh like they have the same style of playing. They talk about the uncompromising defences of Ulster like they were spat out of Lough Neagh and spewed over the surrounding counties and is now infecting the rest of Ireland. It is utter drivle

Fact of the matter is Armagh's defence is nothing like Tyrone's. It is tough and physical, anyone who carries the ball inside their half gets a hit, they will wear you down and eventuly wear you out. Bellew and McKeaeny typify Armagh defence. They also have specalist man markers like Andy Mallon for the opposition the fast skillfull forwards
Tyrone defending on the other hand is more speedy and tenacious, the players will swarm the player in posession forcing him to cough up the ball. Also Tyrone defence begins the minute the opposition gets the ball no matter where on the pitch this is. Tyrone also have a selection of man markers such as Ricey or Conor Gormley to take on the skillful players, but Tyrone's style of defence can deal with the skillful players anyway by simply smothering them.
Both teams do take men behind the ball, Armagh I think a little more so than Tyrone but it probably looks like more Tyrone men are behind the ball becasue they are always moving towards the man with the ball in hand. Armagh stand off a little more and hit the man with the ball in hand when he comes to them. this tactic is as much to do with their attacking tactics as defence. Tyrone counter attack at speed leaving the opposition players in their wake. Armagh to isolate their inside forwards and create space in front of them.

Going forward though the teams are very differnet both both will run or handpass the ball out of defence
Armagh though are more gradual in their build up allowing the inside forwards to move into position before pumping the diagonal ball into space who are experts at reading the pass, gaining possesion in space or supplying it to a team mate in possesion and putting the ball over the bar. Players do get isolatd sometimes becasue of their gradual play between the 45s but they tend to muscle their way out of it. The style is very gradual, very rehearsed,very deliberate, very effective.
Tyrone on the other hand come out of defence at speed working the ball up the field as fast as possible, to a scoring position and putting the ball over the bar. The ball carrier can take the ball into a scoring position and score himself, hand pass the ball to a scoring position, through balls from the half forwards, or putting in a high pass to the inside forwards. There is also always a player in support, it is rare for players to get swarmed by the opposition The whole style is alot more opportunistic and varied taking whatever opportunity presents itself.
Also Armagh's game involves alot more aerial manoevers whereas Tyrone play low and fast.

Anyone who reckons that the two teams are similar are very much mistaken. Tyrone and Armagh's current styles are similar to what they have always been, I remember defending with a swarming tactic when I was 13 so its nothing new. I also remember the wrestlers fom Armagh in the championships games of the early 90s

I actaully find the contrasting styles very interesting it is one of the reasons that Tyrone and Armagh matches have been such epics, some of which have ben the greatest games of football ever

omaghjoe (Tyrone) - Posts: 1191 - 12/08/2008 21:36:55    72776

What is he on? Kerry strung about 8+ consecutive handpasses together several times against Galway last weekend. I do think he should go back to being the Eamonn Dunphy of the GAA. I mean who is he fooling asking questions instead of ranting and raving like an amusing fool? Imagine Eamonn Dunphy hosting the premiership...

5wingback (Dublin) - Posts: 118 - 12/08/2008 21:50:40    72787

A good honest post Kev_Cork. How do you fancy your chances against the kingdom in the Semi-final? Hopefully yee can work harder than the Galway defence did at the weekend. Looking forward to a close match this time hopefully, similar to the Munster final and may the best team win.

mugsys_barber (Tyrone) - Posts: 2160 - 12/08/2008 21:56:47    72793

Jeez, Spillane has a lot to answer for!

The irony of this whole arguement is that the whole 'puke football' thing was engineered by a huffy Spillane punditing on the 2003 semi final, when Tyrone adopted a somewhat defensive and frustrating method of play to keep Kerry at bay... This match had been SO hotly anticipated because Tyrone were just as revered for their classic, attacking football as Kerry were and it had been tipped as the game of the trillenium.

But it wasn't.
Except, that is, for us Tyroneoes. :)

Tyrone did what they had to do to win because that is what they wanted more than anything. Can anyone here blame them for that??
Since then, a lot of people seem to have forgotten about how skilful Tyrone actually were in those years. They were awesome.

I personally don't have a problem with blanket defense when it's used 50/50 with an attacking style of play. I'll agree that in parts it has been over-used, but it's not by any stretch of the imagination the most unpleasant thing about football these days. I know Tyrone are no angels, but we are by no means the most sinister/persistent foulers in the country.

I'll agree that there is to a certain extent an anti-ulster brigade in the gaa, although, in fairness, there doesn't seem to be that many of you on these boards. Every message board has it's idiots though. It just wouldn't be the same without them!

I think the whole arguement about the strength of Ulster football is an old one, because all in all, the standard in Ulster this year hasn't been great. In fact, it's been poor. We definitely were a force to be reckoned with though throughout the last 6-7 years. In the midst of our decline, it would appear that the standard in Lenister has steadily improved of late, and good luck to yous! If Tyrone don't win Sam this year, I'd like to see Wexford, Dublin or Cork win it. No harm to Kerry - yous have some team but a change at the top is needed this year.

Babsta (Tyrone) - Posts: 71 - 12/08/2008 21:58:42    72798

The last few threads have made some very good points and is it any wonder Ballboy & some of the Kerry posters get on very well? All they would need is a bucket of water, red noses and a funny car & they could be a circus act. They spew nothing but patronising, sanctimonious drivel which is hilarious to read. They tell us to stay away from their county boards yet go on to other ones to lecture and insult everybody else. Like school bullies they stay together and if anyone dares to challenge their wee enclosed deluded world they try to ridicule them. Well Kerry & Mayo should know by now that Ulster isn't intimidated by that. Kerry folk have always been masters at playing the "Ahh sure boys ye did a grand job, keep it going" as they snigger at the beatings they gave out. They did this with Galway at the weekend and to Mayo & Cork in the last 2 All Irelands. When a couple of Ulster upstarts came along and said "Sod this malarky" and actually dared to beat Kerry the Kingdom just couldn't hack it. Every excuse under the sun was trotted out to moan & whinge at these defeats instead of just plain better football sides and tactics. Since 2002 we have witnessed a carefully contrived campaign to denigrate and badmouth Ulster football, mainly from Kerry and many of it's former players & officials. In 2003 we heard puke football, in 2006 we had nonsense spouted like "a return to football" and "Kerry save the game" when they hammered a weak Mayo side, likewise last year after Cork. It's no wonder some Cork & Galway fans on here have also had enough of this embarrassing head patting from Kerry. The Kingdom has a great history and wonderful talent but the antics of many of their former players, officials and fans these past few years has ensured that a lot of us have lost respect for the county.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 12/08/2008 22:39:52    72840

I totally agree with you...They are all going around in my own County for the last four days, telling each other what great footballers they are...after loosing to Kerry...Scoring 01.16..and still loosing...They make me sick...Fair play to the Ulster Teams..You were able for Kerry....And it was their TALK REP. PAT...SP> that started all this negativity about Ulster Football..........When you loose to Kerry..they keep telling you how nice you are and how good you are, but if you beat them...they try and complain about the way you play....If any one else describes the Galway Team as being Nice...I am going to get sick... Fair play to Ulster...The rest are shaking in their boots when they meet Kerry...My own County actually think their Rightful place is behind Kerry...and give them a good game and play nice football...What a load of BS..Winning is the name of the Game.......ASK anyone from Kerry..

In all fairness though Sammy-Galway are a nice team

kingdomfan (Kerry) - Posts: 393 - 12/08/2008 22:41:05    72841

TO OMAGH JOE
Totally correct re Tyrone having a totally different style from Armagh.
Armagh's game was to hit every opponent you could in possesion or not... it worked on the unwary but teams got tougher and it finally got like in rugby where it is the tacklers not the tackled who lose out in wars of attrition.

Tyrones game is to move the ball fast and avoid the hits and always have plenty of players close to where the ball is, whatever part of the field that may be. So while critics like to point out the blanket defence they are blind to the blanket attack.

BIG SACKS (Tyrone) - Posts: 1681 - 12/08/2008 23:19:31    72884

There you go again Kingdomfan....Prooving yet again..how right I am....oooh Sorry gotta go and get sick...Back later..

SAMMYTHEBULL (Galway) - Posts: 1646 - 12/08/2008 23:25:00    72893

Ulsterman is sounds like you are on the verge throwing out some "soft all-ireland" garbage there. Funny how ulster fans claim kerry fans are arrogant yet they proclaim every all-ireland soft unless a string of ulster teams are disposed of along the way. Thankfully no sensible football person thinks like that. "They only beat Mayo" I often hear. Mayo were far better than any Ulster team the year they reached the '04 and '06 finals. Likewise Cork in '07. This year beating Monaghan and Galway and having Cork and possibly Dublin ahead would be an amazing run to the final. Beating average Ulster teams isn't one of the criteria for winning a credible all-ireland!

scholesy (Kerry) - Posts: 180 - 12/08/2008 23:32:49    72897

Scholesy I wouldnt bother with Ulsterman and his politics garbage. You cant listen to someone from Antrim talking about football or even hurling for that matter.

kingdomfan (Kerry) - Posts: 393 - 13/08/2008 09:46:00    73036

TO BIG SACKS
Good to hear at least one person agrees with me, everyone else in HS seems to accept that Tyrone and Armagh play the same style of football (wether they like the styles or not). Unfortunately people seem to listen to what the pundits say and take it as gospel and analyse what they think, instead of actually watching the teams play and analysing themselves.

TO THE ANTI DEFENCE BRIGADE
Is there anyone who can have a resonable debate about the contrasting styles of football between Tyrone and Armagh?

omaghjoe (Tyrone) - Posts: 1191 - 13/08/2008 10:18:01    73084

omaghjoe

you are 100% correct.

the only similarities between tyrone and armagh is that they both beat kerry to win all-irelands. a certain sunday game panalist took exception to that. the people on this board who rave on about it either dont watch football or just find it easier to take spillanes bitter side, as he is the most decorated player in history who would dare challenge him? in fact who should dare come up with a game plan to challenge kerry?

samin10 (Armagh) - Posts: 2434 - 13/08/2008 10:25:20    73092

SAMIN10
Spot on and now we have established the truth who is going to dare challenge us!

omaghjoe (Tyrone) - Posts: 1191 - 13/08/2008 10:30:34    73097

The concept that gets to me is "WORKRATE".Has it come to this,that we go to a match to see workers at work.We get enough work during the week without paying at the weekend to see more of it. All I want to see is "a good match" and that can come in different guises,whether the teams are from the North,South,East or West. You can have a bad match between"'good " teams and a good match between so-called "bad" teams.

worple (Roscommon) - Posts: 351 - 13/08/2008 10:57:32    73127

Worple, football is all about working. The team who works hardest and is hungriest usually comes out victorious. Working together is such a fundamental aspect of any team whether in sport or not. Personally the ugliest sight for me in football is a player being dispossed after taking far too much out of the ball and showing off and then proceeding to stand on with his hands on his hips giving out rather than chasing back and trying to regain possession. For me i gain my enjoyment on a football field by being a winner. After slogging through training 3/4 times a week, there is nothing more satisfying than standing shoulder to shoulder with a man who has put in the same effort as you and has suffered on the bad nites.

Rio Bingo (Tyrone) - Posts: 788 - 13/08/2008 11:23:04    73168

Puke analysis/Blanket BS/subjective defence Its interesting where these terms Blanket Defence and Puke football came from. Puke football as we know originated from a very subjective commmentator on the day his county were humbled in Croke Park. People with little or no intellect but oozing frustration have used this word for their own ends. Have many of these people examined the game were this term originated from ? On that day Kerry quite simply lacked the bottle for championship football and Tyrone as Harte called it played their best half of football ever in Croke Park(Pre 2005 final). What Pat Spillane failed to identify that day was the lack of hunger and passion from his native county. Even one kerry spectator attempted to attack the kerry manager, an interesting development for a county we have been lead to believe were cheated on that day and beaten by underhand tactics. The term puke football is like the word terrorist, who creates such a term and for what purposes do they use it ? (people who have subscribed to the puke football thesis probably wont be able to follow that bit) When kerry use the tactic of getting men behind the ball and hitting teams on the counter attack it is called glorious free flowing football. When man united do it in soccer it is called the man utd way and is adored. When Tyrone and Aramgh do it, it leads to uproar. If it was not for these counties Kerry would be on course for five n a row. For those of us out there who enjoy football objective commentary stick with BBC championship coverage were games are analysed objectively, and for those unable to form their own opinions enjoy the subjective Sunday game and the BLANKET propaganda. Goebbels would be proud .

bogboy (Tyrone) - Posts: 163 - 13/08/2008 11:58:55    73236