Didnt Meath beat Kerry by a huge Margin in the early Noughties, perhaps Kerry should have been forced down to a junior competion, by your logic?

ochonlir (Cavan) - Posts: 4343 - 04/06/2012 20:50:42    1186953

04/06/2012 20:27:37
51longago
County: Mayo

I wonder how many more hammerings does Mayo have to suffer from Kerry before it finally deflates Them?

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3724 - 04/06/2012 20:55:33    1186961

Leave it well alone. Alright the way it is...

DUB1 (Dublin) - Posts: 5583 - 04/06/2012 20:57:08    1186963

Think the question is for weaker counties would they prefer championship as it is with always the chance of maybe one giant killing or possibly a provincial final appearance to dream off,or a league structure where they dont play the stronger counties only teams of their own ability and then a chance of promotion where you might get a year or two with the stronger counties and hope to use that to help them.
The results at the moment are no different than they have been for the last 40years. leinster nearly always dublin ,meath offaly now kildare have swapped with offaly to a degree. The weaker counties still didnt win anything.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 04/06/2012 21:15:56    1186989

Ochonlir,
You reckon multiple All Ireland winners Meath beating the most successful county in football history is comparable to the situation where my own county would receive a desperate stuffing were they to meet any of the top teams in the country. For Carlow insert any number of counties around the country that are simply not equipped to take on the bigger counties unless say some sort of transfer system was in place and we both know that only works in one direction don't we.
As I said earlier, I can't understand any Dublin opposition to this, a you still won't be traveling for games and should be making a semi every year as an absolute minimum anyway. Doesn't really affect you but to say it's grand as it is? A joke.

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 04/06/2012 21:17:08    1186991

bosco, the path longford are taking could very well lead to a leinster title in the next 5 year, they have focused on the league and next year will play out of division2 this will improve them even further, laois beat dublin on their way to a leinster title as did westmeath, the size of a county is an issue i agree on that, but that just means you probably can't be consistently strong over a long period like say dublin or cork.

one of the main reasons smaller counties don't do well is that they approach games the wrong way, carlow will play meath next week and im sure we will try match them point for point just as louth did yesterday against dublin, but sometimes you have to face the fact that the team you are playing are superior and your gameplan must be made accordingly

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1711 - 04/06/2012 21:28:32    1186998

Well Barowsider,
it's 9 years since Laois won the Leinster and one less since Westmeath did it. Both on the back of a few very good years at underage which hasn't been even nearly replicated since. Longford have no hope of winning Leinster in the next 5 years as both Kavanagh and Barden the only two forwards they had yesterday will be gone by then and it's highly unlikely they will replace them and find a couple more as good besides.Would love to see them do it but can't see it. Things have moved on a fair bit since 2003/4 and the gap has widened I think.
Expect no tight games with the top teams for a few weeks yet at least, hope Carlow make a liar out of me but the sheer inevitability of it year after year is turning me right off the county game. There's no one at the games either. Looks cat.

Bosco (Carlow) - Posts: 664 - 04/06/2012 21:59:32    1187029

For God's sake why are the public so insistent on changing gaelic football. If it isn't changing the league it's introducing new rules to counteract this and that and now change the championship!!
The qualifiers where introduced to give the weaker counties a second chance but all it has done is give the stronger counties a chance as if they have an off day then it's ok as they can win easily through the qualifiers and still get to the quarters. The championship in the old format was where it should be now, one defeat and your out!!
If we move to a tiered system the teams that are in the top tier will stay there and move away from the rest, the weaker counties will never get up to the level of winning sam again IMO. People talk about weaker counties in todays language but were Cavan, Louth, etc. always weak, No. and if the system stays as is they have a chance to come good again, maybe not for 20 years or more but will come good. If we change the system to this tiered system I doubt that will happen.
Would be weaker counties be happy playing for a second or third grade AI, would it carry any worth. I think the magic of playing for SAM would be gone to too many counties to make this change.
Would the FA in England allow just the top two leagues in England to play for the FA Cup, Imagine the uproar!!

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1677 - 05/06/2012 09:33:36    1187054

"I wonder how many more hammerings does Mayo have to suffer from Kerry before it finally deflates Them?"

Not sure what you're getting at, we have lost to Kerry in three finals, beaten comprehensively by a better team in 04 and 06, we gave it a rattle in 97 but mfitz was the difference, we did beat them in an ai semi final the year previous btw.

All that means nothing to the present Mayo team, they beat Kerry in league semi this year and beat Cork in ai qf last year, we're in a happy place, deflated is not a word you would associate with Mayo football at the moment, optimistic/looking forward maybe, cant wait to get out and get back to croker where we belong.


Obviously the suggestion of a second tier championship has hit a nerve with some, some people cannot deal with reality, that is the problem here.

There would be some sacrifices of course, thats life, if you want to achieve the best you have to make sacrifices. We need big games, we need the big sides competing aginst one another, we need bigger crowds. All this can be achieved by putting the provincial system to bed and establishing a two tier championship.

No imagination some of ye, Mayo v Leitrim in castlebar in a few weeks time, there will be 15k max with a one sidded drubbing compare that to lets say Mayo v Dublin in castlebar as an opener, 35k sell out.....Tyrone v Kerry on a sat evening in omagh, Meath v Kildare , you get the picture, so much better than what we have today surely you can see that.

51longago (Mayo) - Posts: 2981 - 05/06/2012 12:35:44    1187199

The championship in its current format needs a facelift and those who think it doesn't are in complete denial.

and 51longago gives a good example of the games we would love to see each week.

BigAl (Monaghan) - Posts: 31 - 05/06/2012 14:52:10    1187350

As a Louth fan Sunday was embarrasing but should be taken into context. Dublin are the AI champs and were facing a Louth team who since the Leinster final of 2010 have lost Brian White, John O'Brien(an All star nominee), Mick Fanning, Eamonn McAuley and Shane Lennon, while of the current team Brian Donnelly left the panel before the ch'ship started. Louth were bever going to win on Sunday but with these players we would of been more competitive. I think its silly talking about two tier championships because of one result, dont forget Dublin beat Westmeath by 4-26 to 0-11 in 2009 and there was no talk that day of changing the ch'ship format. Even if the format was changed, teams would still be hammered in games, look at the Hurling, in the Nicky Racard semi final Louth beat donegal by 3-19 to 0-8 a few weeks ago. Its up to counties to get up to the standard of other teams.

PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1664 - 05/06/2012 15:38:13    1187408

04/06/2012 20:57:08
DUB1
County: Dublin
Posts: 2941

1186963
Leave it well alone. Alright the way it is...

It's not alright the way it is but I don't see the point to discuss it. Nothing will happen.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9003 - 05/06/2012 16:16:38    1187434

05/06/2012 12:35:44
51longago
County: Mayo
Posts: 1458

1187199


--------------------------
It's clear as day what i'm getting at. Mayo have suffered as many heavy defeats as anyone but it hasn't deflated them as they dusted themselves down and went at it again. I asked to define weaker counties... so your logic says we need to change the format to suit the bigger sides? who's to say the better teams today will still be good in 4 or 5 years time?

Crowds are down across the country (ticket prices one of the reason) Only 20,000 Dubs traveled to their home game at the weekend for their population that's a very small %. Your not living in the real world if you think a huge crowd would travel to McHale park for early round championship game. AI Semi finals (involving Dublin) & All Ireland final are only sell outs nowadays no type of format change will ever change that.

P.S leitrim v Mayo game will be "one sidded drubbing" some turn around for a poster that thought Roscommon would beat Mayo last year! maybe because London brought Mayo to extra time or in 2010 a Div 4 team Longford knocked Mayo out of the championship.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3724 - 05/06/2012 16:35:41    1187455

Anyone remember the Tommy Murphy Cup? The 'weaker' counties don't want this, they want to be involved in the real thing. Just because there is currently very few teams in Leinster capable of challenging Dublin does not mean there is a major issue with the championship format.

Munster has never been competitive, but I don't see any issues with the Connacht or Ulster championships. Every team (bar London) has at least contested a provincial final in the last 11 years, and this is despite Tyrone/Armagh, and Galway/ Mayo dominance. Leitrim may or may not take a heavy beating in a few weeks time, but as London showed last year, and Longford the year before, this may not happen. Thats the glory of the championship in its current format

petejoeduff (Donegal) - Posts: 329 - 05/06/2012 17:33:08    1187535

@Bosco,
agree with you, a proper A and B championship needs to be introduced in football. it's gone nearly as bad as hurling now, for Sam read Dub, Kerry or Cork, for Liam read Tipp or Kilkenny

festy_o_semtex (UK) - Posts: 67 - 05/06/2012 19:55:08    1187679

05/06/2012 19:55:08
festy_o_semtex
County: UK
Posts: 34

1187679
@Bosco,
agree with you, a proper A and B championship needs to be introduced in football. it's gone nearly as bad as hurling now, for Sam read Dub, Kerry or Cork, for Liam read Tipp or Kilkenny

Nonsense Tipp,Kilkenny are miles ahead of the rest in Hurling. In football Dublin reached their first AI final for 16 years last Sept,Kerry have plenty of 30 year olds with even Tipp better than them at underage level & Cork could be back this year but they were well beaten by average Mayo team last year.

With the right tactics game plans the like's of Donegal,Kildare,Tyrone,Galway etc could win the football All Ireland this summer.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3724 - 05/06/2012 20:17:06    1187700

feisty o semtex

You are talking sense. but a lot of people see it as tramping on their sacred cow , the championship, and they are so blinkered they will never see it. Hurling and Hurling people is a good example on how it should be done. Yes, the AI is between the top 4 or 5 teams at the moment. but just look at the quality of games here, and the sheer entertainment is fantastic I would go anywhere in the country to see say Tipp play Kilkenny (and have done) Another thing , why is it that the Hurling rules have only needed slight adjustment while football (which is also0 between 5 or 6 counties) are constantly changing theirs making it a nightmare for both players and Referees

8596 (Armagh) - Posts: 30 - 05/06/2012 20:57:33    1187758

The main problems are that Leinster is too big but bar (Dub, Mth and Kild) is full of weak teams, Ulster is fine size wise but too has very weak teams, Connaught as well is too too small but is competitive and Munster is too small and has two of the best teams in the country in it. So yes, the current provincial system is flawed. But its flawed because GAA teams are decided upon county boundaries. Its no coincidence that the vast majority of the weak teams, especially in the south (republic) have very small populations. I do not think this can be changed unless counties merged and I doubt this will happen.

It is possible to get rid of the provincials but by doing so you take a huge risk in terms of the potential damage incurred if the new system did not work. In that light, the GAA will in my view never scrap the provincial unless attendances plummet. The solution? Well you probably try make things more competitive. But by doing so the weaker counties remain weak. Even if you had a north, south, east, west system you cannot solve the munster problem. Putting wexford, laois into munster may mean an extra game or so but either Cork and Kerry will still win every year. You cannot solve the leinster problem either as you can only hope kildare and meath come up and challenge Dublin again. You can potentially put Donegal into Connaught to add competition but you still do nothing for Leitrim, Roscommon etc.

The main issue is that any new system will be full of problems and will not solve the weak county (of which there are many) issue. If you tier the championship the likelihood is that it will not be taken seriously and will be scrapped.

The reality is that if fairness and equality was ever to come into gaelic sports you need not to scrap the provincial system, you need to scrap the COUNTY system. You need to draw proper lines of division where counties with the populations of Dublin, Cork, Galway etc are broken up and those of 30 odd thousand such as Leitrim, Carlow and Longford are disbanded; and re-drawed where they at least have a demographic status relative to their competitors.

But the above again is fantasy, it will not happen. Its a utopia scenario that goes against everything that the GAA has developed over its entire history. If my county were dissolved i would not follow gaelic games. The simplest and probably most beneficial solution is to try close the gap in at least a half dozen more counties. We need to promotion, resources and development and continued improvement in counties like Antrim, Limerick, Tipperary, Wexford and a couple more to make provinces competitive. That in my view is the only way!

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1663 - 05/06/2012 21:58:54    1187829

Re-aligning the provinces to 8 teams each would at least ensure that every team has to play the same amount of games to win their province. And yes your still going to have the top teams inflicting heavy defeats to weaker teams but I think your going to get that anyway no matter what is done.

Take Louth for instance. They have played 2 games and are still only in Round 1 of the Qualifiers. Sligo have played no games and if they lose at the weekend they go into Round 2 of the Qualifiers. Re-aligning the provinces creates a fairer system.

BigAl (Monaghan) - Posts: 31 - 06/06/2012 09:53:01    1187899

Take Louth for example...should have won leinster in 2010! Do you think after a heavy defeat to dublin this year would this thread would exist if they had?

pigonastick (Dublin) - Posts: 487 - 06/06/2012 10:16:45    1187928